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  1. Hi.

    I am not the most professional or experienced video editor. I have ripped my DVD collection. I captured my VHS tapes and Hi8mm tapes. I have captured my cassette tapes, vinyl records and ripped my CDs. I am still doing metadata. I have done work for others too with good results.

    I used a Dazzle 150b device with Pinnacle Studio 9 Plus to capture the VHS and Hi8mm tapes. It looks fairly good for a direct to mpeg2 capture. It maxes out as a 720x480 and approximately 4000k/bits.

    What I want to do though is capture the analogue sources as AVI-DV or AVI-lossless (I want the AVI-lossless). Is there hardware or software that does this? I dont have a huge amount of money. I read some other posts and used equipment. But Is there anything that is new? I would prefer USB (the easiest for desktop and laptop) or a PCI card.

    I have seen a lot of video game capture devices or capture cards and such online. But I cant always find the specs or input and output settings. Some do not capture certain sources.

    Are there any devices that can capture composite and s-video at the same time? When I hooked up my Hi8mm camera to my tv with both outputs, the picture is better. With my current capture device, only one input can be selected.

    When capturing old VHS movies or tapes and 8mm cassettes, has anyone had to worry about copy protection? I have not encountered it so far. My concern is that if a client or I find some not currently released VHS, PAL or SECAM tapes I wont be able to convert them.

    Is there a way to capture copy protected DVD or Blu-Ray discs? I have a program that has worked for my collection (123Copy DVD platinum). But because of a few problem discs, I think manually capturing is needed.

    Are there capture devices that will be able to use hdmi or component capture? And can they work to get a high quality VHS capture? Does it upscale or enhance it with the best signal?

    Is there such a thing as 8mm or Hi8mm PAL and Secam formats? Can a North American Hi8mm camcorder be used to playback? I dont think that would work.

    Thanks for the help.
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    Hello, and welcome to the forum.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    I used a Dazzle 150b device with Pinnacle Studio 9 Plus to capture the VHS and Hi8mm tapes. It looks fairly good for a direct to mpeg2 capture. It maxes out as a 720x480 and approximately 4000k/bits.
    There's a frequently quoted saying in video forums, that friends don't let their friends use Dazzle or Pinnacle. Surely you can do better. 720x480 or 704x480 are legitimate and standard per-spec frame sizes for DVD and for SD BluRay. Direct to DVD for analog sources is one of the poorest low-quality ways of doing it, and 4000 kbps is a rather stingy bitrate for noisy tapes. MPEG is a final delivery format, not a format designed for editing or correction.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    What I want to do though is capture the analogue sources as AVI-DV or AVI-lossless (I want the AVI-lossless). Is there hardware or software that does this? I dont have a huge amount of money. I read some other posts and used equipment. But Is there anything that is new? I would prefer USB (the easiest for desktop and laptop) or a PCI card.
    Lossslessly compressed huffyuv or Lagarith AVI would be the first choice for editing and/or cleanup, DV-AVI IMO is a second choice that requires care in avoiding DCT ringing, mosquito noise and other artifacts, and chroma loss. DV-AVI is not lossless. It can be edited in smart-rendering editors that can handle DV-AVI, but any corrections or color work will require total lossy re-encoding. DV-AVI is for PC-only playback -- it must be re-encoded for playback on anything other than a computer and is usually not acceptable for web posting..

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    I have seen a lot of video game capture devices or capture cards and such online. But I cant always find the specs or input and output settings. Some do not capture certain sources.
    The usual choice for lossless analog capture are capture devices from Diamond Multimedia, some of which are marketed under the ATI label. Canopus devices are usually used for DV-AVI.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Are there any devices that can capture composite and s-video at the same time? When I hooked up my Hi8mm camera to my tv with both outputs, the picture is better. With my current capture device, only one input can be selected.
    Not that I ever heard about. How do you view two inputs on your tv at the same time?

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    When capturing old VHS movies or tapes and 8mm cassettes, has anyone had to worry about copy protection? I have not encountered it so far. My concern is that if a client or I find some not currently released VHS, PAL or SECAM tapes I wont be able to convert them.
    Home made tapes aren't copy protected. Retail analog copy protection is defeated with an external frame-level TBC. Two favorites are the AVT-8710 and the TBC-1000. Some legacy Panasonic and Toshiba DVD recorders used as tbc pass-thru devices will usually ignore copy protection. You can't use a pass-thru device to record copy protected sources directly to the recorder.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Is there a way to capture copy protected DVD or Blu-Ray discs? I have a program that has worked for my collection (123Copy DVD platinum). But because of a few problem discs, I think manually capturing is needed.
    Digital sources aren't captured, they're ripped (decrypted) or as original DV via FireWire directly to a computer as 1-to-1 copies. There are a few DVD decrypters in the forum tools section. BluRay requires HDCP splitters, some of which work well, some of which don't work so well, some of which don't work at all. There are several long and involved threads concerning BluRay decryption. I haven't got into the specifics because I don't use them. I just buy my own copies of protected material.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Are there capture devices that will be able to use hdmi or component capture? And can they work to get a high quality VHS capture? Does it upscale or enhance it with the best signal?
    Yes. They capture to a computer, usually via component cable. Look into the Hauppauge line of HD PVR's, for one. They can capture HD as well as analog and SD sources. Don't even think about upscaling VHS or 8mm to HD proportions. They don't have the resolution or clean input for HD, and they look like crap.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Is there such a thing as 8mm or Hi8mm PAL and Secam formats? Can a North American Hi8mm camcorder be used to playback? I dont think that would work.
    It wouldn't. Good luck finding a player and a tv in North America that can handle PAL/SECAM.

    Analog capture devices vary in quality. The two names I mentioned have found wide acceptance. Of equal and maybe greater importance is the analog playback device. if you use a typical VCR you're doing your clients a disservice and making extra work for yourself. Analog playback requires stable tracking, higher-end electronics, and a line tbc of some kind, either built-in to the player or as a pass-thru device. A line-level tbc and a frame-level tbc are two difference kinds of tbc. A frame-level tbc will not address most of the unstable playback problems of analog tape sources.

    ED: Also note that capturing and recording are not "ripping". A definition is here: https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?R#Rip
    Last edited by LMotlow; 29th Oct 2014 at 10:53.
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  3. Hi. I haven't been able to get to the forum and leave a reply.

    I found this web-site: http://www.diamondmm.com/. Is this the right place? Should I look at capture cards or tv tuners? Some are similar. Some tv tuners can take inputs and record. Which capture cards are good? I read another post about about the ATI-100 device. But apparently that only works in XP and less because of the drivers.

    Does the diamond multimedia come with any good capture software? Which programs work with them? I have looked at the Diamond GC 1000 and VC 500. They seem to not capture in AVI in the specs page. Though the product description says otherwise.

    2 TV inputs: When I used my tv 'Sharp Aquos LC 26D43U' and my Sony Video Camera Recorder Hi 8: Model: CCD - TRV58, I accidentally connected the S-Video cable and the component video/mono audio cable. I watched a Hi8 tape I recorded. I remember saying this does not look too bad on my new TV. When the tape was done, I noticed that I made a mistake and connected both. After staring at the TV and plugging in each input or both and unplugging one at a time I noticed the picture does look better. If anyone else can explain this or try it out on a few devices, please do so. I also noticed this with the old square TV's, old video game consoles, older vcr's, etc. It seems some TV's and some capture devices treat the stream from these two inputs as one. Maybe when both inputs are in and the input/output devices can send/receive both streams: The theoretical maximums are reached for output resolution. Note: When I tried to connect the TV In/ANT Out (I think the coaxial cable) it decreases the composite video resolution and very noticeably with the TV In/ANT Out and S-Video.

    The TV and Yamaha DVD-S659 DVD Player play the PAL DVD's. The videocassette tapes, I cannot confirm what will work. But if the capture device can handle the format of VHS PAL and SECAM, then the files and discs will work as NTSC.

    The Hauppauge line of HD PVR's seem to have a component cable and no composite or s-video. So if I had a Blu-Ray/VCR unit, if I connected the component cables what resolution would be outputted? The best possible for analog? Or does it convert the signal?

    I noticed with the Hauppauge line of HD PVR's that they have a limit of about 13.5 mbit. Can this go higher? Or does it even matter with a VHS or 8mm capture? I assume these devices have copy protection, do they? I am asking incase I cannot make a back-up of one of my discs. If you have any sites that have digital files for sale and compare to the discs, please let me know where. Though: Some releases are only on physical media.

    The AVT-8710 is a frame-level tbc. What would the line-level tbc do compared to the frame-level tbc? Are the line-level something that major studios have?

    When capturing with something like the AVT-8710 and the TBC-1000, should any of the options for brightness, contrast, etc be adjusted while recording or should those adjustments be done in the NLE video program? From my experiences when dealing with audio, video or photo: It's important to capture/record/take the best material possible and then do editing. I found when adjusting beforehand in almost 99% of situations, it's not the right thing to do.

    I did some testing on VHS tapes I have. One was decent quality and one was not a great recording. When I used my current video player while capturing and selected the picture control and video stabilizer: the recordings were not good and dropped many frames.

    Are there any blu-ray or dvd and vcr combo units that are capable of frame or line-level tbc? If I bought one today, would there be a difference? I assume the newer models do not address the playback issues.

    If I find a VCR for a good price, do certain brands perform better than others? Or have the TBC's that are built-in to S-VHS VCRs and are DNR-based?

    Panasonic ES10 DVD Recorder is one of the DVD recorders?
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  4. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Does the diamond multimedia come with any good capture software? Which programs work with them? I have looked at the Diamond GC 1000 and VC 500. They seem to not capture in AVI in the specs page. Though the product description says otherwise.

    The Hauppauge line of HD PVR's seem to have a component cable and no composite or s-video. So if I had a Blu-Ray/VCR unit, if I connected the component cables what resolution would be outputted? The best possible for analog? Or does it convert the signal?

    I noticed with the Hauppauge line of HD PVR's that they have a limit of about 13.5 mbit. Can this go higher? Or does it even matter with a VHS or 8mm capture? I assume these devices have copy protection, do they? I am asking incase I cannot make a back-up of one of my discs. If you have any sites that have digital files for sale and compare to the discs, please let me know where. Though: Some releases are only on physical media.
    The Diamond GC 1000 is Hardware H264 Encoder and VC500 is a AVI capture device it just used software encoding.

    With HD-PVR 2, Rocket and Colossus if you only need Composite then you just plug-in the Yellow RCA in to Blue Component Jack on A/V input cable and set the input to Composite in the software.
    You can order the a reg set Composite/S-Video A/V Input Cable for HD-PVR 2, Rocket and Colossus device if wish right off there web store.
    The resolution will depend it can be 480i or 480p with DVD where Blu-ray may be 480i or 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p it just depends on how it was encode on the disc.
    This is a Real-time Hardware H.264/AVC Encoder
    Nope that max with HD-PVR is to 13.5Mb/sec where the HD-PVR 2 is set to 14Mb/sec where the HD-PVR Rocket is set to 18Mb/sec and the Colossus is set to 20Mb/sec it has a build in TBC.
    Here a Short Clip from HD-PVR 2 with it record Sony Hi8 camcorder.

    There are other option like Blackmagic Design and AVerMedia have reg AVI capture card
    Last edited by SHS; 8th Nov 2014 at 12:39.
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  5. Thanks LMotLow and SHS.

    I cannot see the Sony Hi8 capture. Link and saving it does not work.

    The Hauppauge Colossus: What kind of TBC does it have? Does it deal with macrovision? But again, the limit seems to be 1080i. I was going to buy this card about 3 years ago. But declined due to some limitations. I have seen some usb2 (or 3?) gaming capture devices able to do 1080p. I don't understand why there limit is 1080i on a lot of devices. Does it have to do with HDCP? Is the included software good enough, or are there others that recognize this capture device?

    And if a device such as the Hauppauge Colossus claims it can record tv or satellite programs, will the signal still be picked up? I though HDCP encryption would not let that happen? Or is it because there are component inputs?

    Is the TBC-1000 able to input 4 different sources and output to 4 different sources? Eg: 4 VCR's with 4 different movies/video and output them into 4 different capture cards? If so does anyone notice a difference in the visuals such as, the TBC-1000 is strained after 3 different inputs and the pictures are blurred, too soft or discoloured, etc?

    AVT-8710 looks good for price, although the TBC-1000 has its advantages.

    I have noticed when capturing S-Video that there are dots in a grid like pattern in the picture. Maybe another thread can address this, but can this be eliminated and why is it there?
    Last edited by SyncroScales; 8th Nov 2014 at 09:33.
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  6. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Link fix sorry about that SyncroScales
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  7. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Thanks LMotLow and SHS.

    I cannot see the Sony Hi8 capture. Link and saving it does not work.

    The Hauppauge Colossus: What kind of TBC does it have? Does it deal with macrovision? But again, the limit seems to be 1080i. I was going to buy this card about 3 years ago. But declined due to some limitations. I have seen some usb2 (or 3?) gaming capture devices able to do 1080p. I don't understand why there limit is 1080i on a lot of devices. Does it have to do with HDCP? Is the included software good enough, or are there others that recognize this capture device??
    As for the TBC that I don't know all know it has build in
    That I don't know if it deal with macrovision tape as I all ready done archive all my tape a long time with PVR model or replace them with DVD as they come out in fact I don't even have VCR any more sorry.
    Keep in mind that when the chip are first made and all bug work out there all ready at lease 2+ year old fab some time it even longer before we get this unlike CPU and Video card newest tech so as for why no 1080P on it wasn't main steam at time plus all the other BS like MPAPA and RIAA red tape crap.
    No matter what capture card you get it will have HDCP enable there no getting round that with out a HDMI splitter


    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    And if a device such as the Hauppauge Colossus claims it can record tv or satellite programs, will the signal still be picked up? I though HDCP encryption would not let that happen? Or is it because there are component inputs?
    You can use HDMI but as said before you need HDMI splitter Read this page
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    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    I have seen some usb2 (or 3?) gaming capture devices able to do 1080p. I don't understand why there limit is 1080i on a lot of devices. Does it have to do with HDCP? Is the included software good enough, or are there others that recognize this capture device?
    It has to do with how much data the encoding chip can handle at one time.

    1080i has 29.97 frames per second (with two 1920x540 fields per frame) or it has 25 frames per second (with two 1920x540 fields per frame) depending upon the video system a country uses. The fields are a simple means of compression. Each field becomes a full 1920x1080 frame when an interlaced frame is properly de-interlaced for display at either 59.94 or 50 frames per second. When 1080p video uses 59.94 frames per second, 60 frames per second or 50 frames per second, there is twice as much data to process in the same time period as there would be for the matching 1080i video.

    [Edit] I had to leave before I finished. Some video games consoles and PCs can output at 1080p at 59.94 frames per second or 60 frames per second, which is more data than the encoder chips in most capture devices can process. A 1080i capture device is enough for regular satellite cable or over-the-air TV channels, which don't go above 1080i.

    You might be on the right track when it comes to commercial movies. Although the amount of data produced by a 1080p24 source might fall within the range of what 1080i devices can capture, capturing from the sources that produce 1080p24 (commercial Blu-Ray movies, upscaled output from a DVD player, on-demand movies from a TV provider) recording those is legally a gray area at best and most are HDCP protected.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Nov 2014 at 09:19. Reason: clarity
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    Your questions are all over the place. Personally, I can't be bothered trying to answer 15 in a row when half are going to be dead-ends.

    A few that stuck out:
    • Try capturing with the VCR's Video Stabilizer turned OFF. This is the recommended setting normally for JVCs, even according to the manual. It tends to have the opposite effect.
    • The TBC-1000 has 1 input, not 4. It only functions as a splitter.
    • Hauppauge's devices won't give you 13.5Mbps for SD, in my experience. Often they come in much lower than the targeted bitrate even for HD. The Hi8 clip that SHS posted is around 7Mbps.
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  10. Thanks for the replies everyone.

    I am trying to get through a lot of info. I've been reading a lot of posts on the forums to try and get answers and not ask the same ones, although I am...

    I have read about and done my tests for SD. Is it possible to get into very high bit-rates? What about with AVI captures? What AVI bit-rates do these usually manage for composite and s-video captures? Because these signals are only so strong and the sizes only so big, is that why they max out at about 4000 kbit/s - 7000 kbit/s (4-7 mbit/s)?

    Was looking at the TBC-5000 and made the mistake of confusing the 4 inputs for that unit with the 1 input of the tbc-1000. So can that unit input and output 4 different streams at once? Are there issues of heavy-loads outputting poor quality streams?

    Read a few posts on this forum about HDMI splitters. This stuff is too bad... "...the other BS like MPAPA and RIAA red tape crap." I want to learn about video. If Hollywood, the RIAA, MPAPA, etc and libraries had all the audio, video, photo, graphical, etc stuff archived and available, most of this would be irrelevant. I just need to get a reliable HDMI splitter and am trying to get info.

    For the Hauppauge products or the Diamond Multimedia GC 1000 and VC500: Can other types of programs recognize these pieces of hardware? Is a person stuck with the included software? Would these two programs work ("Lossslessly compressed huffyuv or Lagarith AVI")?

    Is there a capture device that uses 2 usb2 plugs? I have seen some external BD-R's that use usb3 and/or 2 usb2 plugs. I am asking because maybe the bit-rates could be maintained for an external capture device this way. The Black Magic devices seem to only be usb3 and/or thunderbolt.

    What is the best for capturing video? mts files such as what the Hauppauge colossus captures? Or Lossless AVI? It seems Lossless AVI contains more of the data and no compression.

    Thanks.
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  11. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    For the Hauppauge products or the Diamond Multimedia GC 1000 and VC500: Can other types of programs recognize these pieces of hardware? Is a person stuck with the included software? Would these two programs work ("Lossslessly compressed huffyuv or Lagarith AVI")?
    The two codec you listed will most likely only work with VC500 as those codec are made for RAW Type input device as most Hauppauge products and the Diamond Multimedia GC 1000 are Hardware H264/AVC Encoder and other them will not work. You could how ever transcode the video in to format you wish for, I have done that with MPEG in past with older Hauppauge PVR-150 and those pain in butt VHS tape just so I can edit a few video.

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    Is there a capture device that uses 2 usb2 plugs? I have seen some external BD-R's that use usb3 and/or 2 usb2 plugs. I am asking because maybe the bit-rates could be maintained for an external capture device this way. The Black Magic devices seem to only be usb3 and/or thunderbolt.
    I don't know of any external BD-R's that have a real 2 USB-2 plugs unless it made pull an extra bit power of USB port to run the drive and be more of portable device and there are all ready in a high compression format so it work find with USB-2 as it only send the pre-encode file from the disc to player for decoding for display.
    Black Magic Intensity Shuttle are HD and doesn't do much compression if any so there far it really high data rate that why you have to have USB-3 Port and/or Thunderbolt Port in order handle it after all it 10 times faster than USB 2.0 480Mbps (Megabits per second) vs USB 3.0 4.8Gbps (Giga bits per second).

    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    What is the best for capturing video? mts files such as what the Hauppauge colossus captures? Or Lossless AVI? It seems Lossless AVI contains more of the data and no compression.
    That depend if you going to be lots of custom editing then it best to stick with RAW AVI as H264 good run of mill still like Merge, Trim, Cut, Split, Crop and Mixing Video for best overall result and must of the time keep audio sync as some editor work where other don't so unlike custom editing where need special features like Video & Audio Speed, Picture-in-Picture, Green Screen, Scene Detection, Mosaic, Tilt shift, Face off , etc, etc to make your creation more personalized and vivid.
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  12. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SyncroScales View Post
    I have read about and done my tests for SD. Is it possible to get into very high bit-rates? What about with AVI captures? What AVI bit-rates do these usually manage for composite and s-video captures? Because these signals are only so strong and the sizes only so big, is that why they max out at about 4000 kbit/s - 7000 kbit/s (4-7 mbit/s)?
    What tests are you referring to?

    AVI is a container. For uncompressed, the raw bitrate is a constant derived from the storage requirements for the color depth * frame size * frame rate (i.e. 16 bits/pixel * 720 pixels wide * 480 pixels high * 30000/1001 frames per second = ~165Mbps). Lossless data rates depend on how compressible each frame is: the noisier the signal, the less it can be compressed. My recent VHS captures are around 61Mbps.

    Who knows why Hauppauge configured their encoder to those specific levels. Opinions differ on how much bitrate is needed for lossy-compressed video.

    Was looking at the TBC-5000 and made the mistake of confusing the 4 inputs for that unit with the 1 input of the tbc-1000. So can that unit input and output 4 different streams at once? Are there issues of heavy-loads outputting poor quality streams?
    Yes, the TBC-5000 is a "matrix switcher". It's also $800. You said you "don't have a huge amount of money" but I guess that's subjective. I think you'll have a tough time finding someone who bought one to report on any possible issues.

    For the Hauppauge products or the Diamond Multimedia GC 1000 and VC500: Can other types of programs recognize these pieces of hardware? Is a person stuck with the included software? Would these two programs work ("Lossslessly compressed huffyuv or Lagarith AVI")?
    What you quoted are codecs, not programs. The VC500 can work in any DirectShow program, like VirtualDub. Don't buy it for VHS capture unless you have a line TBC somewhere in your chain (which you should anyway).

    What is the best for capturing video? mts files such as what the Hauppauge colossus captures? Or Lossless AVI?
    Didn't you say you've been reading a lot of threads? "The best" is a topic that is discussed all the time. Quality and convenience are at odds.

    It seems Lossless AVI contains more of the data and no compression.
    "Lossless" is shorthand for "lossless compression". The data is stored in a compacted form and then returned to its original state upon retrieval.
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  13. Hi. Thanks for the replys.

    Does anyone use the Diamond Multimedia VC500? In the product descriptions it says mpeg1/2/4 only. Not AVI. And will I be limited to only using the included software? Eg: Can I use Avid Studio (not Avid Composer) or Sony Vegas (not pro)? I understand that any DirectShow program can work. But what about some of the others?

    I would want to deal with RAW AVI that has high bit-rates for custom editing. I don't really care if the files are big. I can handle them. I am dealing with Hi8mm tapes and VHS tapes of people dancing or moving around a lot. There are also vacation footages that need to be archived well.

    If I wanted mpeg 2 or 4 would virtualdub be a program to use? I install the plug-ins and add-ons, just like for AVI?

    Is a line TBC necessary for 8mm and Hi8mm tapes?

    Is there a difference between a regular VCR and a blu-ray(or DVD) with VCR combo for NTSC or PAL? I read in an instructional for capturing VHS tapes that these combo machines are not a great idea. I can't find the link for the article though. These combo machines are all I am finding in a lot of places.
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