why won't vidoe play ?????

[xtal_01]

Hello,

I have a video file XXX.ts that was downloaded from a streaming site.

Using VLC player, I converted it to mp4 (Video-H.264 + MP3).

It plays on the VLC player fine.

I tried playing it on the Windows media player ... will not play. I can move the slider along and see a still picture but it won't play. I downloaded the VLC codec pack so I am confused why it won't play.

Just trying to understand why.

Thanks ...... Mike

[DSperber]

TS files are "transport streams", which typically are OTA television encoded with MPEG-2. The TS "wrapper" is just another alternative to say MPG, which an MPEG-2 file can also exist within.

Also, typically audio in television programs is AC3 which supports Dolby Digital 2.0/5.1.

Without knowing what the internal data content and codec was inside your original TS file, it's not really possible to know if VLC correctly "converted" its video to MP4 with its audio correctly "converted" to MP3.

To go back to the beginning, I'd suggest you install (free) GSpot Video Appliance, which is a program to identify the audio and video codecs involved with any form of A/V file. Tell us what GSpot identifies for both, on both the original TS file as well as the output MP4 file from VLC's conversion.

Also, GSpot can attempt to "render" both the audio and video components (or both, simultaneously). Pushing the right buttons (at the bottom of the GSpot GUI window) will tell you whether or not the audio and video pieces can actually be rendered on your system, using the installed codecs on your system. Again, the original TS file was probably MPEG-2 with AC3 audio, but what VLC's conversion to MP4 and MP3 audio did I have no idea.

Finally, I'd highly recommend VideoRedo TV Suite as an "editing" tool. It's not free but it has a free trial. So you could repeat your conversion from the original TS file to an alternative output format (say your MP4 H.264 target with MP3 audio), using VideoRedo. See if the result is any more playable using various media players than it was when getting converted by VLC.

NOTE: I'm at least a bit skeptical that the audio output from VLC was MP3. I think it might have been MP4A. GSpot will tell you.

[xtal_01]

OK ... so I downloaded gspot and ran it on both the input and output files.

Again, I am a bit confused ... there is no results for he input file and is says codec status undetermined for the output.

I have included a screen shot of the the results.

Do I need to determine more about the input file before I can convert it>

Thanks for all the help ...... Mike


PS .... Just as another thought ... the VLC player has a bunch of settings on the conversion end ... I did not change any but maybe I should and try converting it again.

On video I set it is set to H-264 but I can use mpeg 1, 2 or 4 plus divx and a few others

On audio it is set to MPEG Audio but I can set it to mp3, mpeg 4 (aac), A52/ac3, or a bunch of others.

Any suggestions as to what to try?

Thanks .... Mike

[DSperber]

If you stretch the GSpot window from its fairly small default size, it will be lots easier to see what's being presented and read all the text.

I just examined one of my own TS files (a 2-hour OTA/ATSC TV show), and it shows the same as yours. It's an MPEG-2 transport stream, and that is all that is shown. No specific audio or video codecs shown, because TS is the formal "wrapper" for MPEG-2... which is itself the codec, which includes both audio and video.



But down in the bottom of the GSpot window, there is that "proposed codec solutions and tests" area I mentioned earlier. For the TS files the 1/2/3 buttons in both the video and audio columns are grayed out and cannot be pushed. But the 1 button in the MS A/V column is lit up, and you can push it. GSpot will try to invoke what it believes should be able to play the video and audio for the TS file.

If this works, it will then display "render ok, the following of filters was used" and it will show something on the next line. In my case, since the audio in the TS was DD5.1, the AC3 codec was used for the decoding and that's what appears on the second line data. And now the 2 button in the MS A/V column is lit up.

When I then push the 2 button, the video with audio starts playing in a small window in the "test" pane, along with the usual PLAY, PAUSE and STOP buttons in the same pane. Audio and video are presented.




Now as far as your MP4 file out of VLC, I also have an MP4 file of my own (I didn't make it, but it's standard). Here is the GSpot analysis of it.




Again it demonsrates the inability to play video or audio separately (probably just a weakness of current GGpot) but when the 1 button is pushed in the MS A/V column again that works, and the 2 button lights up. When I then push 2, the same "test" pane appears and the video with audio is again presented.




Note that for my MP4 file the video codec is shown as H.264/MPEG-4 AVC like yours. Your info shows something relating to Quicktime, whereas mine doesn't, perhaps relating to what/how VLC creates H.264 output on your system.

But notice that my audio is shown as MP4A: MPEG-4 AAC LC, whereas yours is shown as MP4A: MPEG-1. Your audio is not MP3 as you say was designated as the VLC audio output.

Note that in my case the primary filter used was "MainConcept (Nikon) MP4 Demultiplexer", which obviously is present on my system. Can't recall if that came from installing the Nikon Viewer software which came with my Nikon digital camera, but I think it did. I also have Windows Media Center operational on this PC, which might explain the Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder feeding the AC3 Filter to handle the sound.

[xtal_01]

Wow .... I have a lot to learn ... but using this program is great, it explains a lot of what I have been reading up on.

I actually did hit the buttons on the bottom, but I didn't realize how important that information was.

I will run it again and post the results.

I did notice right away, even though the VLC player said MP3 audio, when I went into the details, it was not set to this! In fact it will always say mp3 even if I set it to wav or acc or ????

I truly appreciate all the explanation!

I am one of these people who really want to understand why things work or don't work.

Mike

[DSperber]

Just for another perspective, although it doesn't approach things quite the same way as Gspot nor does it provide an actual "player" capability for selecting various alternate codecs or filters that might be available, another very highly regarded Media Utility is named "Mediainfo". Very useful to have.

And Mediainfo shows internal details to a much deeper degree than GSpot shows. It also allows for a variety of presentations of that info, from high-level summary to in-depth detail in a whole set of different presentation formats (i.e. the VIEW item on the menu bar).

So, my TS file (which showed pretty much nothing from GSpot) looks like this in BASIC (summary) view from MediaInfo:

[DSperber]

It plays on the VLC player fine.

I tried playing it on the Windows media player ... will not play. I can move the slider along and see a still picture but it won't play. I downloaded the VLC codec pack so I am confused why it won't play.

Do you have to use Windows Media Player?

Have you tried PotPlayer? Doesn't need any external codec pack installed, and it can play everything.

[DB83]

There is danger here to over-complicate the issue. The question is "Why does my video not play". The answer is usually lack of codecs or filters.

The OP has installed VLC Codec Pack. As far as I can tell this codec pack has nothing to do with Videolan the creators of VLC player. It appears to bundle various codecs and filters with the VLC player. Codec packs are bad news as they often screw up a perfectly good system. The golden rule is just install those codecs you need and, as stated, mediainfo should tell you what you need. This pack also has modified versions of ffdshow. Again, the person who did these mods does not appear as an official developer of ffdshow. I may be wrong with these but if I am now the alarm bells are ringing.

VLC uses its own built-in codecs. I suspect it also uses these codecs to convert video. So they would then work with VLC but possibly not externally.

Most on here would use software such as avidemux or handbrake to convert. There are also other conversion suites. Some better than others. Just search the forums for guidance.

My suggestions. Uninstall that codec pack now. Just install the standard ffdshow filter direct from the link on this site plus any stand-alone codecs you need.

And, as above, if you really do need Windows Media Player, that with ffdshow installed really should work.

[DSperber]

I still would suggest another experiment, i.e. using the trial version of VideoRedo to convert the original TS file to H.264 MP4. And then see if you can play the resulting MP4 file with Windows Media Player and get both audio and video.

As was just noted, installing ANY external codec pack is always a questionable idea, as it often causes breakage and instability and unexpected results with fundamental Windows Media Foundation components that really do have remarkable ability to play almost everything... without the use of any other external codecs.

I have installed FFDSHOW (because it's required for multiAVCHD which I use to burn BluRay discs from copy-freely OTA television WTV programs recorded using Windows Media Center and edited with VideoRedo, choosing NO RE-ENCODING but opting to write out the original untouched pristine MPEG-2 HDTV content into MPG wrappers for use by multiAVCHD), but I've un-checked every audio and video media format that I know is already supported by Win7 natively.

I've also installed AC3 Lite for support of AC3 audio on my system.

And I don't use Windows Media Player or VideoLAN (VLC), but rather use PotPlayer as my "universal video media player" and Winamp as my "universal audio media player" because neither of those requires any external codec packs to do their job and yet they can play EVERY type of audio/video file. Again, the point is to NOT INSTALL EXTERNAL CODEC PACKS IF YOU DON'T NEED THEM.

Certainly standard H.264 MP4 files produced by VideoRedo from TS source files will play (with both audio and video) on my own Windows Media Player, and I don't have any external codec packs installed. There's got to be something hokey about what VLC did to produce your audio in MPEG-1 form in that output MP4 file which is why it's not being heard when using Windows Media Player to play the MP4 result. I don't have that problem playing the MP4 file produced by VideoRedo.

But producing the H.264 MP4 files requires re-encoding of the underlying original MPEG-2 HDTV content (which I don't want to do), so that even though the H.264 version is excellent video quality image and about 75% the size of the original MPEG-2 clips (in MPG wrappers), it's not the original 100% bit-perfect identical original MPEG-2 HDTV content exactly the same with 100% perfect HDTV quality same as it aired on TV... which is what i want on my edited BluRays (for posterity). I want HDTV on an authored BluRay disc with navigation capability (instead of stored on sequential DVHS tape) which is what multiAVCHD lets me create, but with still exactly bit-perfect HDTV image quality as it originally appeared on TV. No re-encoding for me and my "clip" BluRays.


Here's the GSpot info for the WTV -> MPG output (retaining bit-perfect untouched non-reencoded original MPEG-2) from an edited clip from a TS (i.e. WTV) recording:



And here is the GSpot info for the WTV -> H.264 MP4 re-encodeded clip (which again plays perfectly audio and video using WMP on my system):




The H.264 MP4 file is about 75% the size of the MPG clip, but has a lower bitrate and a lower "QF" (i.e. measure of "image quality") since the MPG version contains the identical exact original MPEG-2 HDTV content but in a new MPG wrapper instead of the original WTV wrapper. In contrast, the H.264 MP4 version is a re-encoded (i.e. re-compressed) version, obtaining a nearly identical visual result but "not quite perfect" (kind of like high-quality MP3 vs. FLAC).

Also note that the MPG version of the clip retains the original 6-channel DD5.1 AC3 audio, whereas the MP4 version appears to have been created with a 2-channel stereo AC3 audio downmix. I suspect I might have been able to override that default, to retain the original DD5.1 audio in the MP4 output, but didn't think to do that.

[xtal_01]

WOW ..... I am always amazed at how something I think is "simple" can get so complicated!

OK ... so now that I have a much better understanding of what is going on, let me back up one step.

I wish I had talked with you guys months ago!

I actually downloaded the VLC codec pack months ago for a different reason. I had a video that would not play ( movie was fine, no audio) on my windows multimedia. I made the bad assumption that somehow windows multimedia player was the "standard". So I downloaded the codec pack and the video played fine on it. I had no idea I could just download one codec or that it may be better to convert the file to a codec that comes with windows or to not use the windows player at all!

Just FYI ... I just checked this movie using gspot and it says audio codec AC3. video codec ACV1. When I checked it on midiainfo, and hit the "got to player" or "go to website of this video codec". ... both took me to quicktime 7 .

Not that it matters if I can play it on the windows player ... again I just assumed it was the "standard" but would not AC3 codec have been in the windows player?

And back to the topic at hand ....

When I downloaded the streaming video, I used both livestreamer ( gave me a flv file ) and ffmpeg ( gave me a ts file ).

Using both gspot and mediainfo, the ts and flv files look identical ... same size, avc video stream, acc audio stream, same everything.

I do worry about quality .... I have been confused forever about mpeg2 vs mp4 .... every site says got to the new "H.264" standard but in my mind if mpeg2 is "larger" it must be less compressed and there for a better quality video.

Sorry, off topic again .... way to may thoughts running through my head!

Anyway, in order to play this video on "most" players, preserve the best possible quality and one day be able to burn these to a disc ( just have them backed up on dual 1tb external drives right now so I won't lose them ) ..... what should I do?

Do I just leave them alone a play them on a different player? Do I convert them .... and if so to what?

I don't mind uninstalling the codec pack if that is what you guys recommend ( I have tried to keep my system down to a minim ... I realize the more "junk" I put on the worse things get ).

I don't mind loosing the VLC player .... again, I only used this one because it was "bragged" about on a different site.

The idea of using a player that does not need codec's awesome!

Heck, I don't even know what makes one player better than another .... as long as they play a video, I assume it is good??????

WOW ... sorry for so many questions .... I just want to understand the "why" when it comes to video files ( I can almost always get things to work .... but obviously not the "right" way).

Thanks again ...... Mike

PS .... I attached the gspot and mediainfo screen shots of the original files. I can have the other screen shots ( flv and mp4 of the files I originally started this post talking about ) in anyone wants to see them.

[DB83]

I am out of here now.

Read the forum's rules about downloaded movies esp from torrent sites where copyright has been infringed.

[LMotlow]

Likewise.

The rules are here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/72386-Forum-rules-Acceptable-Use-Policy-%28AUP%29?.

[xtal_01]

Sorry ... should have read the rules first.

I have edited the post to abide by the rules.

Thanks again ..... Mike

[xtal_01]

I was just about to download "potplayer" and then I read this ....

"Variety of Codecs, Easy to Manage
No need to install different codecs all the time when using the player.
Supports OpenCodec so users can easily add whatever codecs they want."

So just do I understand, potplayer obviously needs codecs. You say it plays everything. Is this just because if has all the codecs you can imagine built into itself or ????

What makes it better ( or worse ) than VLC or any other player?

Thanks again so much .... Mike

[DSperber]

I was just about to download "potplayer" and then I read this ....

"Variety of Codecs, Easy to Manage
No need to install different codecs all the time when using the player.
Supports OpenCodec so users can easily add whatever codecs they want."

So just do I understand, potplayer obviously needs codecs. You say it plays everything. Is this just because if has all the codecs you can imagine built into itself or ????

Yes. For virtually every common type of media file it has everything it needs for playback built into the program.

I suppose its support of OpenCodec is potentially for something new that comes along which is not inherently yet supported by the program, but for me everything I've run across IS already supported by the program itself... and without any external codecs needed.

What makes it better ( or worse ) than VLC or any other player?

There are plenty of ways to skin this cat. There are many many media players, including many that again have built-in support for all the common standard media formats so that they don't require an external codec. I like the fact that PotPlayer plays everything (including MOV, DIVX, XVID, AVI, MPG, WTV, MP4, TS, FLV, etc., etc.,) and has not failed me yet.

I also happen to like the customization options available with PotPlayer, and the way it looks when playing (which I have configured to have no Windows window frame around it, but simply it looks like a "free-floating image-only" playing on my desktop whose player controls are normally invisible but reappear if I hover the mouse over the bottom of the image). In the end it's really just personal taste, and what you like to look at, and what onscreen audio/video controls you need or ever use, etc., which either do or do not take up any screen real estate. Running in window-mode but without a window frame, a 1920x1080 image uses true full-screen (with no scaling required) on a 1920x1080 screen, and I like that.

In the end it's just a matter of personal taste and preference as far as media players go. There's probably not one "best".

More importantly I like VideoRedo for my editing needs regarding copy-freely WTV content recorded by Windows Media Center. I don't care about saving bytes on file size insofar as edited clips, and having the original untouched 100% bit-perfect un-recompressed version "for posterity" is what I seek. So I simply save my clips to MPG (with unrecompressed original frame-copy MPEG-2 content inside). Trying to save as MP4 (with H.264 AVC inside) requires recompression (and thus at least some "loss of quality") and processing time, which while fairly fast with VideoRedo will still give me something that's other than the bit-perfect original.

While probably "good enough" in MP4 form, it's like high-quality MP3 (aka lossy psychoacoustic equivalent of original WAV) vs. FLAC (aka lossless bit-perfect ZIP-like better recompress of original WAV) , which again many argue is indistinguishable in a blind A/B-test. But if file size is not critical (as it's not to me), then why not have FLAC (which is smaller than WAV, but bit-perfect equivalent) which is after all what MP3 is "striving to duplicate"? MP4 provides no real advantage over MPG(MPEG-2) other than high-quality compression at a lower bitrate and correspondingly smaller file sizes (thus requiring lower bandwidths to deliver via cable/satellite). If the original content is MPEG-2 (rather than newer MPEG-4), then I want my edited clips to also be that original MPEG-2 untouched and unrecompressed.

Personal taste.

[xtal_01]

Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the best explanation I have ever had as to why I should leave things as mpeg2 rather than mp4. I also don't care about space so why chose lower quality ( and I understand the argument .... can you notice the difference ... probably not but why not error on the side of quality ).

I will definitely try potplayer. VLC has been fine but I have no kinship to any player. I have used many over the years ... some better ... some worse ... I only tried VLC because it was recommend to me.

Now some advice please .....

My streaming file with a ts file extension. Even if I can play it on potplayer ( or any other player ), would it be wise to convert it to some other format?

If so, they what format? According to the VLC player ( my only reference at the moment ), the TS file is made up of MPEG-2 + MPGA. Mediainfo says MPEG-TS, video stream: AVC, Audio stream AAC (mpeg 4 ...????).

I will keep the mpeg2 video but what should I do with the audio ( or maybe nothing ).

Should I think of "ts" as a shell and I am thinking of putting the video and audio data into a different shell?

I truly appreciate all your patience with me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

[DSperber]

If you use VideoRedo to do the editing from original input source in whatever external wrapper form but that deep-down is MPEG-2 content, if the output format is also essentially MPEG-2 under the covers but perhaps re-wrapped inside of a different format external wrapper, VideoRedo does what's called "fast frame copy" which is VERY FAST. It's doing nothing to the content, so every original MPEG-2 frame is simply copied from the original unwrapped data stream exactly as is with no processing to it whatsoever. That's why it's called "fast frame copy", and that's why it's 100% identical in quality to the original. It's just been re-wrapped inside of a different external wrapper.

So... WTV, MPG, TS, M2TS... these are all just different packaging, but all carrying the identical MPEG-2 content inside. WTV may have additional capabilities (used by Windows Media Center) for extended metatdata information, as well as for providing DRM (digital rights management) to provide impossible-to-break copy protection for supporting copy-protected content provided by cable systems to cablecard-enabled internal/external/network TV tuners (e.g. Ceton, SilconDust, Hauppauge, etc.).

That also means the audio carried inside the MPEG-2 content is also untouched by VideoRedo no matter what the output wrapper choice is.

So in the end, your choice of wrapper (if you want to re-package the original TS) is up to you... but could possibly be based on the media player you plan to use and whether or not it includes support for that particular type of wrapper. Or, if you plan to use something like multiAVCHD to create your own BluRay discs to keep this content permanently, there again may be limitations on what external file types are acceptable to add to the project.

I've chosen MPG as my external wrapper, as it seems to be the most widely accepted packaging format for holding MPEG-2 content. It's understood and allowed by every player and editing tool software I've ever run across. Seemed like a reasonable justification for going with MPG. Turns out PotPlayer plays them all, so one's as good as another anyway... except for MP4.

In the end, all of these are content-wise identical in image and sound quality, since they all still hold the original unaltered MPEG-2 stream. Only if you decide to recompress into a smaller H.264 MP4 package, possibly with downmixed audio inside to produce a still smaller output file size, do you now have a much smaller result. But you also don't have the original image quality.

Here's a comparison of the sizes for the identical original HDTV recording clip in its various wrapper forms:

[xtal_01]

Yes, one day I do want to burn a lot of the material I have been saving up for years onto blueray.

For now .... I'm lucky I have a computer that works at all.

My wife and I have been living for 2 years in an RV while we build an accessible house here in VT. She is paralyzed and rather than modify an older house we decided to be our own general contractors, live on site and build.

I sub contracted out the heavy work and have been doing the rest myself.

We hit rock so instead of a basement we built up ... great idea but now we need an elevator .... quotes came in at $35 - $40K. We don't have that kind of money! So I bought a used electric forklift for $850, stripped off the mast and hydraulic, moved them into the house and am building an elevator.

I am trying to get us in here before winter ... two VT winters in an RV is two too many. Her wheelchair barely has room to turn around in it.

"playing" on the computer and trying to learn more about video files is a great way to unwind at night ... although she "gets on me" when I spend to much time on it and not the house.

Once we get in, I need to put together a new computer with a blueray drive. My computer died so I picked up a used dell in a hurry ... not good but it works ... first commuter I have owned that I have not put together from parts.

Anyway ..... not really much difference in file size.

I will either keep the original file the way it is (.ts) or change it to something like mpg so it is ready to burn when I eventually get around to it.

It never fails to amaze me how little I know about a subject.

I truly appreciate all your help and explanations. I am obviously no expert but now at least I feel I can ask the correct questions and understand the basics!

Thanks so much once again ....... Mike