Any pointers for better quality DVD authoring?[Solved]

[hstrent51]

Friends asked me to record Seahawks football games for their kids who moved to AZ from WA and now don't get the Hawks games.

I'm using a Hauppauge Win-TV HVR 1600 internal capture card and WinTV 7 to capture the broadcasts. The capture card is connected to the Comcast analog set top box converter. OS is Windows 8.1. Capture card uses a hardware mpg2 encoding. I then author the DVD using DVD Flick. Quality of the video playback after authoring is certainly watchable but more than a few artifacts.

I realize this is a very broad question but what would be the best place to start in improving the quality of the video playback? What's probably the weak link here? Is it the capture card? Is it the WinTV 7 software? Is it the DVD Flick authoring software? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[jagabo]

Record with a video bitrate around ~9000 kbps and spread the recording across 2 or 3 DVDs (1 hour per DVD).

[Noahtuck]

jagabo is probably on the right track, but even with the info you gave none of it really helps.

How long is the video (time) and are you putting it on one SL or DL dvdr ?

Length and bitrate are the most important things to know, resolution is one also but seeing as you pretty much said it was on DVD we can assume it is standard DVD resolution.

[sophisticles]

I just checked the specs of that capture card, it can record 1080i ATSC digital TV and QAM digital cable TV, in addition to analog TV.

What cable service do you have?

Edit, I just noticed you are using Comcast analog, which will limit the quality if your captures. Do as jagabo suggested and up the capture settings to the max, which should equal 1-2gb of disk used for every hour of recorded video.

[jagabo]

Do as jagabo suggested and up the capture settings to the max, which should equal 1-2gb of disk used for every hour of recorded video.

I suggested 9000 kbps which will give about 4 GB/hr , 1 hour per DVD. High action sports requires lots of bitrate to retain image quality.

[hstrent51]

Recordings are about 3-3.5 hr. long.

Capture quality is on "best" but I see no setting to actually set a numerical bit rate.

Yeah, I had already decided to break the capture into multiple segments with the Win-TV 7 scheduler so as to be able to use the relatively inexpensive single layer DVD media that my friend gave me to use. But I haven't actually tried that yet. So far I've only tried burning to one dual layer disc. One thing that gave me terrible quality was transcoding from mpg2 to mpg4 using Handbrake.

Thanks for your input.

sophisticles, I note you commented on my analog service. Far as I know that's the only way to do it as we live in a topgraphic/geographic hole with no local TV stations and digital antenna reception is out of the question here. Even Comcast's HD digital cable service is converted to analog once it gets to the box isn't it as it has to be descrambled due to the proprietary signal.

[jagabo]

Capture quality is on "best" but I see no setting to actually set a numerical bit rate.

Then capture at best quality and split the video into ~4 GB segments and burn each segment to DVD without reencoding. There may be Registry tweaks that let you specify the bitrate.

Yeah, I had already decided to break the capture into multiple segments with the Win-TV 7 scheduler so as to be able to use the relatively inexpensive single layer DVD media that my friend gave me

You can also capture as one big file and split it with programs like Mpg2Cut2, etc.

One thing that gave me terrible quality was transcoding from mpg2 to mpg4 using Handbrake.

Handbrake isn't set up to encode interlaced video but it can with a few tweaks. That would allow you to reduce the size to about half with only a minor loss of quality. But mpeg 4 isn't part of the DVD spec so your friends might not be able to watch the games on their TV.

Even Comcast's HD digital cable service is converted to analog once it gets to the box isn't it as it has to be descrambled due to the proprietary signal.

No. Digital channels are digitally encrypted and can be sent to the TV digitally via HDMI. Conversion to analog is only necessary for analog outputs on the cable box.

Until recently the FCC required that cable companies carry local channels unencrypted, and I believe most cable companies still do. If you have digital cable and the games are unencrypted you can use the QAM tuner on the capture device to "download" the digital stream -- though that may require reencoding to make it DVD compatible.

[hstrent51]

I haven't checked it lately but several years ago Comcast was providing channels 1-20 something in a way that you did not need the descrambler box but I think those were still analog signals then. I could still record programs on those channels with a retail VCR, ha, ha!

So I guess I'm confused about what are local channels. We have no TV stations nearby. The closest "local" stations are in Seattle 85 miles away: channel 4,5, and 7 but they are ABC, NBC and CBS affiliates. The Seahawks' games generally come on Fox which is channel 13.

[usually_quiet]

Even Comcast's HD digital cable service is converted to analog once it gets to the box isn't it as it has to be descrambled due to the proprietary signal.

No. Digital channels are digitally encrypted and can be sent to the TV digitally via HDMI. Conversion to analog is only necessary for analog outputs on the cable box.

Until recently the FCC required that cable companies carry local channels unencrypted, and I believe most cable companies still do. If you have digital cable and the games are unencrypted you can use the QAM tuner on the capture device to "download" the digital stream -- though that may require reencoding to make it DVD compatible.

Comcast was one of the companies that petitioned the FCC to drop the requirement for providing local stations in clear QAM. Comcast had to make the switch one service area at time because they didn't have enough DTAs to provide them to all their Basic tier subscribers, but by now Comcast has likely completed the process. I'm a Comcast subscriber and lost all clear QAM locals in October 2013. Comcast eliminated all analog service here in 2010.

[usually_quiet]

So I guess I'm confused about what are local channels. We have no TV stations nearby. The closest "local" stations are in Seattle 85 miles away: channel 4,5, and 7 but they are ABC, NBC and CBS affiliates. The Seahawks' games generally come on Fox which is channel 13.

Those would be your local stations as far as the FCC was concerned.

[Edit] I did a search and it appears Comcast eliminated any remaining clear QAM channels in its Seattle service area last year. It doesn't seem likely your area would still have any left by now.

[hstrent51]

I also may be operating on an incorrect assumption about the set top box. Does the Comcast set top box descramble the digital signal and then convert it to analog or does it just descramble the digital signal? I have always assumed the former was the case.

[hstrent51]

So after reading jagabo's post again in #7 I see that it answered my question in post #11. Then I was incorrect when in post #1 I stated I was recording analog. Since the Hauppauge card has both digital and analog input I was recording in digital. So the issues of Fox being a local station is a non-issue in this case. Correct? I still need the set top box.

[usually_quiet]

I also may be operating on an incorrect assumption about the set top box. Does the Comcast set top box descramble the digital signal and then convert it to analog or does it just descramble the digital signal? I have always assumed the former was the case.

All Comcast boxes descramble the digital signal and convert it to analog for their analog connections. The outgoing RF connection supplies an SD analog version of the digital channel being tuned on analog channel 3 or 4.

So after reading jagabo's post again in #7 I see that it answered my question in post #11. Then I was incorrect when in post #1 I stated I was recording analog. Since the Hauppauge card has both digital and analog input I was recording in digital. So the issues of Fox being a local station is a non-issue in this case. Correct? I still need the set top box.

A few years ago you may have had some analog channels. Comcast only eliminated analog channels for residential customers in 2010 or thereabouts. You are currently recording a digital signal converted to standard definition analog by your cable box.

[Edit] At this point, Comcast subscribers need a set top box to record using the HVR-1600 and other PC TV tuners. A CableCARD tuner can be used to record the digital signal, but requires renting an M-Card type CableCARD device from Comcast. Recording Comcast service with a CableCARD tuner usually works out well once it is set up, but that isn't always easy. Renting a CableCARD costs extra if you already have a cable box, and you will have to pay a montly HD technology fee if you don't currently have HD service.

[hstrent51]

All Comcast boxes descramble the digital signal and convert it to analog for their analog connections. The outgoing RF connection supplies an SD analog version of the digital channel being tuned on analog channel 3 or 4.

Yeah, I have my set top boxes set to channel three. The box is the tuner. I can't use the capture card itself to change channels because that takes me off channel 3, the feed channel.

So I was thinking correctly all along about the analog conversion thing with the set top box! Do some of the boxes also output digital and if so what kind of connector does that employ? Would that be like HDMI?

Please forgive my noobie confustion.

[jagabo]

If you are capturing DVI, HDMI, or DisplayPort you are capturing a digital signal. If you are capturing cable coax, composite, s-video, or component video you are capturing analog.

[usually_quiet]

All Comcast boxes descramble the digital signal and convert it to analog for their analog connections. The outgoing RF connection supplies an SD analog version of the digital channel being tuned on analog channel 3 or 4.

Yeah, I have my set top boxes set to channel three. The box is the tuner. I can't use the capture card itself to change channels because that takes me off channel 3, the feed channel.

So I was thinking correctly all along about the analog conversion thing with the set top box! Do some of the boxes also output digital and if so what kind of connector does that employ? Would that be like HDMI?

Please forgive my noobie confustion.

It is possible to record from HDMI. You need Comcast HD service, an HD cable box, an HDMI capture device, and a HDMI splitter that removes HDCP copy protection from an HDMI signal as a side effect, plus software. With a little luck and skill, you can even set up the PC to change channels on most Comcast boxes. I'm recording with an HDMI capture device, but I won't say it was especially easy to set up and it cost me over $200 (for the HDMI capture device, the HDMI cables, the editing software to remove commercials, and the HDMI splitter).

[hstrent51]

One of our five televisions does have the HD cable box and the TV is connected to the box via HDMI. Unfortunately, it's not the box my PC and capture card are using. It's mostly my wife's TV 'cause it has on-demand and extra stuff that she likes. Neither am I willing to put out the bucks for the extra equipment you mention just to be able to do digital capturing. It's just not something I do very often. But I really appreciate your patience in helping me understand all this better.

So what I came away from this with is that digital TV service get's converted to analog unless you have an HD cable box and are connecting the TV to that box via HDMI input.

[usually_quiet]

One of our five televisions does have the HD cable box and the TV is connected to the box via HDMI. Unfortunately, it's not the box my PC and capture card are using. It's mostly my wife's TV 'cause it has on-demand and extra stuff that she likes. Neither am I willing to put out the bucks for the extra equipment you mention just to be able to do digital capturing. It's just not something I do very often. But I really appreciate your patience in helping me understand all this better.

The expenses associated with HD capture can be discouraging, although I'm not unhappy that I did it. I thought about a CableCARD tuner, which is better in some ways, but I wanted to keep my cable box and didn't like the idea of paying $7.45/month for a CableCARD (the Comcast additional outlet fee minus the $2.50 customer owned equipment credit) because I already had a cable box.

So what I came away from this with is that digital TV service get's converted to analog unless you have an HD cable box and are connecting the TV to that box via HDMI input.

Yes that's more or less right. The HDMI splitter allows connecting both an HDMI capture device and a TV to an HD cable box, although it isn't possible to record one thing and watch another because there is only one tuner, the cable box.

[hstrent51]

It frosts me that you just can't go out and buy the DVR device you want. You have to "rent" stuff from Comcast that will work with their signals. Ultimate greed. They're not satisfied with making money hand over fist from just selling the cable service they also have to pinch a few more bucks from us by forcing us to play their game with the peripheral equipment as well. And they won't even let you buy it. You have to rent it.

[hstrent51]

Ah, ha! Figured out that you guys were talking about the bit rate of the incoding not the capturing when you advised setting it to 9000 kbps. Found that control in DVD Flick and it makes a huge improvement in playback quality. Thanks, everyone.

[jagabo]

Ah, ha! Figured out that you guys were talking about the bit rate of the incoding not the capturing when you advised setting it to 9000 kbps. Found that control in DVD Flick and it makes a huge improvement in playback quality. Thanks, everyone.

If your captures are already DVD compliant you don't want to reencode. Doing so, even at high bitrates, will only decrease the quality.

[hstrent51]

Captures already DVD compliant? They're in mpg2 which is recognized by most modern players I think but not the old one I have I don't believe. Not sure of the capabilities of the machine of the people who will be receiving the video. Besides, one may want to insert chapters and such which would require re-encoding I imagine.

[jagabo]

MPEG 2 is the video codec used by all DVD players. If it is encoded with DVD compliant settings it only needs a remux to VOB and authoring. You may need to convert audio from MP3 to AC3.

[usually_quiet]

Captures already DVD compliant? They're in mpg2 which is recognized by most modern players I think but not the old one I have I don't believe. Not sure of the capabilities of the machine of the people who will be receiving the video. Besides, one may want to insert chapters and such which would require re-encoding I imagine.

The MPEG-2 video captured by the HVR-1600 should be DVD compliant, especially using the Better and Best settings in WinTV 7. ...but I think the HVR-1600 uses MP2 audio for analog captures, and that might need to be converted to AC3 or PCM for authoring.

Although Dolby Digital (AC3), DTS, PCM(uncompressed audio), and MPEG-1 Layer2 (MP2 or MPA) are allowed by the DVD spec (and they are the only types of audio allowed), there is a catch. According to the NTSC part of the DVD spec, which is what we follow in the USA, one audio track must be DD or PCM. This means that technically, MPEG-1 layer 2 audio can't be the only audio (although many DVD players will still play a disc when it is), and authoring programs that follow the spec to the letter will require substituting or adding one of the required types of audio.

[hstrent51]

The mpg2 capture files when copied to a DVD optical disc will not play on my DVD player. It sees them as data files. But my player is pretty old.

Last night I ordered from Amazon Prime a Pioneer bluray burner, some bluray media and a Samsung player so all that should change soon.

[jagabo]

The mpg2 capture files when copied to a DVD optical disc will not play on my DVD player. It sees them as data files.

That's why you have to remux them to VOB and use authoring software to create all the other structures required for DVD players. Reencoding will reduce the quality and take a lot of time. Remuxing will not reduce the quality and will only take a minute or two.

[hstrent51]

I'll tell you, DVD Flick takes my Hauppauge captuer files which are .ts format ( I understand .ts is really mpg2 variant) and spends a long time reencoding before remuxing then because a 90 minute capture takes close to an hour to be processed and burned by DVD Flick. It shows the stages of it's work and before it gets to building the DVD structure it reencodes both the video and audio and then recombines them. So what's the deal with that?

[davexnet]

Perhaps the .ts files are not DVD compliant. AVStoDVD is able to use mpg and ts files as-is, as long as they're fully DVD
compliant, not sure about DVD Flick.
Here's a DVD compliant file for you to try. It was originally a capture from live TV, converted by Tmpgenc VMW 5, interlacing retained.

[usually_quiet]

I'll tell you, DVD Flick takes my Hauppauge captuer files which are .ts format ( I understand .ts is really mpg2 variant) and spends a long time reencoding before remuxing then because a 90 minute capture takes close to an hour to be processed and burned by DVD Flick. It shows the stages of it's work and before it gets to building the DVD structure it reencodes both the video and audio and then recombines them. So what's the deal with that?

Maybe the original file size of the TS file exceeds the capacity of a single layer DVD. How large is the TS file?

[hstrent51]

It does exceed the capacity of a single layer disc. I'm burning it to DL discs. 6.47 gb.