Smart rendering with Sony Vegas

[twinaleblood]

Hi there guys. Trying to solve a problem with Sony Vegas to no avail, hoping some of you have good advices.

This is the project: i have a concert on two Mpeg2 files (Pal, 4:3, 6000 kbps) sourced from two mini DV tapes. The audio of these files sucks, so i'm using Sony Vegas to sync them to a better audio track from a different source.

There's a little gap between the two mpeg files (due to tape switching) that i filled with a small clip ripped from a YouTube video (it's just a small portion, less than a minute i think, so i don't mind about the lower quality).

The thing is: I'd like Vegas to do a smart render, reencoding only the small YouTube part and the fade in/out i added at the beginning and the end. I enabled the smart render option in the preferences and i set the rendering options with the same specifics of the 2 main mpeg files (again, 4:3, Pal, 6000 kbps), but when It starts to process, the rendering is very long, reencoding the whole thing.

Any hints?

[aedipuss]

afaik ALL footage has to be exactly the same single type DV or MGEG-2 for smart rendering to work. then only frames that have effects, compositing, or transitions applied will be rendered normally.

[twinaleblood]

ugh! So absolutely no chances to reencode just that part with vegas?

Mpeg video wizard does that, but I did all the editing with Vegas because it's better suited for such a complex editing. I can do it all over again with MVW, but it doesn't allow me to work with multiple video tracks overlayed, so i would have to do more accurate cuts to fill the gap with the small youtube portion etc.

[_Al_]

it works sometimes (mpeg2), sometimes You could be out of luck, for whatever reason, even different Vegas version, Vegas might not like it and insists of re-encoding,try MainConcept mpeg2 encoder in vegas, make sure bitrate is 6000, or try it a bit higher, make sure field order and resolution is the same. Media info would tell you those specs.
There is even a slight chance that Vegas might interpret your footage wrongly and you'd need it fixed it in properties for the clip. Everything is possible.

[poisondeathray]

Yes it works if they are the same spec footage on the same track, but it can be difficult to "convince" vegas to smart render mpeg2 in the first place. In this regard, programs like Womble, Videoredo are much easier to use and get smart rendering working. Every little thing has to match perfectly. Even if 1 thing is off (e.g. source uses dc10 precision, but you set it to dc9 in the advanced settings) it will re-encode. Before you start making complex edits, test out various project and advanced render settings on a short clip first to see if you can even make it smart render. Once you get those settings, make a note of them

[twinaleblood]

Thanks for the answers. I think I'll just stop trying and I'll do the whole thing with another program instead.

I have Mpeg video wizard and its smart rendering is perfect for what i Need, the difficult thing is, as i said before, that it doesn't allow working on multiple video tracks, so it would be difficult to edit.

Does VideoReDo and/or Womble work with multiple video tracks, overlays etc?

[poisondeathray]

"Womble" is the company name that produces MPEG Video Wizard DVD (it's the same thing) . And no, they are quite limited compared to what Vegas can do

[twinaleblood]

so, I'm basically in a no-win situation

[poisondeathray]

Do you still have the original DV footage ? You could re-do the project .....ugh

Or perhaps do a mixed project in vegas in sections, and append the segments with videoredo etc... afterwards

What kind of edits/manipulations are you doing that requires multiple tracks ? Womble can do simple fades on the ends that you mentioned

[twinaleblood]

Wow yes!! A mixed project might work, if I'm able to match every little thing perfectly so that Vegas do a smart compile.

I can render the first portion (smart), then the small youtube part (reencoded) then the second portion (smart again) and join them all with Mpeg video wizard.

It's definitely worth a try.

[poisondeathray]

I'm not entirely sure what your project consists of, but even if you couldn't get it to smart render, just encode the fade in and out at the beginning and end separately (e.g. using a loop region), the youtube section separately, and append those 5 sections or final joins in womble or videoredo etc... At worse, you incur a bit of loss at the ends and the "seams" or joins.

[twinaleblood]

This is the project: i have a concert on two Mpeg2 files (Pal, 4:3, 6000 kbps) sourced from two mini DV tapes. The audio of these files sucks, so i'm using Sony Vegas to sync them to a better audio track from a different source.

There's a little gap between the two mpeg files (due to tape switching) that i filled with a small clip ripped from a YouTube video (it's just a small portion, less than a minute i think, so i don't mind about the lower quality). That's why i need multiple video tracks. If i do this with mpeg video wizard i would have to cut the youtube video file at a very specific exact point to punch it in and finding it would be very time consuming, while with sony vegas i can slightly move everything until all is perfectly in sync.

[poisondeathray]

This is the project: i have a concert on two Mpeg2 files (Pal, 4:3, 6000 kbps) sourced from two mini DV tapes. The audio of these files sucks, so i'm using Sony Vegas to sync them to a better audio track from a different source.

There's a little gap between the two mpeg files (due to tape switching) that i filled with a small clip ripped from a YouTube video (it's just a small portion, less than a minute i think, so i don't mind about the lower quality). That's why i need multiple video tracks. If i do this with mpeg video wizard i would have to cut the youtube video file at a very specific exact point to punch it in and finding it would be very time consuming, while with sony vegas i can slightly move everything until all is perfectly in sync.

You don't really need multiple tracks for that (you can import different clips on the same track in vegas), but since you need vegas for the audio timing it's just as easy to use a 2nd track

The way I would do it - if vegas wasn't in a mpeg2 smart rendering friendly mood today - , is described above . Use vegas to lay everything out and get the audio timing. I would render out loop regions for the small fade at the beginning, youtube section, and small fade at end . I would make sure not to adjust the audio positioning in the main sections (to keep the timing relation with the original clips), only the youtube section. Then render out only those 3 small sections. It doesn't matter if smart rendering is working, because those sections would have needed to be encoded anyway (fade effects, or youtube video) . You could render out the new audio as a single piece and replace that after joining the segments with mpeg video wizard

[budwzr]

"Re-Encoding" in the digital age is no big deal. There's very little generational loss, like in the old analog days. Your source is not good anyway, why all the fuss?

You want to put a $10 cut on a 50 cent head? Doesn't make sense.

Your source would actually benefit from re-encoding if you upscale it and do some color and sharpening. Like how Ted Turner colorized the old B/W stuff to give it new life.

[twinaleblood]

Yes, but I am going to share this recording on a tracker where you have to provide an accurate lineage of the source and reencoded videos are not allowed, that's why i have to avoid it.

Anyway, i have been able to do smart rendering exporting single parts of the project, now i have to glue them together with Mpeg video wizard

[aedipuss]

you'd probably get better results starting with the original DV off the tape as it's 25,000 kbps not 6,000 kbps. yours has been re-encoded at least once before.

[twinaleblood]

I've made it. I exported the video in parts and Vegas finally smart rendered the MPEG files. Then I gluied them all together with Mpeg video wizard and the resulting demuxed files are flawless. Then I authored the DVD and everything is perfectly working.

Thanks for all the answers and the suggestions!

[newpball]

Yes, but I am going to share this recording on a tracker where you have to provide an accurate lineage of the source and reencoded videos are not allowed, that's why i have to avoid it.

Huh?

If I understand this correctly, you have the sources and get the re-encoded source from a tracker? Then how did it get there in the first place if it wasn't you?

[twinaleblood]

No, I'm sharing the final result on the tracker. The mpeg files are sourced from 2 miniDV tapes transferred through firewire.

A DVD authored with MPEG sourced from a miniDV is accepted on the tracker. A dvd authored with MPEG sourced from miniDV and then reencoded by Vegas would not be allowed.

[newpball]

No, I'm sharing the final result on the tracker. The mpeg files are sourced from 2 miniDV tapes transferred through firewire.

A DVD authored with MPEG sourced from a miniDV is accepted on the tracker. A dvd authored with MPEG sourced from miniDV and then reencoded by Vegas would not be allowed.

So?

You have the sources right?

So capture them in Vegas and author them in your DVD authoring program as MPEG.

[twinaleblood]

My friend has the sources. He transferred them from miniDV to mpeg through firewire and sent the files to me for syncing with the new audio source and authoring. It took a while, but I've made it in the end as you can see in my previous message.

[newpball]

My friend has the sources. He transferred them from miniDV to mpeg through firewire and sent the files to me for syncing with the new audio source and authoring. It took a while, but I've made it in the end as you can see in my previous message.

So then you re-encoded the mpeg?

[twinaleblood]

I did not. I did the whole syncing on Vegas, then i exported it one portion at time, so that Vegas would do the smart rendering witout re-encoding. The only re-encoded part is the small (less than one min) portion sourced from a YouTube clip that i used to f ill the gap between the two original mpegs.

Once i exported all the portions with Vegas, i glued them together (again, no re-encoding) with Mpeg Video Wizard. The resulting video, which i used to author the dvd with DVD Lab pro 2 (again, once again no re-encoding) is flawless.