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Hi,
I already have an AVCHD camcorder (3MOS Panasonic X900M) but I am looking for a small cam, that is always with me -> mobile phone
I never had an iPhone, Android phone or similar thing. Right, unbelievable^^
Can you recommend a phone that records video in 1920x1080 or maybe UHD/4k in constant frame rate?
- 4k in 25p/30p or 50p/60p (last one maybe hard to get)
- FullHD in 50p/60p
Maybe there are phones where I don't need a special app to get this feature. If not, what app do I need?
I already downloaded lots of native clips straight from mobile phones, but all were variable framerate according to MediaInfo Lite and also in MPC-HC I saw very quickly in Display Stats, f**k the file is crap -> variable framerate
Thank you very much
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There are no phones that do 4k@50/60fps. Here's a helpful link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4K_video_recording_devices
1080p50/60 is also rare, though there are some (see that same link).
And, while not impossible, it is EXTREMELY RARE for a camera phone app (which is the thing that is controlling the camera) to be programmed to be CFR. First, the phone's hardware, OS and camera drivers all have to allow for it, and then the app must make the rated/average and the max and min settings all be constrained to the same single setting, even when faced with low light (which is usually the reason they vary). IOW, the app must be programmed to emulate a professional camera that is set manually. "CineDroid" is advertised as specifically supporting CFR, but I haven't tested it myself to verify this. Another possibility might be "FilmicPro", but their terminology is the usual, Apple-centric marketing stuff that isn't clear whether it truly shoots CFR or not.
I guarantee you, you will need a special app, and likely one that costs money. NONE of the stock cam apps do anything but VFR.
ScottLast edited by Cornucopia; 10th Nov 2014 at 12:06.
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Hi Cornucopia,
thanks for your post and sorry for the time delay, I'm quite busy at the moment.
Are there mobile phones which can record 1920x1080 in cfr 50p/60p when I use a special app for this.
But which app should I use? -
In Brazil LG G3 capture 4k@30.
http://www.tudocelular.com/LG/fichas-tecnicas/n2618/LG-G3.html -
@Cauptain, yes that was already in the list/link I gave above. It still doesn't do 4k @50/60p like requested. None do.
@flashandpan007, I already gave you 2 apps that purport to give you good CFR. I know of NONE that have been tested & guaranteed to be. Unfortunately, you'll have to do a bit of your own research & testing of that on your own. I'm sure once you find out the results, people here would love to hear the outcome. But you are asking it to do alot that it really wasn't designed to do. Kind of like relying on your store-bought SwissArmy knife to repair your car with. There are tools MEANT to do what you're wanting and built to do them well - they're known a CAMERAS. You are choosing to compromise precision for convenience. Until things change a lot, you won't be able to get BOTH in one inexpensive package.
Scott -
I quoted this because OP request 4k@30 in 1st post and I already used it.Originally Posted by Cornucopia
Very good cell.
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I only want a small camera that can record videos in 1080p50/60 and can take pictures.
I already have a DSLR for taking pics and a HC-X900M for recording videos, but I want a small device, that is always available when I'm somewhere.
I only want 1080p50/60 with cfr, nothing more.
If someone already has tested the apps let me what are the cons and pros
Thank you all -
Then get a gopro3+ or 4. It's small, portable, easy to use, and will do 1080p50/60 CFR easily.
Your original post wanted more than just 1080p50/60CFR, however.
I've already said nobody has really tested those phonecam apps (yet)...Can you recommend a phone that records video in 1920x1080 or maybe UHD/4k in constant frame rate?
- 4k in 25p/30p or 50p/60p (last one maybe hard to get)
- FullHD in 50p/60p
Scott -
I "only" need 1920x1080 in 50p/60p. But I don't mind if the device also records in 4k in whatever framerate, at least cfrOriginally Posted by flashandpan007
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Be carefull! The Go pro cameras have catastrophic low optical (visible) resolutions !!!Originally Posted by Cornucopia
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No they don't! (I own some, as well as vid cams and DSLR cams, so I know what I'm talking about).
Where do you come up with this BS?!
Scott -
Soon I am sure we will get phone that "do" 4k. Marketing must be dying to let out those terms for better sales. The quality would obviously be horrendous but most people won't care as they now have "4k" on their phones.
Why can't people understand that a mobile phone is not the right tool for making videos? Oh well!
Not sure what's up with the putting down of VFR, VFR could in theory offer enormous flexibility, I would not be surprised that in the future all video is VFR. -
Because it's a b!tch to edit. Practically all editing software works with a CFR timeline, this can lead to serious issues like AV syncOriginally Posted by newpball
VFR (the way camera phones record it with timecodes) is only good for final distribution, useless for acquisition -
Don't blame VFR blame the lazy software developers!Originally Posted by poisondeathray
Because it's a b!tch to edit. Practically all editing software works with a CFR timeline, this can lead to serious issues like AV syncOriginally Posted by newpball
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This has already been thoroughly discussed: VFR is an abomination whose only raison d'etre is to lower bitrate. And there are much better/easier ways to do that with efficient inter-frame codecs. It's like trepanation for the file: it may relieve (bitrate) pressure on the file, but opens it up & makes it vulnerable to all kinds of other probably worse problems (jerkiness, incompatibility).
VFR has motion judder & aliasing, exposure fluctuation in addition to the complications it brings to editing or compositing.
Please, tell us newpball, what is all this "enormous flexibility" you attribute to VFR (that VBR interframe can't already do much better)?
Oh, and as I already linked in my original response above, there ARE phones that do 4k (recording), just none that do 4k @ 50/60p (yet). But it's also true that MOST people do NOT have "4k on their phones". In fact, NO phones can natively display 4k resolution. The best can do ~2.7k, atm.
Scott
I blame VFR and VFR developers, and VFR promoters. -
The biggest is no more need for the dreadful frame rate conversions. Are you telling me you are really happy with speedups, pull downs and frame blending?Originally Posted by Cornucopia
Second and this is future stuff the camera/sensor could buffer information from the sensor and determine at real time in conjunction with "shutter" speed and aperture when it is most suitable to transmit a frame.
Ideally each frame should have its own duration.Last edited by newpball; 9th Nov 2014 at 12:07.
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Happy? No. Bothered by it, NOT IN THE LEAST (and as a professional in this business, I deal with it more than most).
However, there would be even MORE framerate conversions & FRC problems with VFR, not less.
Problem with your other suggestions is "what constitutes an individual frame?". Up to this point it has been a window into a certain perspective at a certain slice of time (where the time has been regular slices). You propose not only to make the time slices irregular, but you sound like you want to redifine what a frame is in order to accommodate it ("only when image is 95% identical" or something).
ScottLast edited by Cornucopia; 12th Nov 2014 at 15:59.
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That is exactly what I am concerned about. Looks like I have to buy a Sony-DSC RX100 M3, but that is so expensive for every day to have it with me I don't know I thougt a bit cheaper but I want:Originally Posted by Cornucopia
1920x1080
CFR 50p and/or 60p (59,970 not 60,000, I know most are 59,970 but some are 60,000)
probably 4k support but must not
Do you know any device like a mobile phone / small cam like a RX100 M3, but probably a bit cheaper, it should be only the everyday cam
A GoPro would be nice but I think it isn't that what I'm looking for. -
Out of sheer curiosity, what are you worried about?Originally Posted by flashandpan007
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DSLRs and Go PRO cameras have very bad performance on ISO resolution test charts.Originally Posted by Cornucopia
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take a look at auto refresh rate change in fullscreen options of MPC-HCOriginally Posted by newpball
Last edited by flashandpan007; 9th Nov 2014 at 13:37.
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http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Action-Cam-Bildqualitaet-im-Vergleich----GoPro-Her...aet---Not.html
first pic is GoPro Hero 3 BE -
Originally Posted by flashandpan007
700 * 800 is a laughable sharpness resolution.
http://camcorders.reviewed.com/content/gopro-hero3-plus-black-edition-review/science-page
Sharpness Performance
"The way that GoPro is able to offer so many different shooting options is by downsampling a 12-megapixel sensor to whatever resolution is selected. Sometimes, downsampling can deteriorate visible sharpness and detail. We were impressed that the Hero3+ Black Edition managed to beat its predecessor with higher sharpness numbers in our standard HD tests.
We measured 700 lp/ph horizontal and 800 lp/ph when shooting 30p video. We didn’t see a difference in sharpness at the camera’s max resolution of 4K, or at the slightly scaled down 2.7K resolution. The camera’s extra-wide angle SuperView mode caused a loss of resolution, so if you want the sharpest output possible you’ll want to keep that option turned off."
MY NOTICE:
You are unable to get good sharpness , when the active resolution of the sensor is over: 1920*1080... + Go pro series have very primitive cheap lens/optical system.Last edited by Stears555; 10th Nov 2014 at 05:31.
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PANASONIC's old 2010 (!!!) MODEL: (Panasonic HDC-TM700)
http://camcorders.reviewed.com/content/panasonic-hdc-tm700-camcorder-review-37681-3/page-4
"The HDC-TM700 did spectacularly well in our video sharpness test. The camcorder measured a horizontal sharpness of 1000 lw/ph and a vertical sharpness of 900 lw/ph. The impressive vertical sharpness is what stands out here, as no other consumer camcorder we've tested has been able to crack the 600 – 700 lw/ph barrier. " -
That's the reason why I have a 2012 Panasonic HC-X900M.
http://camcorders.reviewed.com/content/panasonic-hc-x900m-review/science-page
Very sharp picture quality.
But I now need or want a very small cam, but not an action-cam.
Never said a GoPro is sharp. I know it isn't, but in comparison with other crap it should be better.
Keep in mind that I started this thread -> I need help to find a little cam that is always with me and records in cfr 50p and/or 60p.
Please help me
Thanks a lot -
The best solution will be the iphone 6.Originally Posted by flashandpan007
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Probably, but ONLY if the OP can be assured of a camera app that forces CFR instead of VFR (remember, that was a vital requisite in the original post).
Scott -
Just noticed this article: http://alex4d.com/notes/tag/UHD. It refers to an app written specifically for the new iPhone6/6s (as well as 5s) which allows use of its "3K" max setting @ "up to 30fps", or 1080p up to 60fps. Look a little further down the review and you'll see that they also cannot legitimately maintain a true CFR, mainly due to iOS limitations (notice the "up to"). They even described trying to force it to one framerate and testing it and finding it still fluctuated (sometimes wildly). Most likely this is due to the need for equivalent exposure, but this tells me that those phone cameras are being designed by people who have only a passing knowledge of videography (probably only looking at certain numbers). Not too surprising.
So I'm guessing still no luck with the phone cams...but do let us know if you find something that can actually deliver!
Scott -
@ Cornucopia: Thank you
If I find out more, I let you know -
one of the new android phones may be your best bet. the nexus 6 will do up to 4k @ 30fps with ois, unknown if cbr. but with android 5 intorduced it has a new api with direct access to the cam sensor for developers so it may happen.
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"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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