the best future proof format

[glenpinn]

I would not comment it that hard. Storing DVD is just an opinion, it is not trolling to insist that that's the way to do it, it is just an opinion that one can accept but doing something else to be sure things last (upkeep, copy, paste, spread out those copies).

I dont think i mentioned Trolling, it was more like being single/narrow minded in his views or opinion.

[SameSelf]

Time for me to bail out, this is just a complete waste of time

good riddance

[hello_hello]

While I appreciate your thoughts, you have offered no alternative. That just won't do, sorry.

The fact that there mightn't be an alternative doesn't make you right.

Accelerated aging studies are dubious. Even your wikipedia source acknowledges this. That study was done nearly 10 years ago, and the authors admit that the technology was in flux at the time. I think the only thing that can be said confidently from that study is, and I quote, "The results show that high quality optical media with good quality initial recordings can survive several decades in ambient storage conditions." I suspect that the longevity has improved since 2007.

Several decades doesn't seem to be quite the same as 100 years to me. You originally suspected they'd last 100 years, now you suspect the longevity has improved. You can't archive data reliably based on suspicion.
I suspect if anything it's the opposite. It's getting harder and harder to buy blank DVDs using good quality dye. Most have gone by the wayside. There's really only Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden left, and even Verbatim also sell discs using cheaper dye rather than their own Azo (Mitsubishi) dye these days, so if anything the quality has gradually been declining (on average).
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm
Have you ever run a burn quality test on a disc after burning? Even using high quality discs with a burner that can burn them well it can still be a bit hit and miss process.

Why are there no future proof formats? I can still buy a phonographic cylinder player.

Where, and for how much? Do you still have phonographic cylinders you can play? Does the average household have a phonographic cylinder player, or are they about as common as DVD players will be in 100 years time?

Who cares if HD video is downscaled to DVD? SD, HD, 4K, 8K, that stuff won't matter one bit to a future generation that stumbles across a DVD that says 1999 on the label. None of the stuff we obsess about today will matter in the future. It probably won't even matter to us when the end is near. We will just be happy to leave something, anything. A box of handwritten diaries, letters, photos, and carefully labelled CDs with photos and dvds with video, these are touching things to leave a great-grandkid. A hard drive? srsly.

The odds of burned DVDs in a box still being usable in 100 years are probably similar to the odds of a bunch of hand written letters not being eaten by moths, or handwritten diaries not becoming lunch for silverfish, or of photos not fading, so in that respect it's probably a fair analogy. Of course how long they'll last probably has a great deal to do with the ambient temperature/humidity, and relies almost completely on the descendants storing them in fairly ideal conditions once you're gone. Maybe they'll get around to looking through that old box of grandpa's stuff under the bench in the garage... one day.

Why the obsession with DVD discs when there's already an optical format that'll hold way more data, and chances are it'll be around longer than DVD? One that'll hold high definition video without the need to downscale it. Although even DVDs will hold high definition video if you burn it as a data file. Why the need to use an old standard definition format just to create a compliant DVD video disc?

I can buy a scanner today that'll scan film negatives. I can scan slides from my grandparent's collection. I can transfer old films to a digital format. If there's enough data to be preserved from past generations, there'll be a way to preserve it. Even if it's crappy, low quality audio on an old phonographic cylinder. If there's still mechanical drives around in 100 years there'll be devices that'll copy the data. The phonographic cylinder isn't anything special in that respect.

Once something's in digital form the archival medium becomes secondary. You can losslessly copy the data from one archival medium to another. You can put your eggs in several archival baskets. There's not so much of an urgent need to ensure you pick a medium that'll still be accessible in 100 years, because in ten years time you can transfer the data to the next current generation medium, then the next. Until you're gone and the whole lot gets dumped in a box and stored in a shed in the backyard. The closest you can probably get to future proofing data is to keep moving it to archival medium that's current/common today.

[_Al_]

http://electronics.woot.com/plus/lets-play-some-records-3?ref=cnt_wp_6

[glenpinn]

Why is everyone still going on and on and on about this rediculous debate, and arguing the point about which Medium is the best to store Video files on for long term archiving, all of you in the 2nd and 3rd pages are just bickering over spilt milk, just store it on whatever Medium you think is best, and if it is still supported and you can get access to your video files in 100 years, good bloody luck to you.

NOW, that is NOT what the Thread Owner was asking, so why not address his original question and offer him some help or advice to get his VHS Videos from the tapes and onto his computer in the best possible quality for editing and re-conversion without destroying the video, which is what he must do first, before he even thinks about re-converting to other formats, or what medium he then decides on for archiving his videos.

Want to convert 30-40 VHS cassettes with family movies to a digital format.
What is the best ouput format (think I will use a canopus ADVC)? I would prefer not to loose quality while editing.
Wat is the best future proof format to save the original and edited movies in?

The only person who has actually done this was jagabo with his short but to the point reply back on page 1 (see quote below)

If the OP is capturing with a Canopus ADVC device he should just archive the DV AVI file. Talk of lossless codecs is nonsensical. For viewing, use DVD.

To which i then followed on by agreeing with him completely, because that is exactly what he needs to do first and foremost, and once he has his VHS video transferred to his PC Hard Drive in DV-Avi format (this will use up about 13gb per 1 hour of video) he can do his editing (just chop out the unwanted waste and to save some space as well) and output the video back to DV-Avi format, which then becomes his Archival Digital video footage to be stored away on whatever Medium he chooses, as long as he has the available free storage space to do so, and who cares if it is stored on DVD or Bluray disc, a Hard Drive or whatever, that is not relevant to this topic.

Getting back to the VHS Tapes, he needs to get that video onto his Hard Drive in the best possible quality to the original video on the Tapes, so i don't think that anyone will argue that transferring it in DV-Avi format is the only option to start with, using the right hardware to suit his particular needs.

I can only offer some advice based on thousands of VHS tape conversions that i did many years ago, not only for my own videos, but for clients as well, so i originally invested in a Canopus ADVC110 transfer box, and after a while i found that my videos had some shimmering or jerkiness in them, so someone suggested that i also grab a DataVideo TBC5000 to place between my VHS Recorder/player and the ADVC110 to stabilize the video, so i borrowed one for a while, and it worked, but i did not want to buy one myself as i felt the cost was too high at that time, so i eventually moved from the ADVC110 to the ADVC300 which had a built in TBC, making it a lot easier and less complicated.

I used a very simple tool called WinDV to Transfer to DV-Avi format, i would edit the DV-Avi, and keep that for Archiving, then convert a copy to mpeg2 program stream with mpeg Layer2 audio (Pal) and this video file was retained by me as well, and used to Author the video to DVD when anyone wanted a copy, because back in those days, that is the way things were usually done.

By keeping the editid DV-Avi Video, you could then use that (not the mpeg2 file) to re-convert to other formats that claim to be able to re-produce video quality near enough to the original video (h264 in an MP4 or MKV container for example)

So, here we are, the Thread owner is not asking which Medium is the best for Long Term storage, he is asking for advice on which is the best Future Proof Format to convert his videos to. but lets give the Topic Creator some tips on how to get his precious VHS video tapes to Digital format first.

A great thread for converting VHS to DV Format
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/356262-Canopus-ADVC-100-vs-ADVC-110-vs-ADVC-300

WinDV

Canopus ADVC110 Conversion device
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/advc110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeVNid389Tg

Canopus ADVC300 with built in TBC
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/308864-REG/Grass_Valley_602050_ADVC_300_Bi_Direc...Converter.html

Canopus ADVC300
http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20580

Datavideo TBC5000
http://www.datavideo.com/Time+Base+Correctors/TBC-5000

Lordsmurf explains it all here in the following link
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-repair/2347-datavideo-tbc-100-a.html

I later moved to a better quality Panasonic VHS Recorder/player that had its own built in TBC, but the ADVC300 was very good at correcting noise issues in my videos, so the key here is to use a good quality VHS player with clean heads, at least use the ADVC300 and you should be good to go.

Finally, if your VHS video quality is shit, your still going to get shit video in Digital format.