the best future proof format

[hello_hello]

Chances are anyone specifically asking for an MKV wouldn't need to because they'd know how to remux an MP4 themselves, so they wouldn't care.

LOL, i think you need to take a big step back here for a moment and re-think what you have just said.

You need to understand that there are some people like you and I who know a bit about video editing etc, but what about all the millions of every day people (like all my family members and friends) who know absolutely nothing about video editing or rendering, these people are complete novices, most of them would never know a video editing tool from a spade, let alone know what MP4 and MKV is, and most of these people rely entirely on people like me who provide them with their videos to output them in a format that they are able to watch on their TV's, and i am sorry, but like it or not, MP4 is the most versatile and more preferred container out there for both professional and personal use, and more so for playback support, so that is why We use it.

You're not saying anything I've disagreed with.
Although I would say, if these people rely entirely on you to provide videos in a format they are able to watch on their TV's, maybe you should be burning Bluray complaint video discs, or at least AVCHD complaint discs. Is it safe to assume everyone owns some sort of USB media player?

Most people would be clueless when it comes to container formats. For some people like you and I who know a bit about it, they wouldn't care if they were supplied with an MP4 or MKV because they'd simply remux it from one to the other if they had a preference. That's what I was trying to say there.

The rest of your reply doesn't prove anything in relation to MKV support today. My question regarding currently manufatured hardware players that support MP4 and not MKV remains ignored.

You initially asked "what makes MKV better than MP4" and I replied for me it's mostly ease of muxing with MKVMergeGUI compared to using MP4 muxers, in combination with tools such as MKVCleaver for extracting streams. For me, it's chalk and cheese, because that's the type of thing I mainly need. MKV support in hardware players is fairly irrelevant to that because all the players in this house play MKVs and I'd never buy a player again that doesn't. You also said:

"....years ago everyone raved about MKV and that it was far better than MP4, BUT, as i found out the hard way, every time i plugged a usb drive into the usb on a HD tv, or into some of those hard drive based media players, they would never support MKV, only MP4"

and I replied stating that it's probably a lot different now. MKV support by hardware players is now pretty universal. I don't know why that's an argument. I've not seen any evidence it's not true. Sure you might prefer to supply video using the MP4 container so those using older players can still play the files, but it doesn't have anything to do with currently manufactured TVs/hardware players and MKV support today.

As I said earlier, DivX Plus HD specifies the MKV container, so any certified DivX HD device will play MKVs. According to Wikipedia, DivX Plus HD was launched six years ago. I haven't watched trends in hardware players closely or created graphs and flowcharts, but I suspect that was a factor in increasing MKV support in non-DivX certified devices too. I'd imagine manufacturers of non-DivX certified devices wouldn't want to be losing sales to certified devices simply because they don't support a common container format.

[glenpinn]

You're not saying anything I've disagreed with.
Although I would say, if these people rely entirely on you to provide videos in a format they are able to watch on their TV's, maybe you should be burning Bluray complaint video discs, or at least AVCHD complaint discs. Is it safe to assume everyone owns some sort of USB media player?

No, i am not making any assumptions about people owning a USB media player, why would i, not many people these days would need one, unless they are like you and wanted to play MKV video files, or other file formats that are not supported directly via the internal media player on the TV itself.

By internal Media Player on the TV, i refer to the fact that most people now days own a HD TV of some kind, be it a 1080p model, or a 768p model, and it would be very safe to assume that most of these HD TV's (going back at least 6 years that i know of) will have a USB port on them, which means that these TV's will have its own built in media player, and in every single case that i know of, these TV's fully support 1080p and/or 720p MP4 videos, depending if its a 1080p TV or the lower res 768p TV, but not one HD TV that i personally know of from using them (one which are around around 3 years and older) would support any MKV file.

However, maybe some of the newer models do, and newer models may well support MTS, M2TS and TS files as well (i cannot say for sure) but regardless, all will play Videos directly onto the TV via a USB device, so there is no valid reason or need for me to be burning stuff to Bluray or Dvd, and have them wasting good money buying Bluray players or external media players, and i have never been asked by anyone, including clients, for their videos to be put on Bluray or Dvd, except one client wanted one copy on dvd for his elderly parents because they still had an older LG analog standard def wide screen TV with a dvd player connected.

We live in the age of portability, people who i come into contact with just want it kept simple, no Blurays, no Dvd's, they just want Plug-n-Play, people want to carry their videos on a small portable device (USB Stick or 2.5" portable Hdd) from one place to another and plug it into a TV, laptop or computer and play it, and very few of these devices have the ability to play a Bluray, or even a Dvd in some cases (lack of dvd/bluray drives is one example)

I have been shooting 1080/50p AVCHD video for clients and for my own family and friends for several years now, i output the final edited videos in 1080/50p mp4, and i also do another copy in 720/50p mp4 as well, and every person that i make these videos for gets a copy of both files, so they are able to play the 1080p video on a 1080p TV, or if they have a 768p HD TV, they can play the 720p version, and these people can then copy those videos onto another USB device and give it to other people to play, all without this rediculously messy, expensive, and time consuming process of burning discs etc.

When i move to shooting 4k/50p video, i will edit the 4k XAVC-S files, then output to 4k/50p MP4 using the x264 encoder in VRD Pro, and also down-scale a copy to 1080/50p MP4, giving people a copy of both files, so if they have 4k TV, they play the 4k video, if they only have a 1080p TV, they watch the 1080p video, and still have the 4k video in case they move to 4k TV in the future.

Most people would be clueless when it comes to container formats. For some people like you and I who know a bit about it, they wouldn't care if they were supplied with an MP4 or MKV because they'd simply remux it from one to the other if they had a preference.

Chances are anyone specifically asking for an MKV wouldn't need to because they'd know how to remux an MP4 themselves, so they wouldn't care.

As i said in my previous post, most of the general population, and that would be around 99% of people i know, and supply videos to, are complete and utter Noobs when it comes to Video formats and containers, let alone be able to "simply" re-mux their video from one to the other.

The fact is, if i give them their videos inside an MP4 container, there is a far far better chance they will be able to play them than if i give them in MKV, simply because MP4 is the most widely used and supported playback format, and so far i never had anyone call me to say they cannot play them.

Cheers

[hello_hello]

I know quite a few people with TVs that have no media player. I guess those TVs were purchased before media players became pretty much a standard feature. Only a few months ago my other half asked me to find her a good USB media player she could use with her 40" LCD TV as it doesn't have one. She was one of those people who probably would have played your MP4s via a Bluray player, after burning them to disc first, as hers is so old (at least six years) it doesn't play files via USB. It'll play MKVs though, just not via USB. In her case I bought her a $5 HDMI cable for her laptop and she uses it as her media player.

It seems odd we "live in an age of portability" where DVD and Bluray players are a thing of the past, but there's a line and for some reason MKV is still way, way over it. Do not cross. 4k h264 in an MP4 is okay though, even though I'd be willing to bet many future TVs won't support h264 playback above 1080p. I suspect it'll be h265 or nothing for 4K. I could be wrong, but even though very few people have 4K TVs at the moment it's still on this side of the line. MKV though..... it's like a distant galaxy with the space in between expanding faster and faster.....

My Samsung TVs 4 years old, and it supports, AVI, ASF, MKV, MP4, WMV, 3GP, VRO, MPG, MPEG, M2TS, TS, TP & TRP. The Sony Bluray player is the same age, and it supports the same variety of file types, and even AVCHD on a USB device. DivX Plus HD has been around for six years and it specifies MKV. Not that I've disagreed with your logic. If you want to supply someone with a standalone file type that's most universally supported, MP4 would possibly be the best bet, but it's still not related to MKV support and devices manufactured today, or in the last few years. The "show me a current device that supports MP4 but not MKV" challenge remains open.....

[glenpinn]

but it's still not related to MKV support and devices manufactured today, or in the last few years. The "show me a current device that supports MP4 but not MKV" challenge remains open.....

I cant show you any current device that lacks MKV support, thats why i stated that the devices (or HD TV's) i mention are 3 or more years old, i have never personally used any HD tv newer than our own 55" samsung.

The point i try to make is that many people i deal with still have HD TV's older than 3 years, and i know most of them more than likely don't support MKV, but all definately do support MP4, and that is the primary reason for giving their files in MP4, simply because i know i will never have anyone call me to say their video wont play, and if they take the usb drive to any other HD TV, the video will play on that as well.

That is why it is the universal container of choice

Isn't it ironic, i can take one of my 1080/50p MTS videos and output it to MP4 or MKV in VRD and they are identical, just a different container, and i can re-mux one into the other container in the blink of an eye if i wanted to.

The best Hdd based media player i ever owned is the Western Digital Live model from 2013, have one connected to all 4 of my HD TV's.

[SameSelf]

If you want to future proof your video, the best strategy is to pick the most ubiquitous consumer technology. For SD analog video, IMHO, that would be the humble single-layer DVD-Video burned to a DVD-R.

Take VHS, for example, the most ubiquitous form of consumer video technology throughout the 80s and 90s. I haven't heard anyone say, "I have all these VHS videos and no way to play them." It is 2015 and people can still easily pick up a VCR (brand new even) and watch their 30 year old tapes if they want. I suspect in 2025 or even 2050, the situation will not be much different. Although, a 1980s era tape probably won't be any good in 2050. But I digress.

Where one gets into trouble is when one strays into non-ubiquitous technology. Again look at videotape. Good luck trying to find a brand new Betamax player today. I have a bunch of Hi8mm tape that I am increasingly worried will be obsolete soon. Similarly for my HDV tape library. But I think there is a reasonable chance that one will always be able to source a VHS player for the rest of this century.

Now, let's think about the digital world.

To me the best analogy is time capsules from the 19th century. Imagine you put your video in a time capsule today for someone in 2115 to open up. What do you want them to find? A hard drive with a bunch of video/audio files in ancient codecs? Because in 2115 even H.265 will be considered ancient. Plus, even if the SATA hard drive interface protocol still exists in 2115, I doubt that drive will spin up. To me the obvious answer is a DVD-Video. I virtually guarantee (seeing as none of us will be around to settle up) that in 2115 if someone finds a DVD, they will be able to pop it into a player and watch it. Plus DVD-Videos have the added benefit of not corrupting easily. IOW, a scratch doesn't render the disc completely unplayable.

I could go on, but why? DVDs are simple, cheap, and last a long, long time.

[glenpinn]

I could go on, but why? DVDs are simple, cheap, and last a long, long time.

This DVD Disc reliability topic has been debated for as long as optical media has been around.


Yes, DVD discs are simple and cheap, but they do not all last a long long period of time, and history will prove this to be true over and over again, and i am not talking about commercial DVD movies, i am talking about recordable optical media.

There is good media and bad media, but they are no more bullet proof than any other form of storage, and any expert will tell you this.

Have you ever had specific dvd discs that simply refuse to be read in certain dvd players or computer optical drives, if not then you are one heck of a lucky dude, because this was a common problem back in the early day, i had Tayo Yuden and verbatim dvd-r discs that would not read or write in some players or optical drives, and those were regarded as the best brands ever made, and what about corrupt writes that you had no idea existed until you go to copy the files from the disc ?

Many years ago when i was first shooting dvd format to mini DV Tape, everyone stored their files on a dvd disc, not just 2, but 3 copies were made because of the unreliability of optical media, and i had many a dvd disc just suddenly become un-usable for no apparent reason, so i am going to have to disagree with you on this one, especially now that we live in 2015.

Oh, and can you imagine that i shoot a wedding over a 12 hour period (10am until 10pm) and out of that, i end up with a completed 2 hour video for the client, in 1080/50p mp4 that equates to 25gb of storage, aint no way i am going to cut that up into 4gb segment to store on dvd, how dumb would you have to be to do such a stupid thing, or would you suggest that i invest in a Bluray burner and buy 50gb Bluray discs to store them on, i think not.

Nothing is ever going to be perfect, sure i can shoot my 1080/50p MTS videos now, and probably still going to be able to do so in 20 years time, and i will still be able to process this video, and still be able to watch it, because things like this do not just disappear over night.

I retain up to 4 or 5 copies of every single completed 1080/50p MTS video i have ever shot over the past 7 years, and i simply store them on several backup mediums so i am guarenteed that i will never lose any of them, but i am confident that in 20 years, i will still be able to use them, and watch them, just as we can still watch DVD format today, but never trust a DVD disc, no way.

Me personally, i just choose what i believe to be he best storage options available to me at a given point in time, if things chnge, i will change with the times, and keep moving my video files from one storage medium to the next.

[SameSelf]

The archival quality of any particular optical media is another topic. I stand by my original statement. The best strategy to future proof or guard against obsolescence of the storage/delivery/playback format of your video is to pick the most ubiquitous consumer technology. For analog video, it's VHS. For digital, it's DVD. And these days you can even buy an all-in-one VHS/DVD machine. If I was the OP, that's what I would do and skip the Canopus ADVC.

[_Al_]

We cannot dump our things into backyard (or even basement) and let it stay there to last for eternity or even just for close future. One has to go thru stuff on regular basis and sort it out, clean it, or just to check up on it. Same for video. If certain hardrives will be becoming obsolete soon or even their age is suspiciously long, one just have to back it up again. Just common sense.

And because it is digital age, who cares what the format is H.264, HEVC, mpeg2, all is readable , not like just decade ago, where special hardware was needed. There might be exception as Same-Self says, perhaps DVD format or VHS, BD one can play even century in future, but one needs to get hold of special hardware and one needs to check its playability gradually (checking for deterioration) anyway.

No free lunch in archiving, some care is always needed.

[SameSelf]

I suggest that everyone re-read my post again. I said clearly that the time capsule example was an "analogy". Who said anything about a free lunch? You guys keep wanting to stray into the topic of archival senescence. Whatever.

Let me try again. DVD players are everywhere. No other digital video technology even comes close, not even blu-ray. DVD players aren't going away anytime soon. I virtually guarantee a person 100 years from now will be able to source a DVD player easily and probably a VHS player and even a vinyl record player. Get it? Some technology just has staying power while others fade into obscurity.

[glenpinn]

The archival quality of any particular optical media is another topic. I stand by my original statement. The best strategy to future proof or guard against obsolescence of the storage/delivery/playback format of your video is to pick the most ubiquitous consumer technology. For analog video, it's VHS. For digital, it's DVD. And these days you can even buy an all-in-one VHS/DVD machine. If I was the OP, that's what I would do and skip the Canopus ADVC.

And on that note, and without any disrespect to you, i personally think you are living way too far back in the dark ages, and like i said, best case for archiving is to continue moving your videos on to the next or future forms of backup mediums.

Hard drives as we know them will be around for a very long time, Cloud storage is fast becoming another medium for backing up (i have a 1tb Dropbox Pro account that is currently storing 800gb of my videos) but i still don't get your logic about DVD media and VHS Tape, move it to digital format and move on.

I virtually guarantee a person 100 years from now will be able to source a DVD player easily and probably a VHS player and even a vinyl record player. Get it? Some technology just has staying power while others fade into obscurity.

Nonsense, total garbage, i will take a bet from you right now that you are wrong with this 100 year theory about VHS players and dvd players.

Wait, are you actually suggesting that we all take our precious videos, whatever format they are, and actually convert them to DVD format and burn them to dvd to play back on a dvd player ?

I was of the assumption that we was talking about backup mediums ???? you know, a place to actually store all our wonderful video files on for archiving, and that is why i suggested that DVD discs were not a good idea as a reliable and viable long term storage medium.

Someone is getting this all mixed up, you still can't be serious though ?

[friendly_jacek]

I virtually guarantee a person 100 years from now will be able to source a DVD player easily and probably a VHS player and even a vinyl record player. Get it?

i guarantee you these devices won't work 100 years from now. Considering rotted rubber belts, crumbled plastics and corroded electrolyte caps, they they will be non-functioning junk. my own VCR is self destructing now at the ripe age of 20 years giving me the urgency to capture and convert anything of value.

also, the media itself (VHS, DVD) will self destruct. i lost a few movies burned on cheap CDs or DVDs.

[SameSelf]

oh man this is worse than i thought. ok, ok, hat in hand here. i admit ur 90s era VCR will be sitting in a landfill somewhere in a few years. feel better? in 2115 just buy a new one. problem solved.

[glenpinn]

oh man this is worse than i thought. ok, ok, hat in hand here. i admit ur 90s era VCR will be sitting in a landfill somewhere in a few years. feel better? in 2115 just buy a new one. problem solved.

You are the one who dug the hole, but you keep falling back into it every time you post something, i managed to climb out in the nick of time, but i then realized somewhere along the way, someone was getting all confused about what was actually being discussed.

Are you talking about converting all video to dvd format and burning to a disc, because i was referring to using dvd discs as a medium for simply storing video files on for archiving

Either way, its rediculous to convert HD video to DVD format, and more rediculous to use dvd discs to store digital video files on for archiving, and if anyone does use dvd discs for archiving, then they are just plain crazy.

[pippas]

in 2115 just buy a new one.....

That is meant as a joke, right?

You cannot seriously believe that in 100 years time the tooling required to make the mechanics of a VCR - or even a DVD player - will still exist?

OK, there maybe some way of still playing the discs at that time - after all, it's still possible to play audio discs made over 100 years ago (some details on that HERE if it's of any interest).

Extremely unlikely that there will be any domestic way of playing DVDs though. And we'd only be talking about pressed discs anyway. The 'burnt' ones will definitely be dead by then...As will all the VCR tapes....

Media players involving any mechanics in another 25 years time?... very doubtful..... Although audio vinyl records might still be going....
That's one (not very good) mechanical medium that simply refuses to die!

[SameSelf]

people may not like what i say, but i will still say it. the medium and the players will still be around in 2115. don't assume everything is going the way of the laserdisc.

[smrpix]

people may not like what i say, but i will still say it. the medium and the players will still be around in 2115. don't assume everything is going the way of the laserdisc.

If you're wrong, none of us will be around to say "I told you so."

[SameSelf]

people may not like what i say, but i will still say it. the medium and the players will still be around in 2115. don't assume everything is going the way of the laserdisc.

If you're wrong, none of us will be around to say "I told you so."

i dont see anyone stopping now just cuz its 2015 assuming ur in this camp as well

[bendixG15]

Isn't it wonderful to argue about the future ..... everybody is right and nobody is proven wrong.

[SameSelf]

Isn't it wonderful to argue about the future ..... everybody is right and nobody is proven wrong.

the difference here is that i seem to be the only one saying it. fine, someone needs to stand up for the humble dvd. if i am the only one, ok. i now know where i stand on this forum:

Me: DVD as a medium will still be available in 2115
The Rest of the Forum Members: No it won't

[friendly_jacek]

people may not like what i say, but i will still say it. the medium and the players will still be around in 2115. don't assume everything is going the way of the laserdisc.

i don't think VCRs/VTRs are made anymore.

[_Al_]

Who said anything about a free lunch?

That was directed to the original question kind of, archive needs to be kept up-to date, like op needs a format and then be done with. But one needs to take of archives anyway by moving them later on, format might not be that important as long it is not a really weird one.

And as long as it needs to be done, why not to store it en masse, as a whole, that's all. Who is going do deal with separate discs, VHS tapes later on ...

[SameSelf]

That was directed to the original question kind of, archive needs to be kept up-to date, like op needs a format and then be done with. But one needs to take of archives anyway by moving them later on, format might not be that important as long it is not a really weird one.

And as long as it needs to be done, why not to store it en masse, as a whole, that's all. Who is going do deal with separate discs, VHS tapes later on ...

I disagree. Unless you are a US President that gets a library built to commemorate their life, the rest of us basically got one shot at this. Look at this way. No one but you cares about that home movie. So when you are gone, who is going to do the archive updating? No one. That's who. As a result, most, if not all, of what we create will be forever lost once we are gone. The only thing keeping it going at this point is you. So the question becomes similar to what the OP posed, what form of media is most likely to survive until 2115 when a future generation is suddenly interested in great-great-grandpa? If someone stumbles across a box in an attic or basement, what will they find that will be even remotely of value? I submit that a boxful of DVDs burned today with high quality media have a reasonably decent chance of being playable in 2115. What other sort of ubiquitous video device stands an equal chance? Another way to put it is, imagine you could give your descendants in 2115 a present. What would you physically hand to them? I plan on it being a DVD collection.

Also, some might see spanning a library across multiple units as an advantage along the lines of not putting all of one's eggs in one basket. Let's say you turn those 30-40 VHS cassettes into 50 DVDs. Well, even if only two are playable in 2115 I would say that is going to be a gold mine for whoever finds them.

[_Al_]

There are topics that cannot have a solution, this is one of those. Comparing storing videos at home to US President library is weird because say, 4T of data in 10 year span for example is or might be quite normal (edited, original footage)

just an opinion I certainly would not want to pass down 100 DVD's saying, do whatever you want with it. I'd better pass down one thing, hardisk one SSD, or whatever there is going to be as carrier, saying do whatever you want with it, neatly stored, directories named by year etc.

You can upload, convert, browse, search in quite comfortably, DVD handling is not comfy, very difficult, slow, lots of handling. Imagine directories named 2010,2011,2012, with sub-directories that define videos is more detail, naming videos with date and brief description, so they are lined up on screen in order by time. This is not US Presidential library but everyday reality obtained very easily, if you just stick to it all the time, because as you say, there will be no one that would play with it later.

[SameSelf]

Since we are unable to separate the topic of future proof from data senescence, I will wade into this some.

Good luck with getting 4 TB spinning disks to even spin up after they have sat in a box for numerous years (not to mention decades) untouched and rusting away. Good luck with the files or directories even being readable after more than a few bits rot. Good luck with the bits even being present on an SSD after a few years sitting in a box. Trusting that a spinning drive or SSD will survive numerous years or decades in a box in a dusty attic or basement, smh. Maybe in the future SSDs will mature to the point that the bits are stable in cold storage. None of this even addresses the issue of obsolete interface protocols, filesystems, etc.

What are my other choices now? USB thumb drive? SD Card? CFlash? LTO? The list runs out pretty quick.

The problem is consumers have not been educated about the ephemeral nature of hard drives and how they are completely unreliable modes of data archiving. True they are handy for data storage, but don't conflate that with data archiving. I suspect in the future, consumers or our successors will eventually figure this out, and anyone today who relies on spinning disks to archive their memories will be poorly perceived by future generations.

So I guess I really need to modify my original answer:

Until something better comes along, DVD is best. Let's hope it is soon. Because believe me, it is not like I am happy with the current situation.

[_Al_]

Hardisk you hook up, copy and unhook. Nobody is saying that hardisk would last 100 years. This kind of upkeep is expected. Moving data and multiple back ups, different locations is a must. What would one do with 50 DVD's? Copy one by one? BTW again burning to DVD?

This kind of archive in music is quite normal, either cloud or home cloud, where one just streams or uploads on the need base. I cannot imagine having 50 thumbdrives with different music on it and taking care of all of it, keeping track etc.

[SameSelf]

Who's hooking up, copying, and unhooking after your gone? Archive needs to be suitable for cold storage. Otherwise it does not qualify as archival quality. BTW, I said nothing about copying 50 DVDs over and over every few years. Put 'em in a box and forget about it until some future gen is interested.

[hello_hello]

Since we are unable to separate the topic of future proof from data senescence, I will wade into this some.

Good luck with getting 4 TB spinning disks to even spin up after they have sat in a box for numerous years (not to mention decades) untouched and rusting away. Good luck with the files or directories even being readable after more than a few bits rot. Good luck with the bits even being present on an SSD after a few years sitting in a box. Trusting that a spinning drive or SSD will survive numerous years or decades in a box in a dusty attic or basement, smh. Maybe in the future SSDs will mature to the point that the bits are stable in cold storage. None of this even addresses the issue of obsolete interface protocols, filesystems, etc.

And yet a 50 cent disc using dye and a laser to burn the data is definitely going to last 100 years sitting in a box in someone's attic? What gives a burned DVD such special longevity? Not to mention the fact it kind of goes against the pesky stuff referred to as "evidence".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD#Longevity
According to the info from the research mentioned above, only about 50% of discs could be expected to last more than about 45 years. Whether or not that assumes the burn quality was as high as possible in the first place, I'm not sure, but when you're referring to the lifespan of burned DVDs are you assuming they're being burned with a brand new drive with a brand new laser?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc_recording_technologies#Longevity

Claiming there'll still be drives able to read DVDs in 100 years (or for that matter, that it'll be possible to play VHS tapes in 100 years) seems a little optimistic to me. Maybe the average consumer player will still read DVD discs, maybe not, but I wouldn't count on it myself. At some stage in the future, I think optical discs as a method of purchasing video/audio will go the way of the floppy, and along with it consumer players capable of playing discs, and we'll all be purchasing digital media from the cloud, or streaming it etc, and disc playing hardware players will be as common as Betamax players are today.

The reality of it is, there is no future proof format. Industry standard formats such as VHS or DVD may last longer than most, but it doesn't mean they'll be around forever. Burning today's high definition video to DVD disc doesn't make much sense any more, and downscaling it to DVD resolution makes even less. You could burn it to disc as data files (MP4 or MKV etc) but then why not use the latest disc format? One that'll hold a lot more data? Or will Bluray players/drives be relics of the past while everyone still owns DVD players?

100 years is a long time in respect to technology. When I was young TVs used CRT tubes, there was no internet, the VHS player was a luxury, older home recordings were probably 8mm/16mm film, lots of people owned carousel slide projectors, there was no digital photography, the only phone you owned was attached to the wall and had a rotary dialler, music came on huge vinyl discs, almost nobody considered the possibility of owning a PC, not everything was made in China, and you had at least one older relative with ceramic ducks on the wall....... and I'm nowhere near 100 years old. Chances are in 100 years time the world will look a lot different than we're able to imagine/predict it will today.

[SameSelf]

While I appreciate your thoughts, you have offered no alternative. That just won't do, sorry.

Accelerated aging studies are dubious. Even your wikipedia source acknowledges this. That study was done nearly 10 years ago, and the authors admit that the technology was in flux at the time. I think the only thing that can be said confidently from that study is, and I quote, "The results show that high quality optical media with good quality initial recordings can survive several decades in ambient storage conditions." I suspect that the longevity has improved since 2007.

Why are there no future proof formats? I can still buy a phonographic cylinder player. That technology fell out of favor exactly 100 years ago. While obsolete, it hasn't disappeared. I am confident DVD players will be around another one hundred years or longer precisely because it is ubiquitous. So many DVDs were published and purchased. Piggy-backing on DVD is a wise move. I am much less confident in nerdy computer technology. Future generations won't even know what a hard drive is, let alone how to plug it in and copy files from it.

Who cares if HD video is downscaled to DVD? SD, HD, 4K, 8K, that stuff won't matter one bit to a future generation that stumbles across a DVD that says 1999 on the label. None of the stuff we obsess about today will matter in the future. It probably won't even matter to us when the end is near. We will just be happy to leave something, anything. A box of handwritten diaries, letters, photos, and carefully labelled CDs with photos and dvds with video, these are touching things to leave a great-grandkid. A hard drive? srsly.

And srsly, why the hate on ceramic ducks?

[glenpinn]

Wow, after reading more of this last page, and listening to some of the rubbish being posted by one particular poster, this is just getting to become a big joke (other comments deleted)

Time for me to bail out, this is just a complete waste of time, and although he is entitled to believe what he likes, most of us know that what he is saying is wrong about DVD media.

In the end, you have to move your existing, and future video files, and all your other stuff onto newer technology as it comes along for archiving, and anyone who claims that they should put everything onto one medium and lock it away for 100 years is just talking out of their backside.

Sorry but that is the fact of life.

Cheers

[_Al_]

I would not comment it that hard. Storing DVD is just an opinion, it is not trolling to insist that that's the way to do it, it is just an opinion that one can accept but doing something else to be sure things last (upkeep, copy, paste, spread out those copies).