Need advise, audio becomes out of sync AFTER joining files

[poisondeathray]

Ok, added 1st file then appended the rest..... muxing has begun....

Will this produce 1 or 7 resulting files?

Appending should produce 1

[perceptionist]

Ok, it resulted in a single mkv file which is the full movie. I opened it in VLC and took the following notes in case it might be helpful:

Overall it seems that all of the audio is exactly where it should be, however...

>Start to 14:37 - a/v sync'd and all is good

>14:38 to 40:02 - Audio is fine and seamless but there is no video, screen is all gray

>40:03 to 54:47 - a/v sync'd and all is good

>54:48 to 1:09:17 - Audio is fine and seamless but there is no video, screen is all gray

>1:09:18 to end - a/v sync'd and all is good

Here is the log from media info for the mkv:

General
UniqueID/String : 215255671734867456730935946262786830656 (0xA1F0BC00F0891BB59DCB40B7DD6B7140)
CompleteName : C:\Users\Mike\Videos\Movies\The Apple War (Äppelkriget) (1971)\MP4\MKV created with mkvmerge\The Apple War (Äppelkriget) eng sub pt.1.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format_Version : Version 4 / Version 2
FileSize/String : 1.39 GiB
Duration/String : 1h 38mn
OverallBitRate/String : 2 025 Kbps
Encoded_Date : UTC 2014-10-03 22:39:00
Encoded_Application : mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 64bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:52:10
Encoded_Library/String : libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.1
DURATION : 01:38:30.454000000
NUMBER_OF_FRAMES : 254535
NUMBER_OF_BYTES : 124261875
_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP : mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 64bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:52:10
_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC : 2014-10-03 22:39:00
_STATISTICS_TAGS : BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES

Video
ID/String : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format_Profile : High@L3.1
Format_Settings_CABAC/String : Yes
Format_Settings_RefFrames/String : 1 frame
Format_Settings_GOP : M=1, N=30
CodecID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration/String : 1h 38mn
Width/String : 1 280 pixels
Height/String : 720 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String : 16:9
FrameRate_Mode/String : Constant
FrameRate/String : 25.000 fps
ColorSpace : YUV
ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String : 8 bits
ScanType/String : Progressive
Default/String : Yes
Forced/String : No

Audio
ID/String : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format_Profile : LC
CodecID : A_AAC
Duration/String : 1h 38mn
Channel(s)/String : 2 channels
ChannelPositions : Front: L R
SamplingRate/String : 44.1 KHz
Compression_Mode/String : Lossy
Default/String : Yes
Forced/String : No

[perceptionist]

So everything is in order and audio seems to be properly sync'd for the entire movie, but this is the first time I've seen the video greyed out.

[poisondeathray]

You can try joining the individual titles from the DVD made from avs2dvd then re-author it

Or maybe doing it with avisynth as mentioned earlier with a script (learning curve)

[perceptionist]

You can try joining the individual titles from the DVD made from avs2dvd then re-author it

What should I use to accomplish that?




Oh and did the mediainfo log provide any clues as to what is happening?

[manono]

What should I use to accomplish that?

If you have a bunch of MPVs or M2Vs for the different titles and a bunch of AC3 files, you can use Muxman to add them all together into a single title. Open the first video and keep hitting the 'Add' button to join all the other MPVs/M2Vs. Do the same with the audio files before then authoring into a single-title DVD.

[ndjamena]

It would help if MediaInfo would put the tags in the right places, but the file has no other tags nor even a segment title so I guess that's the problem, it's stealing tags from the tracks and applying them to the file to fill in the void. I'm not sure they'd be all that useful at this point anyway, the MKVMerge log may be more interesting, but Mosu ignored my suggestion to add an "ACTIVE_DURATION" tag to account for gaps in the file. It really would be better if the OP muxed each file individually and made sure to add at least SOMETHING to each segment title so we can see the tags without resorting to MKVExtract.

MKVMerge didn't happen to complain about Codec Private Data did it?

-Edit- Crud, it looks like you may need actual tags, useless there's an actual bug in MediaInfo...

-Edit- Nope, that just makes it worse

[perceptionist]

At this point I'm beginning to get confused though I'm trying to hang in there.

Ive done so many different things with these files with different results... there are pros and cons to each of the results.

I guess I'm wondering (and I wonder this because it happens often) if we're all on the same page with what has been done thus far. Sometimes people will only skim the posts leading up to where we are currently at or only read the last few.

I still have all of the resulting files from all of the processes executed throughout this thread.

As I mentioned at the beginning, I have a movie broken into 7 files. I have these 7 files in MP4 format AND AVI format. I can experiment with either set of files.

ALL of the files (AVI and MP4) have perfect a/v sync. This gets messed up when they are joined in such a way to burn a single DVD.

I don't mean to sound frustrated, but I feel that my efforts to give thorough information up front was lost somewhere along the way....This happens so often that I'm certain that others have had the same experience when they were in my position.

I have no problem following directions but when someone suggests a new thing to try, just let me know from which point I should start..... from my original 7 segments, or from a file resulting from one of the processes already executed or??....

[ndjamena]

Well, what I'd like is for you to remux each of the original files with MKVMerge and post the MKVMerge -I output for each of those MKVs.

-Edit- I guess we'll need the delay too, MKVInfoGUI is the only sure way I know of to get that info until the next version of MediaInfo is released.

[perceptionist]

1 of 7:

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|+ EBML version: 1
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+ Segment, size 224363642
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| + Seek position: 4099
| + Seek entry
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| + Seek position: 4261
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| + Seek position: 224354469
| + Seek entry
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| + Seek position: 224362746
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|+ Segment information
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| + Muxing application: libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.1
| + Writing application: mkvmerge v7.2.0 ('On Every Street') 64bit built on Sep 13 2014 15:52:10
| + Duration: 877.080s (00:14:37.080)
| + Date: Sat Oct 04 04:10:35 2014 UTC
| + Segment UID: 0x90 0x7d 0xee 0x55 0xdf 0xcd 0xd8 0x13 0x9c 0xac 0xbd 0x4e 0xae 0xa3 0x49 0x11
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| + Track UID: 5306131664344535997
| + Track type: video
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| + MinCache: 1
| + Codec ID: V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
| + CodecPrivate, length 40 (h.264 profile: High @L3.1)
| + Default duration: 40.000ms (25.000 frames/fields per second for a video track)
| + Language: und
| + Video track
| + Pixel width: 1280
| + Pixel height: 720
| + Display width: 1280
| + Display height: 720
| + A track
| + Track number: 2 (track ID for mkvmerge & mkvextract: 1)
| + Track UID: 14978455765030383773
| + Track type: audio
| + Codec ID: A_AAC
| + CodecPrivate, length 2
| + Default duration: 23.220ms (43.066 frames/fields per second for a video track)
| + Language: und
| + Audio track
| + Sampling frequency: 44100
| + Channels: 2
|+ EbmlVoid (size: 1093)
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| + Language: und
| + Video track
| + Pixel width: 1280
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| + A track
| + Track number: 2 (track ID for mkvmerge & mkvextract: 1)
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| + A track
| + Track number: 2 (track ID for mkvmerge & mkvextract: 1)
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| + Language: und
| + Audio track
| + Sampling frequency: 44100
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| + Track type: video
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| + CodecPrivate, length 40 (h.264 profile: High @L3.1)
| + Default duration: 40.000ms (25.000 frames/fields per second for a video track)
| + Language: und
| + Video track
| + Pixel width: 1280
| + Pixel height: 720
| + Display width: 1280
| + Display height: 720
| + A track
| + Track number: 2 (track ID for mkvmerge & mkvextract: 1)
| + Track UID: 4883223496633230996
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| + CodecPrivate, length 2
| + Default duration: 23.220ms (43.066 frames/fields per second for a video track)
| + Language: und
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| + Channels: 2
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[El Heggunte]

First of all --- do you really need/want to convert those files to DVD-Video Keep in mind that

a) 1280x720 => 720x480 or 720x576 == loss of quality
b) from H.264 to MPEG-2 == loss of quality
c) YouTube quality == LOW quality already

If I were you, this is what I would try:

-- demux the 7 MP4s into 14 elementary streams (7 .h264 files + 7 .aac files) with MP4Box or ffmpeg;

-- join the 7 video segments and the 7 audio segments with Windows's copy /b

copy /b 01.h264 + 02.h264 + ... + 07.h264 video.h264
copy /b 01.aac + 02.aac + ... + 07.aac audio.aac

--- mux video.h264 and audio.aac with MP4Box, or with MKVmerge.

[ndjamena]

Not what I was asking but it does show that some of the video streams have Codec Private Data lengths of 39, while some have a length of 40, considering that data is used to decode the actual video and you can only have one instance in an MKV, that's not a good sign.

I don't know if you know how to use a command prompt but the info we really need to figure out what's going on is obtained by using the command

MKVMerge -I FileName.mkv

That will give us the actual private codec data. plus all the info stored in the tags.

What we need from MKVInfo is the time-codes of the frames in the first GOP. The default MKVInfo settings stop reading the file at the start of the first cluster, we need to read past that and find the time-codes WITHIN the first cluster. You need to select "Options | Show All Elements" in the menu (assuming you're using the GUI). Track 1 should be the video track, Track 2 should be the Audio.

[perceptionist]

What we need from MKVInfo is the time-codes of the frames in the first GOP. The default MKVInfo settings stop reading the file at the start of the first cluster, we need to read past that and find the time-codes WITHIN the first cluster. You need to select "Options | Show All Elements" in the menu (assuming you're using the GUI). Track 1 should be the video track, Track 2 should be the Audio.

I have some experience with using command prompt, but only in a limited capacity such as release/renew ipconfig info and ping to check that a PC is seeing the network etc...

I did attempt to run the command you showed me replacing "Filename" with the actual file name.mkv..... but I think I need to change the directory somehow correct?

Here is the mediainfo log with "all elements" for the first segment... let me know if this is the right info and then I will post the info for the remaining 6:

Ok that didn't work trying to post.... I got the following:




Attempting to attach the .txt file:

The info looked a lot nicer than it looks in the .txt file when I pasted it into the post, but it wouldn't let me post.

[ndjamena]

Well, that file has no delay whatsoever and the durations of the video and audio seem to match. That's just file 1 of 7 though.

I'm pretty sure the different Codec Private Data explains why you can't join them into a single file without re-encoding, MKVMerge let you ignore the warnings and you can see the result for yourself. I can't see anything so far that would explain why the audio in the first file would be dropped during re-encode though.

Did you re-encode at all when you converted between MP4 and AVI?

debugging these things is difficult at the best of times, it's even harder when working through proxy with someone who doesn't really know what's going on...

If you want to join them properly, you will have to re-encode... Are you really sure you want DVD?

[_MrC_]

UPDATE: AVS2DVD finally completed, took forever but thats fine as it got me the best results so far.... but it could be better, I'll explain:

After AVS2DVD was complete I used imgburn to create an image file from files/folders.

Then used that image to burn a DVD. DVD plays fine with all audio in sync perfectly......BUT.....and this is minor but would be cool if I can fix:

There is no smooth transition between the joined segments, it is very obvious. When playing the DVD it only plays one segment at a time meaning while the movie is playing, there is only like 15 min showing on the time below and when that completes it switches to the next segment.....however I'm impressed that all audio is now perfectly in sync!!

When I initially created a DVD using ConvertX, even though the audio was out of sync.....the DVD played smoothly and all files were joined seamlessly with no visual interruptions....so it must be possible.

Is there a different program I should try to join my files into a DVD?
Or perhaps I needed different settings in AVS2DVD?

If you want to give another chance to AVStoDVD, you could accomplish your goal (no visual interruptions) by using the option 'Tools'/'Join Source Titles (AVS file)'. Just be sure you have loaded the source files before and that the source files must have some common properties (height, width, framerate, audio samplerate).

Remember to replace the extended ASCII chars with standard chars in the source filenames.



Bye

[perceptionist]

Well, that file has no delay whatsoever and the durations of the video and audio seem to match. That's just file 1 of 7 though.

I'm pretty sure the different Codec Private Data explains why you can't join them into a single file without re-encoding, MKVMerge let you ignore the warnings and you can see the result for yourself. I can't see anything so far that would explain why the audio in the first file would be dropped during re-encode though.

Did you re-encode at all when you converted between MP4 and AVI?

debugging these things is difficult at the best of times, it's even harder when working through proxy with someone who doesn't really know what's going on...

If you want to join them properly, you will have to re-encode... Are you really sure you want DVD?

Yeah in most cases I would just leave the file(s) as is if they were for me. But I hunted for years and finally found this film with eng subs as a favor for an old friend who is not at all tech savy on any level. So preparing this to play as a no hassle DVD would be a much appreciated gift with the added bonus of learning a couple things in the process. And I do appreciate all of the help so thank you!



I will get the other 6 logs up in a few.

I will also try out _MrC_ suggestion later this evening. I'm open to experimenting.

[perceptionist]

ok here are #s 2 thru 6

[ndjamena]

OK, they're all H.264 + AAC, they all have the same video resolution, audio sampling rate and number of channels. There's not even a hint of a delay in any of them either real or imagined and the audio and video streams seem to all be of the exact same duration (other than slight differences contributed via differing frame sizes.)

However, 1, 4, 6 and 7 have a H.264 Codec Private Data Length of 40 and AAC Codec Private Data Lengths of 2 and AAC Bits Per Second stats of around 152kbps, whereas 2, 3 and 5 have H.264 Codec Private Data Lengths of 39 and AAC Codec Private Data Lengths of 16 and AAC Bits Per Second stats of almost exactly 192kbps.

Joining may be a bad idea, but as far as I can tell unless some of the frames are corrupted there's nothing in any of the files that should affect re-encoding at all.

There would seem to be a bug in Convert X to DVD. MP4Box and MKVMerge look to be objecting to the differing codec private data in the video and AVIDemux just didn't like the audio BPS differences. As for AVS2DVD I'm not sure but I think it may have added each file as a different title, hence the bad joins. Somehow you've got to tell it not to do that, if you can't figure out how to do that I know DVDStyler has an "add file as chapter" option that seems to do the job.

[perceptionist]

Remember to replace the extended ASCII chars with standard chars in the source filenames.

Is this supposed to be accomplished by simply renaming the file? I renamed it a few times and each time AVS2DVD gives me the same extended ASCII character warning.

I currently have the files named as: "TAW-1" "TAW-2" "TAW-3" etc.....

[perceptionist]

If you want to give another chance to AVStoDVD, you could accomplish your goal (no visual interruptions) by using the option 'Tools'/'Join Source Titles (AVS file)'. Just be sure you have loaded the source files before and that the source files must have some common properties (height, width, framerate, audio samplerate).

I just tried this. Before burning, I tried watching the VOBs in VLC.

The result:

I watched a couple of the segment transitions and the video appears to transition seamlessly now from segment to segment however some segments have audio and some do not. The ones that DO have audio, it sounds like it is playing at super speed but the video is unaffected and plays normally.

Also, I tried a few times to rename the 7 files but AVStoDVD continued to give me the extended ASCII warning. I understand the "title" is different than the "filename" so I tried to right click the file and go to properties then details, but the "title" field was blank so nothing to change there.

I went ahead and ignored the extended ASCII warnings for this run.

[El Heggunte]

Well, if the source MP4s are as "pesky" as they seem to be, and since you'll have to reencode them all anyway,
why don't you prepare yourself for doing the whole job *manually*

In other words, convert to DVD-compliant MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio, then use an actual DVD-authoring program.

As you should have already realized, the "simplest" approaches sometimes do not work, or just return poor results.

[perceptionist]

Well, if the source MP4s are as "pesky" as they seem to be, and since you'll have to reencode them all anyway,
why don't you prepare yourself for doing the whole job *manually*

In other words, convert to DVD-compliant MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio, then use an actual DVD-authoring program.

As you should have already realized, the "simplest" approaches sometimes do not work, or just return poor results.

I'm all for taking the long road as I don't plan on doing this often.

Will that process mess with the hardcoded subs? I'm guessing no because aren't hard subs for all intents and purposes pretty much a permanent part of the video stream?

Can I use AVStoDVD to convert to DVD-compliant MPEG-2 video and AC-3 audio? I was looking at output settings:

>Elementary MPEG2 Streams

or

>Muxed MPEG2 File

Is there much if any quality loss to be expected by taking this route?

If there is a more appropriate program or if you know of a useful tutorial link I could refer to that would be perfect!!

Thanks

[El Heggunte]

If AVS2DVD wasn't able to output DVD-compliant video + audio, then it wouldn't deserve that name, I presume

The problem is, because of some obscure reason, it's not working as it should.

You can encode to MPEG-2 with HCenc, ffmpeg, or the ancient TMPGenc Plus.
For AC3, use Aften.
The authoring can be done with Muxman, DVD-lab PRO, or one of the various GUIs for dvdauthor.
If you don't want/need an introduction menu, the freeware edition of Muxman should be quite adequate.

P.S.: I also think you have spent too many years without doing your homework

https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

[ndjamena]

The programs' seem to be having trouble de/re-encoding the AAC. You could try re-encoding the aac into PCM with eac3to first, remux it back with the video, then feeding that into the DVD makers. (Or you could try DVDStyler, if it will happily take my UT Video Codec Lossless files maybe it will take variable bit-rate AAC in it's stride as well).

By the way, are you feeding the MP4s or AVIs into the programs?

[ndjamena]

OK, I think I see what the problem is, the audio is 44.1khz, whereas DVD is 48khz. Me thinkth it's failing on the resampling.

[Bjs]

A majority of editors here don't handle VBR audio well, yet alone joining them without problems.

Fix (convert all audio to CBR) and most problems will be solved.

[Ryan Petrus]

**For sync up multiple camera angles, I'd suggest trying out*PluralEyes (http://pluraleyes.com).
And*if you're just shooting on 1 camera, check out*DreamSync (http://dreamsyncapp.com). It's not as cumbersome or expensive as PluralEyes and gets the job done for smaller quick projects.*

**There's acutally an app called DreamSync, a standalone application that's built for the novice user as well as professionals. It syncs your footage and audio into one single clip so that it can then be imported into applications like iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Adobe Premiere, Final Cut X, or any other editing suite.*
http://dreamsyncapp.com
Both apps are effective depending on your editing workflow and how much (or little) time you want to dedicate to learning another interface for syncing audio/video footage. *

[ndjamena]

EAC3To won't decode AAC without Nero installed, but AVIDemux seems to handle it perfectly, it will even let you resample it to 48khz. Try saving the audio as pcm and theoretically this thread should be over.

[perceptionist]

By the way, are you feeding the MP4s or AVIs into the programs?

I have been using the MP4s.

The MP4s were the first files I got. I created a set of AVIs later to see if it helped the result.

So for the advice in this thread, I've only been utilizing the MP4s.

[perceptionist]

I just managed to get another copy of this movie in AVI (XviD) format. It took a few months via emule.

It was broken into 2 parts which joined beautifully.

Only problem, no english subs

I have been searching the web for a .srt English sub file for this film with no luck so far. In my search it appears there are others also anxious to get an eng subbed copy of this film.

A lady on one forum mentioned that she has "written to the Swedish Film Institute, who tell me they have no objection to having the film put on an English-subtitled DVD."

She goes on to ask how this can be done.

I don't suppose it is possible to somehow salvage the English hard subs from the files I've been working with and use them with the copy I just got?