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  1. Hello,

    1- people who author blurays, they author it to give best quality available regardless how high the bitrate, (25GB/50GB) ... so on bluray we have a big files with bitrates maximum 49 Mbit/sec (1080p)
    2- Rippers tends to use x264 2pass encoding ... As I understand, 2 pass encoding, is just scanning the file to adjust the video quality by calculating file parameters by scanning proceeding of the video (video frames which comes later) ...

    I do have an idea I hope that someone verify it, or it's possibilities ...

    1- What happened, if some ripper, rip the whole bluray and scale it down from 50GB to DVD9 for example, that would including, extras and menus and etc ... Would then the bluray would play normally on any bluray??

    2- If the Bitrate viewer is capable to estimate the bitrates of a media file (m2ts in that case) ...
    And now the proceedings is available through that tool, it can't be scaled down ... so I think if the m2ts file size is X GB -> Y Mbit/sec
    By scaling down to 1/10 it will be X/10 GB -> Y/10 Mbit/sec? ... OR optimizing is distributing the bitrate more on the frames?
    [knowing and according to note 1, already the bluray authoring company is made those bitrate for best quality]??
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  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    1. It will play normally on all blu-ray players that support blu-ray on dvdr. Many does support that. You can shrink with for example bdrebuilder.
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    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    1- people who author blurays, they author it to give best quality available regardless how high the bitrate
    That's a rather optimistic view of the world.

    If you rip a movie using h.264 down to the size of a DVD9 a blu ray player probably would be able to play it back, assuming you burnt that 8gig encode onto a another blu ray, since the DVD specs don't support h.264 and no player is obliged to do anything that's not within specs.

    Is there any specific Blu Ray player you're asking about?
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  4. Thanks for the reply, but I was talking about the quality here, I'm not talking about the size only, The example of DVD9 size was just an example ... I do a lot of research and actually, you never imaged how media company is playing with people by those shitty standards they give ... Bluray and DVD ))
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    Watchable quality is subjective, be more specific as to what you're asking.
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  6. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    1- people who author blurays, they author it to give best quality available regardless how high the bitrate
    That's a rather optimistic view of the world.

    If you rip a movie using h.264 down to the size of a DVD9 a blu ray player probably would be able to play it back, assuming you burnt that 8gig encode onto a another blu ray, since the DVD specs don't support h.264 and no player is obliged to do anything that's not within specs.

    Is there any specific Blu Ray player you're asking about?
    Well ... I was talking about bluray real authors studios, sony for example ... not those who rip or copy blurays ... And that's a 100% truth about them ... They remaster movies in order to give the hightest quality possible regardless of the size ..

    Remark: I didn't mean I will burn it on DVD9 as a standard I refer to DVD9 as DVD9-R disc. ...
    Last edited by zeusfriends; 4th Nov 2014 at 10:25. Reason: Remark:
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  7. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Watchable quality is subjective, be more specific as to what you're asking.
    Well . For years and years, media corporates illusion us that DVD as a standard, only contain mpeg2 video for example, while I know that it can also have h264 that because they forced hardware companies to make them players that only work to MPEG2 ... while, on the otherside, UMD movies for playstation, they are the first trial for bluray and they use h264 (AVC) with low profile ... I think that Matroska was the first serious attempt to get out of that box ...
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    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    2- Rippers tends to use x264 2pass encoding ...
    That's not technically correct. Technically speaking "ripping" ONLY means the process of getting contents off a CD, DVD or BD disc and copying them to a hard drive, decrypting if necessary. That's all it means. Now a lot of people use the term to mean "rip and convert" or just "convert" but around here we don't do this, so if you want to talk here, you need to use the right term. You are talking about converting.

    I have absolutely no idea what your second question means nor does apparently anybody else. Others answered your first question.

    Every studio does not "remaster movies in order to give the hightest quality possible regardless of the size". In the USA this is mostly true, although some companies just put out single layer BluRays for older movies, which is not "the highest quality possible" because they would be using dual layer discs for those unless the movie is too short to fit on a dual layer BD disc even at the highest bit rate.
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  9. Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post


    1- people who author blurays, they author it to give best quality available regardless how high the bitrate, (25GB/50GB) ... so on bluray we have a big files with bitrates maximum 49 Mbit/sec (1080p)
    Not always true. There are a lot of crappy BD releases out there

    Other factors come into decision making as well. Often studio decides to throw in a gazillion audio tracks, leaving 15-16Mb/s or some suboptimal bitrate for the video.

    And "maximum" bitate isn't the same thing as "average" bitrate. And in the BD sense, "maximum" bitrate has a specific meaning as well. It's the rate at which data can enter the buffer



    1- What happened, if some ripper, rip the whole bluray and scale it down from 50GB to DVD9 for example, that would including, extras and menus and etc ... Would then the bluray would play normally on any bluray??
    Not menus. Very complicated re-authoring job
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  10. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    2- Rippers tends to use x264 2pass encoding ...
    That's not technically correct. Technically speaking "ripping" ONLY means the process of getting contents off a CD, DVD or BD disc and copying them to a hard drive, decrypting if necessary. That's all it means. Now a lot of people use the term to mean "rip and convert" or just "convert" but around here we don't do this, so if you want to talk here, you need to use the right term. You are talking about converting.

    I have absolutely no idea what your second question means nor does apparently anybody else. Others answered your first question.

    Every studio does not "remaster movies in order to give the hightest quality possible regardless of the size". In the USA this is mostly true, although some companies just put out single layer BluRays for older movies, which is not "the highest quality possible" because they would be using dual layer discs for those unless the movie is too short to fit on a dual layer BD disc even at the highest bit rate.

    Because it's a company and tends to make profit, the project plan tends to till how many blurays will be used, I remember when I used to buy 3D bluray it used to be 1 disc for 2D and another disc for 3D, and in order to let the cost down, they invented MVC codec so they use both 2D-3D on the same disc
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  11. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post


    1- people who author blurays, they author it to give best quality available regardless how high the bitrate, (25GB/50GB) ... so on bluray we have a big files with bitrates maximum 49 Mbit/sec (1080p)
    Not always true. There are a lot of crappy BD releases out there

    Other factors come into decision making as well. Often studio decides to throw in a gazillion audio tracks, leaving 15-16Mb/s or some suboptimal bitrate for the video.

    And "maximum" bitate isn't the same thing as "average" bitrate. And in the BD sense, "maximum" bitrate has a specific meaning as well. It's the rate at which data can enter the buffer



    1- What happened, if some ripper, rip the whole bluray and scale it down from 50GB to DVD9 for example, that would including, extras and menus and etc ... Would then the bluray would play normally on any bluray??
    Not menus. Very complicated re-authoring job
    And the bluray is not maximum bit rate, maximum bitrate used only on some frames, not throughout the whole disk ... average bitrate, is just adding the whole 1 fps bitrate and divide that over the length of the file ...

    I guess yes because on bit level, mpls, is just like playlist it contains only timecodes and jump codes ... jump codes will not be touched as the titles exists and time codes could be marked in the re-encoding (scaling down) ... (using handbreak for example)
    Last edited by zeusfriends; 4th Nov 2014 at 10:57.
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    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    Well ... I was talking about bluray real authors studios, sony for example ... not those who rip or copy blurays ... And that's a 100% truth about them ... They remaster movies in order to give the hightest quality possible regardless of the size ..
    I took the first Sony movie I could find and had a look at it, Labyrinth. The MKV has an overall bitrate of 29.1 Mbps, and that's after it had been remuxed to MKV and had all the miscellaneous audios removed, so I'll give you that.

    MPEG2 was chosen as the standard for DVD because that was the best, most established codec available at the time which had affordable hardware that could process it. The point of a DVD is that you buy it, put it in a player and it plays 100% of the time, which wouldn't be the case if they just changed the specs every time some new wiz-bang codec came along.

    The thing with Matroska at the moment is that they're too afraid to do anything. Every time they make even the smallest change a bunch of players go to hell. They did make provisions for the changing of specifications but most players just ignored them. Just the recent additions of Track Statistics Tags brought down at least one player and rendered the only MKV Tagging program I've found completely useless.
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  13. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post

    MPEG2 was chosen as the standard for DVD because that was the best, most established codec available at the time which had affordable hardware that could process it. The point of a DVD is that you buy it, put it in a player and it plays 100% of the time, which wouldn't be the case if they just changed the specs every time some new wiz-bang came along.
    Yes the reliability is paramount

    And UHD/4K BD will be using HEVC, that will probably be the best, most established codec available at the time as well



    The thing with Matroska at the moment is that they're too afraid to do anything. Every time they make even the smallest change a bunch of players go to hell. They did make provisions for the changing of specifications but most players just ignored them. Just the recent additions of Track Statistics Tags brought down at least one player and rendered the only MKV Tagging program I've found completely useless.
    I remember at one point there were plans for other features like menus etc... That would have been awesome even if it was limited support...



    To be fair, there is only 1 person running the show, and he does it in his spare time. It's a lot of work and debugging, testing.

    Then you look at some projects like ffdshow in the past or ffmpeg currently , which are bloody messes of code and hasty patches because "there are too many cooks in the kitchen"
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  14. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    Well ... I was talking about bluray real authors studios, sony for example ... not those who rip or copy blurays ... And that's a 100% truth about them ... They remaster movies in order to give the hightest quality possible regardless of the size ..
    I took the first Sony movie I could find and had a look at it, Labyrinth. The MKV has an overall bitrate of 29.1 Mbps, and that's after it had been remuxed to MKV and had all the miscellaneous audios removed, so I'll give you that.

    MPEG2 was chosen as the standard for DVD because that was the best, most established codec available at the time which had affordable hardware that could process it. The point of a DVD is that you buy it, put it in a player and it plays 100% of the time, which wouldn't be the case if they just changed the specs every time some new wiz-bang codec came along.

    The thing with Matroska at the moment is that they're too afraid to do anything. Every time they make even the smallest change a bunch of players go to hell. They did make provisions for the changing of specifications but most players just ignored them. Just the recent additions of Track Statistics Tags brought down at least one player and rendered the only MKV Tagging program I've found completely useless.

    In my opinion, only my opinion, codec makers, should union and make an OS just like android, and make manufactures use it .. I can see that Android boxes now use such stratgies, for example, I have minix 8x-h with xbmc and work great but in the same time, i do have western digital media hub, and i must admit playing avc on such (wd) is more efficient and beautiful that minix! ...
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  15. Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post

    In my opinion, only my opinion, codec makers, should union and make an OS just like android, and make manufactures use it .. I can see that Android boxes now use such stratgies, for example, I have minix 8x-h with xbmc and work great but in the same time, i do have western digital media hub, and i must admit playing avc on such (wd) is more efficient and beautiful that minix! ...
    One can dream, but reality is there are competing interests, strategic advantages for keeping closed or tightly controlled platforms, $, licensing fees ....

    "Codec makers" are severely handicapped in what they can do, because of MPEG-LA which holds patents for just about everything, every idea related to video.
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  16. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post

    MPEG2 was chosen as the standard for DVD because that was the best, most established codec available at the time which had affordable hardware that could process it. The point of a DVD is that you buy it, put it in a player and it plays 100% of the time, which wouldn't be the case if they just changed the specs every time some new wiz-bang came along.
    Yes the reliability is paramount

    And UHD/4K BD will be using HEVC, that will probably be the best, most established codec available at the time as well



    The thing with Matroska at the moment is that they're too afraid to do anything. Every time they make even the smallest change a bunch of players go to hell. They did make provisions for the changing of specifications but most players just ignored them. Just the recent additions of Track Statistics Tags brought down at least one player and rendered the only MKV Tagging program I've found completely useless.
    I remember at one point there were plans for other features like menus etc... That would have been awesome even if it was limited support...



    To be fair, there is only 1 person running the show, and he does it in his spare time. It's a lot of work and debugging, testing.

    Then you look at some projects like ffdshow in the past or ffmpeg currently , which are bloody messes of code and hasty patches because "there are too many cooks in the kitchen"
    I guess that UHD/4K approch will be completely failure for many reasons, out of United states, there's no rooms for bigger screens, so using 46" to see a 4K scaled movie is useless/exactly like 3D .... look for titles released in 2014 how many released in 3D ... I guess not much! ... So to me it's total failure!!
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  17. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post

    In my opinion, only my opinion, codec makers, should union and make an OS just like android, and make manufactures use it .. I can see that Android boxes now use such stratgies, for example, I have minix 8x-h with xbmc and work great but in the same time, i do have western digital media hub, and i must admit playing avc on such (wd) is more efficient and beautiful that minix! ...
    One can dream, but reality is there are competing interests, strategic advantages for keeping closed or tightly controlled platforms, $, licensing fees ....

    "Codec makers" are severely handicapped in what they can do, because of MPEG-LA which holds patents for just about everything, every idea related to video.
    Well ... I'm almost 40 years old, so, I remember when I was listening to PCM music, each is 60 MB ... And I was dreaming that humans could find a more efficient way and they did it, mp3 and JPEG was like magic ... usually it starts with dreams, and at the end it happens ... right?
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  18. Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post

    I guess that UHD/4K approch will be completely failure for many reasons, out of United states, there's no rooms for bigger screens, so using 46" to see a 4K scaled movie is useless/exactly like 3D .... look for titles released in 2014 how many released in 3D ... I guess not much! ... So to me it's total failure!!
    Ah but you assume people are completely rational in their decision making and purchasing decisions. That's not how things work in reality

    UHD/4K will succeed, unlike 3D which was a few times fad.

    Price , by far , is the most important factor in decision making purchases. Already prices have dropped astronomically on displays. We saw the same thing with HDTVs. Phones, cameras are already recording UHD/4K (although not real high quality lines of resolution type 4K)
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  19. My main goal here is to make a solution to scale down the bluray to be ripped and re-encoded to fit a DVD9 so at least it would be easier to download and share online, I guess there's always something missing when I download a movie online with a great video quality but in the same time, it lack of interactivity a menus and so, so if I have a bluray player I can't watch the movie!!
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  20. Making backups for BD with menus have always been a problem . A lot of the "fancy" menus use BD-J (java) which are very complex
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    Maybe you should rephrase that. You're not legally allowed to provide blu ray rips for download on the internet, Videohelp may be the place to learn how to rip the discs, but we're not pirates and we only do it for personal use.
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  22. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post

    I guess that UHD/4K approch will be completely failure for many reasons, out of United states, there's no rooms for bigger screens, so using 46" to see a 4K scaled movie is useless/exactly like 3D .... look for titles released in 2014 how many released in 3D ... I guess not much! ... So to me it's total failure!!
    Ah but you assume people are completely rational in their decision making and purchasing decisions. That's not how things work in reality

    UHD/4K will succeed, unlike 3D which was a few times fad.

    Price , by far , is the most important factor in decision making purchases. Already prices have dropped astronomically on displays. We saw the same thing with HDTVs. Phones, cameras are already recording UHD/4K (although not real high quality lines of resolution type 4K)
    I'm talking about numbers and statistic and culture, for example, in USA usually people tends to live in homes, which provide them a space to make a place for such UHD 4K tv with homes theatre and speakers, that's a culture, that's not the case in Europe which people lives in apartments, so a maximum of 40" would be more than enough ... and so in Asia and Africa ...
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  23. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Making backups for BD with menus have always been a problem . A lot of the "fancy" menus use BD-J (java) which are very complex
    Actually and logically it should be not, because simply I'm talking about talking about the whole Disc not part of the disc ...
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  24. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Maybe you should rephrase that. You're not legally allowed to provide blu ray rips for download on the internet, Videohelp may be the place to learn how to rip the discs, but we're not pirates and we only do it for personal use.
    Re-encoding to lower bitrates, is sort of backup too, it's simply like you have a file and compress it using winrar, or 7zip, you just compress the file using a lower technique, because quality was never an issue of copyrights

    Because if quality is a matter of a copyright then I should accuse companies that bluray material is not good for my eyes, and they sell us a bad matterial quality
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  25. Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Making backups for BD with menus have always been a problem . A lot of the "fancy" menus use BD-J (java) which are very complex
    Actually and logically it should be not, because simply I'm talking about talking about the whole Disc not part of the disc ...
    Uh...Ok....PM me when you finish writing the program
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  26. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Making backups for BD with menus have always been a problem . A lot of the "fancy" menus use BD-J (java) which are very complex
    Actually and logically it should be not, because simply I'm talking about talking about the whole Disc not part of the disc ...
    Uh...Ok....PM me when you finish writing the program
    well ... I had spend a lot of time in the past in order to discover the UMD format, and I did, I put somewhere a program that can decompile the Java scripts for menus, (de-compiler as a java code) ... I don't know where I put it, but I know that SONY (since it's the main implemtation leader) would do it in the same way ... And actually, all you do is to take the mpls is the same from the disk ... With the re-encoded video, and find a way to build the CLP file from the re-encoded video (using something called "UMDTools" ... Remember it?)

    Or if you have more time, use sony vegas pro ...
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    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    ...fit a DVD9 so at least it would be easier to download and share online...
    Who's talking about quality?

    -Edit- Or is this theoretical, why don't they do this???
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  28. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Originally Posted by zeusfriends View Post
    ...fit a DVD9 so at least it would be easier to download and share online...
    Who's talking about quality?

    -Edit- Or is this theoretical, why don't they do this???
    downloading a 8.2GB online for a movie, would be easier for me I don't have that fast speed at home, people in USA would download the whole bluray at home, but most of them never heard about torrents
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    iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Netflix...

    What exactly is this thread about?
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  30. Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Netflix...

    What exactly is this thread about?
    My main goal here is to make a solution to scale down the bluray to be ripped and re-encoded to fit a DVD9 so at least it would be easier to download and share online, I guess there's always something missing when I download a movie online with a great video quality but in the same time, it lack of interactivity a menus and so, so if I have a bluray player I can't watch the movie!!
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