Advice needed for converting family VHS tapes to digital

[Brad]

I assume the Win8 drivers are the same as Win7, where the Proc Amp is concerned: they only allow access to brightness and contrast, and for some reason the scale is shown as 0-10000 even though internally it's still 0-255, therefore changes only happen in steps of ~39.

BTW, it makes more sense to save flat-colored window screenshots as PNG instead of JPG.

[jadoggin]

Thanks for the PNG tip vapereon800. I'm assuming that making brightness adjustments to the Proc Amp is only good if an entire video is too dark for example. Since all the videos I'm capturing are full 2hr tapes, I probably won't be using this as it may end up making a scene too bright later in the film.

Ok, so now I've managed to capture several clips, but even though I've gone to both "Capture Pin" and "Set Custom Format" in virtualdub and verified both places were set to 740x480, it captures every time to 720x240. This makes the video look extremely stretched. What am I doing wrong?

[LMotlow]

Capture at 720x480.

Brightness and contrast are usually set for capture to a compromise setting that should handle the worst-case scenario with a tape. If the entire tape is too dark, not compensating for it gets you a cap with crushed blacks and noisy, inky darks that can't be corrected later. Likewise, if it's too bright you'll clip highlights and lose unrecoverable detail in brights. Most players pump the tonal range outta sight, making darks too dark and brights too hot. Use the capture histogram to check levels. If the entire tape graphic display crashes against the left and right sides of a histogram, you're in trouble later.

Contrary to what you might think, brightness controls black levels and contrast controls brights. They interact, so you have to fuss with them a bit to find a compromise. You might have a maverick section of tape that defies your compromise. But it's less trouble to recapture that segment and patch it in later. Otherwise it won't just be difficult to make that segment fit, it'll be impossible.

That's the nature of analog sources. Tape is a mess, that's all there is to it.

[jadoggin]

That's just the problem. I DO have it set to 720x480 and it still only captures to 240. Do I need to do something extra with VD?

Regarding brightness and contrast, how can I check levels without playing the whole tape through? And how do I use this "capture histogram" you are referring to?

[jagabo]

What does VirtualDub show in the preview window while capturing? Is that half high also? Are you applying any filters? What compression codec are you using? How are you viewing the result that's giving you a half high image? What does MediaInfo say about the file? Post a sample?

[LMotlow]

Regarding brightness and contrast, how can I check levels without playing the whole tape through? And how do I use this "capture histogram" you are referring to?

In VDub Capture's top menu, click "Video" -> "Histogram". Turn off the histogram before you start capture. The histogram range RGB 16-235 is indicated at the left and right edges. You probably know what's on the tape by now, but browse through a minute or so or a couple of shots. Usually a small portion of the tape will give you an idea of the levels the tape and the player are putting out. If there are black borders in the frame, they'll show up as a sharp "spike" at the left-hand side -- it's okay to let the black border slip near the left edge.

At a picture height of 240 it sounds like you're looking at fields, not frames. I'd echo jagabo's questions above.

[digitaljar]

I use the Toshiba DVR 620 ( http://www.toshiba.com/us/accessories/Electronics/DVD-Recorders/DVR620/DVR620 ) along with Diamond USB 1080 HD game capture. The up convert signal in the analog HD looks way better than the analog video composite. VHS Video recorded in SP looks very crispy on the up convert. If you're going for highest quality than I recommend this VHS player along with an HD component capture device.

[LMotlow]

Uh....I think most members here would not recommend that the O.P. follow any part of your workflow. The player in a DVD/VHS combo is for highest quality? Upscaling home made VHS? I don't think so. But everyone has their own concept of quality.

[digitaljar]

Uh....I think most members here would not recommend that the O.P. follow any part of your workflow. The player in a DVD/VHS combo is for highest quality? Upscaling home made VHS? I don't think so. But everyone has their own concept of quality.

I don't convert the VHS over to the DVD combo drive...read my comment again!

[newpball]

I use the Toshiba DVR 620 ( http://www.toshiba.com/us/accessories/Electronics/DVD-Recorders/DVR620/DVR620 ) along with Diamond USB 1080 HD game capture. The up convert signal in the analog HD looks way better than the analog video composite. VHS Video recorded in SP looks very crispy on the up convert. If you're going for highest quality than I recommend this VHS player along with an HD component capture device.

Could you show us an image of that very crispy upconverted VHS capture?

[digitaljar]

SP mode VHS played on Toshiba DVR 620 via HD component upconvert

[digitaljar]

Newpball, so what do you think?

[newpball]

Newpball, so what do you think?

Well taking into consideration that this is a widescreen VHS (aspect ratio 1: 1.75) then if the source is indeed VHS it is pretty darn good. I see lots of MPEG2 artifacts but zero VHS artifacts.

[digitaljar]

It's a very good upconvert!

[jagabo]

Why is the image 1023x586? The DVD recorder would upscale to 1280x720 or 1920x1080. How about some raw video?

[digitaljar]

Nostradamus documentary from the 70's...still not too bad. I converted this to Mpeg 2.

[digitaljar]

Why is the image 1023x586? The DVD recorder would upscale to 1280x720 or 1920x1080. How about some raw video?

You're a pro right...I snipped it with the capturing tool!

[LMotlow]

Newpball, so what do you think?

Well taking into consideration that this is a widescreen VHS (aspect ratio 1: 1.75) then if the source is indeed VHS it is pretty darn good. I see lots of MPEG2 artifacts but zero VHS artifacts.

It's a very good upconvert!

[Attachment 28508 - Click to enlarge]Nostradamus documentary from the 70's...still not too bad. I converted this to Mpeg 2.

Doesn't take much to please this crowd, does it?

Why is the image 1023x586? The DVD recorder would upscale to 1280x720 or 1920x1080. How about some raw video?

Ditto. But forget the documentary.

[digitaljar]

lol...you should know that a few factors should be taken into consideration; quality of video camera, quality of VHS tape, VHS recording speed, dubbed copy, dubbed with enhancements, original source tape, condition of video player heads...and so on.

[LMotlow]

Lowering quality bars is the big trend these days. Who am I to buck a major cultural trend?

Why didn't you go for 1920x1080? Run out of enhancements?

[mammo1789]

That's just the problem. I DO have it set to 720x480 and it still only captures to 240. Do I need to do something extra with VD?

From the picture i see that you have chosen UYVY for color space, I think that most capture cards can capture (natively) only in YUV2 format or RGB variant trough colorpsace conv. Chose YUV2 like in the picture and should be capturing in 720x480

[jadoggin]

What does VirtualDub show in the preview window while capturing? Is that half high also? Are you applying any filters? What compression codec are you using? How are you viewing the result that's giving you a half high image? What does MediaInfo say about the file? Post a sample?

When I capture I see the source image in the preview twice - one over the top of the other. I'm sure this is the reason. No filters being applied. I'm using the Huffyuv compression. I've attached some images to answer the rest of your questions.

That's just the problem. I DO have it set to 720x480 and it still only captures to 240. Do I need to do something extra with VD?

From the picture i see that you have chosen UYVY for color space, I think that most capture cards can capture (natively) only in YUV2 format or RGB variant trough colorpsace conv. Chose YUV2 like in the picture and should be capturing in 720x480

When I choose this, I get an error that my "capture device does not support this format".

In VDub Capture's top menu, click "Video" -> "Histogram". Turn off the histogram before you start capture.

The histogram is only showing an entire black area except for a single bar.

[jagabo]

The stacked image in the preview window may mean it's failing to weave the two fields together, just stacking one on top of the other. If that's what's happening it can be fixed with AviSynth. But the AVI file is 720x240 29.97 fps implying only one of the fields was captured. Try changing the frame rate to 59.94 and see if every field is different. Capture a shot with a lot more motion to make it obvious.

It's not unusual for devices to support UYVY rather than YUY2. It's just a different ordering of the components.

Regarding the missing histogram: Turn off Video -> Overlay and turn on Video -> Preview. You may need to reverse that for actual capture.

In the future switch MediaInfo to text mode, View -> Text. It will give a lot more information and can copy/paste that text into the post.

[jadoggin]

The stacked image in the preview window may mean it's failing to weave the two fields together, just stacking one on top of the other. If that's what's happening it can be fixed with AviSynth. But the AVI file is 720x240 29.97 fps implying only one of the fields was captured. Try changing the frame rate to 59.94 and see if every field is different. Capture a shot with a lot more motion to make it obvious.

It's not unusual for devices to support UYVY rather than YUY2. It's just a different ordering of the components.

Regarding the missing histogram: Turn off Video -> Overlay and turn on Video -> Preview. You may need to reverse that for actual capture.

In the future switch MediaInfo to text mode, View -> Text. It will give a lot more information and can copy/paste that text into the post.

Changing the framerate to 59.94 didn't help. It's still trying to capture with the video stacked one over the other. Any chance someone would be willing to connect with Teamviewer or Webex to help me get this sorted?

[jagabo]

Changing the framerate to 59.94 didn't help. It's still trying to capture with the video stacked one over the other.

But did it capture as 59.94 frames per second? Did it capture all fields or did it repeat each field?

Analog video is transmitted as a sequence of fields, not frames. 59.94 720x240 fields per second. Most capture devices capture a pair of fields and then weave them together into a 720x480 frame at 29.97 frames per second. I'm speculating that your capture device doesn't weave them together, it just returns 59.94 720x240 fields per second. In which case you can weave pairs of fields together yourself later.

[jadoggin]

Changing the framerate to 59.94 didn't help. It's still trying to capture with the video stacked one over the other.

But did it capture as 59.94 frames per second? Did it capture all fields or did it repeat each field?

Analog video is transmitted as a sequence of fields, not frames. 59.94 720x240 fields per second. Most capture devices capture a pair of fields and then weave them together into a 720x480 frame at 29.97 frames per second. I'm speculating that your capture device doesn't weave them together, it just returns 59.94 720x240 fields per second. In which case you can weave pairs of fields together yourself later.

Yes it looks like it did. Here is the information from MediaInfo:

neral
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Jadon\Desktop\test.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 53.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 13s 413ms
Overall bit rate                         : 33.4 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : HuffYUV
Format version                           : Version 2
Codec ID                                 : HFYU
Duration                                 : 12s 980ms
Bit rate                                 : 32.8 Mbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3.000
Frame rate                               : 59.940 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 3.171
Stream size                              : 50.8 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 13s 413ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 2.46 MiB (5%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 9 ms (0.55 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration             : 19 ms

And just to experiment, I installed the EzGrabber software that came with the Diamond USB capture device. It captured perfectly in 720x480. Below are the details from MediaInfo for what I captured with EzGrabber:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Jadon\Desktop\20141115-100917.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 270 MiB
Duration                                 : 13s 450ms
Overall bit rate                         : 168 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : UYVY
Codec ID/Info                            : Uncompressed 16bpp. YUV 4:2:2 (Y sample at every pixel, U and V sampled at every second pixel horizontally on each line). A macropixel contains 2 pixels in 1 u_int32.
Duration                                 : 13s 449ms
Bit rate                                 : 167 Mbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
Frame rate                               : 30.115 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 15.999
Stream size                              : 267 MiB (99%)

Audio
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 13s 450ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 2.46 MiB (1%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)

I just don't understand why VirtualDub is so difficult.

[jagabo]

How about a sample of the 59.94 fps video? One with more motion than you last sample. A medium speed panning shot, for example.

If the software that came with the device works, why not use that?

[jadoggin]

If the software that came with the device works, why not use that?

Because everyone keeps telling me that VirtualDub is superior to all other capture software. If I won't get a better capture, then for sure I would go that route.

Note: I just tried using VirtualDub from my laptop (considerably faster) and works without stacking the frames. I double checked all my settings between my laptop and desktop and they are the same. I don't understand...

[jadoggin]

Here's a sample.

*** Edit: the sample I took (even though I set it to 59.94) still shows in MediaInfo as 29.97.

[jagabo]

If the software that came with the device works, why not use that?

Because everyone keeps telling me that VirtualDub is superior to all other capture software.

It's not. It's just more configurable so it potentially works with a wider variety of devices. But that also means there's more that must be configured to get it working properly. If the software that came with the device works properly (and that's a big IF, by the way) and allows you to save with a lossless codec the caps will be just as good as anything you could get from VirtualDub.

Note: I just tried using VirtualDub from my laptop (considerably faster) and works without stacking the frames. I double checked all my settings between my laptop and desktop and they are the same. I don't understand...

Same OS? Same drivers?