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  1. Hi guys, I'm new here.

    I've come across this issue with many videos, never really bothered me, but it's starting to.

    In the snapshot below, if you look at the woman's hair, there's some sort of blockiness going on, not sure if it has to do with the way the video was compressed or if it has to do with noise.

    Click image for larger version

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    Not sure what to call it. Here's another:

    Click image for larger version

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    Is there any way to get rid of it or filter it out? Would be nice.

    Please let me know, thanks.
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  2. Member
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    They are banding and macroblock artifacts caused by:

    a) insufficient bitrate to maintain enough data to define fine gradients or large expanses of solid color.
    b) Over filtering, especially removing too much original grain (seems likely here)
    c) Improper conversion of colorspace, as from YUV to RGB to YUV, etc.
    d) data loss through careless re-encoding.
    (e) Any and all of the above

    Best repaired by going back to an earlier version of the source video and processing more carefully. Adding noise (fine grain) and using debanding filters such as GradFun2DBmod or GradFun3 before encoding often helps.
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1390949
    Last edited by LMotlow; 27th Oct 2014 at 15:41.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  3. Thanks for your help, will take a further look at what you said.

    Such a shame, I've even seen footage on iTunes have these issues, which isn't something I'd expect.
    Last edited by MetalPen; 27th Oct 2014 at 16:05.
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  4. Originally Posted by MetalPen View Post
    I've even seen footage on iTunes have these issues, which isn't something I'd expect.
    To the server, low bandwidth is more important than quality with streamed or downloaded video.
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  5. Yeah, I suppose..

    I don't think it's fair though, considering some of their stuff has quite a price.
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    Ditto. Common, though. Saves processing and transmission costs, increases ye olde profits. Also supposed to inhibit pirating (fat chance. Most people will pay for and watch anything).
    - My sister Ann's brother
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    Originally Posted by MetalPen View Post
    Hi guys, I'm new here.

    I've come across this issue with many videos, never really bothered me, but it's starting to.

    In the snapshot below, if you look at the woman's hair, there's some sort of blockiness going on, not sure if it has to do with the way the video was compressed or if it has to do with noise.

    Image
    [Attachment 28160 - Click to enlarge]
    For animations you can apply a mild surface (e.g. edge aware) blur:

    Click image for larger version

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Views:	552
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ID:	28200
    Last edited by newpball; 29th Oct 2014 at 19:11.
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  8. Member
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    For animations you can apply a mild surface (e.g. edge aware) blur
    Chances are about 50% to 75% that the artifacts will return during the next encode.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  9. Just converting it back to YV12 will bring a lot of the posterization back (though in a less blocky pattern) because there are fewer available colors and the differences between them are greater. As LMotlow pointed out, you really need to add noise and encode with sufficient bitrate to keep them away. Or work and encode in 10 bit YUV.
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    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    For animations you can apply a mild surface (e.g. edge aware) blur
    Chances are about 50% to 75% that the artifacts will return during the next encode.
    If you encode it to a low end quality codec like used on Youtube chances are it is closer to 100%.

    For instance here is a before and after video encoded with DNxHD and uploaded to Youtube. I can see that the DNxHD video clearly shows a difference between before and after but watch what happens when I put it on Youtube and it gets re-encoded:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnkqJJ0R17o&feature=youtu.be

    The mess is pretty much back!

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  11. Thanks guys, for taking the time to help me out with this, it's really appreciated.

    I might try and hunt down a higher quality version of the cartoon, but I'll keep that filter and the tips in mind, as it does look much better, eitherway.
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  12. Hey there, me again..

    I wanted to find out something, with regards to the same/a similar problem.

    If I download a video from YouTube that's 480p or even higher, and has that similar blocky effect, can anybody recommend what filters a person could use to make the video look better?

    For instance, could I also use that edge aware filter for videos other than cartoons, or is there something else that's better to use?

    Thanks.
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  13. Thanks.

    Will try it out, I'm hoping to get some 480p videos to just above DVD quaility, hopefully cleaning the videos up enough will do so..

    Are there any other filters/programs that could help me achieve this?
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  14. Gradfun2dbmod()

    A sample of your source would be better than posting images.

    Beware of newpball's method. It can remove a lot of detail too. Similar filters include Jim Casaburi's 2d Cleaner in VirtualDub. And _2dCleanYUY2() in AviSynth. You need to set the threshold lower to protect details in the rest of the picture.
    Last edited by jagabo; 22nd Nov 2014 at 09:44.
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  15. Thanks!

    Yeah, sorry, reason being that I haven't posted videos in that my problem is a bit of a general one. As it's a few music videos I would like to get off YouTube, but a lot of them that are quite older, and only go up to 480p some even 360p.

    Should I post a link to one as an example?
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  16. You can post links here in these forums. Just paste the link into your post.
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  17. Also, here's one of them that only goes up to 360p:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYiU_JCYtU
    Last edited by MetalPen; 22nd Nov 2014 at 12:33.
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  18. Is this just for learning experience, or did you really want those videos?

    For the music vids, why don't you download the HD versions to start with? e.g. vevo, other youtube sites, vimeo. There are free tools and methods available to download from vevo (e.g. ffmpeg)

    Some of the older music videos will be upscaled SD, but even upscaled it might be better overall because of the higher bitrates used in the "HD" version . Also, the "HD" versions tend to have higher audio bitrates, and added bonus. There might be some other "gotchas", e.g. sometimes the frame rate might be different, or aspect ratio wrong, but the image quality should be better because of the bitrate allocation

    eg. bon jovi. Here is the youtube version you linked to, and the vevo version 1:1 crop. The youtube version is resized to match (both AR's are wrong IMO BTW, but I just did it for comparison purposes) . Clearly the vevo version has more detail, but one of the "gotchas" is it's the "euro" version at 25FPS in this specific bon jovi case, but they are clean duplicates (not a field blended version) so easily decimated back. No amount of "restoration" will bring that YT video you linked to this amount of detail.

    Start with the best material you can get your hands on, then work from there
    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    If you want the best published source:

    New Bon Jovi - Greatest Hits DVD - $8 including shipping and no tax.


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0045EH4SS/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
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  20. Do you have that DVD ?

    I'm not a huge bon jovi fan, but many offical release music DVD's are downright terrible in quality . Buyer beware!
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Do you have that DVD ?
    No I don't.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Do you have that DVD ?
    I'm not a huge bon jovi fan, but many offical release music DVD's are downright terrible in quality . Buyer beware!
    Actually you are correct.

    There is no guarantee the DVD source is any better.
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  22. What I didn't like is that the promo videos weren't in full screen or widescreen. Instead you have the promo videos in the center of the screen with black borders on all four sides. Some of the promo videos weren't even cleaned up. Almost as if they were copied from a VHS cassette.
    http://www.amazon.ca/product-reviews/B0045EH4SS/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

    This is a user review, so take it with a grain of salt. But in my experience , the "music labels" are among the worst offenders among poorly produced DVD's. (Guys like manono will say that "heavyweight" belt goes to "Bollywood" but I don't buy Indian DVD's so I wouldn't know from my own collection)

    I would hope the audio is better on the DVD than the various online versions - at least the recording labels usually get that part right
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  23. Thanks for your help guys.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Is this just for learning experience, or did you really want those videos?
    A bit of both I guess, there are quite a few music videos I wouldn't mind getting.

    I would like to get a minimum of DVD quality, and I'd buy the DVDs, but unfortunately not all of them have been released. For example, Linkin Park looks to have never released any sort of a music video compilation DVD, only ones with live versions.

    I'm hoping Vevo and Vimeo will have some higher quality videos to work with though, I thought maybe YouTube was the way to go in terms of music videos, but it seems not. I was also thinking of iTunes as an option, but they can be a little pricey and not necessarily any better either..
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  24. I was also wondering, if after filtering and maybe smoothing, would adding grain help at all?
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  25. You have to add grain and make sure that the encoder retains it (use sufficient bitrate, tune for grain retention). Or else much of the banding will return. That was mentioned a few times already in this thread.
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    jagabo is correct. The amount of tweaking depends on the source video, none of which we have here to advise in detail. Most debanding filters add a bit of grain, but from what I see it's sometimes just enough, but often not. Play it by ear (or by eye, lol!). A decent grainer is AddGrainC, which can be seasoned to taste.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  27. Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

    Will play it by eye, haha.
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  28. After looking at the music videos on iTunes again. I still think they a bit on the pricey side considering that the quality isn't perfect (still blocky, etc.).

    But after seeing different levels of detail, I don't think it's too bad, most of them I've seen look to go for around $2..

    Here's a comparison:

    YouTube:

    Click image for larger version

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    iTunes:

    Click image for larger version

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    I believe with a bit of filtering, it should look as good as ones on a decently produced DVD.

    I'm just thinking of it as a good alternative when there's no decent versions of a video out there quality-wise.
    Last edited by MetalPen; 28th Nov 2014 at 14:48.
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