I have captured my mini dv tape footage using iMovie11 and then joined the files in PremiereProCS5 and exported to .mov . I have attached a screenshot of the video settings of the original captured clip and the joined one and it seems that they have different scale sizes. Original is 768x576 and joined is 720x576. Can someone tell me what did go wrong and what should be the correct size so the ratio is ok and not squashed?
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Is the problem that i selected in Premiere the wrong aspect ratio? I should've selected one being 768x576px?
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One of 2 things:
1. You exported to an intermediate format somehow prior to loading into Premiere (for the 1st clip), but not the 2nd.
or
2. You have inadvertantly switched the playback aspect ratio setting (known in Quicktime land as "aperture") between the 1st & 2nd.
The latter is more likely. QT pulls stuff like this much of the time.
Understand: ALL PAL DV footage is 720x576. ALL. Whether it is 16:9 widescreen or 4:3. (Don't get confused by letterboxed footage, as the black pixels still count).
According to FCP guide:
Using "Clean" aperture, 16:9 PAL DV will probably show 1024 x 576 and 4:3 PAL DV will show 768x576. This is like saying: "resize the display to accommodate/honoring the non-square Pixel Aspect Ratio but make it look as if it were using the equivalent Square AR."
Using "Encoded pixels" aperture, both 16:9 PAL DV and 4:3 PAL DV will show 720x576. Both will be the wrong Display AR (the 16:9 will look way too thin and the 4:3 will just look slightly too thin). This is like saying, "don't honor the PAR, just show the pixels un-resized/as-is whether square or non-square."
Unless your are a broadcast production person, you'll likely never use the Production aperture.
Not sure if I think that's all correct, but we'll pass for now...
If you are exporting, you want your export to reflect your "encoded pixels" aperture. But you probably want to preview using the "clean" aperture. Just don't passively believe what it's telling you - take it with a grain of enlightened salt.
ScottLast edited by Cornucopia; 10th Nov 2014 at 13:15.
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I don't get much of what you say Scott, im sorry, its my ignorance!
All i want to do, is to capture my mini dv tapes with an easy way. I found that iMovie11 is easy, no dropping frames or any other "glitches" (capture stopping randomly) i've encountered with Premiere.
I connect the camera, open iMovie, capture, finishes, it just works. Dv files are produced and then i need to join them. I know a little of Premiere, i enter all the video parts, i join them placing them in the timeline, i export them to .mov and voila i get one big joined video. No FW800 problems what so ever!
The only problem is that its a little different size from the captured DV video! This seemed strange, thats why i asked. Other than that i don't know much, i just don't want to have a cropped video. Is there a way to prevent this and how?Last edited by zoranb; 20th Sep 2014 at 10:22.
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768x576 is the capture format size. Is there a way to retain this after joining the captured clips?
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No, 768x576 is NOT the capture format size. Don't believe what it is telling you, because it is fudging the truth by "dumbing it down" for you.
Here is an example of a DV cap in Quicktime. Without previous editing/saves, it DEFAULTS to "clean aperture". That means, it presents itself AS IF it were the equivalent in square pixels - it's honoring the PAR & DAR (That's good). But it's NOT really encoded in square pixels...
[CLEAN APERTURE]
[CLEAN APERTURE VIDEO PROPERTIES]
The file reports itself to you, and to all apps that rely on it, as 640x480. That's bad, because it isn't. Would have been so much more informative to just add a note saying "encoded pixels=...".
Here's the Production Aperture. It is SUPPOSED to give you a slightly more accurate (less cropped) version, but it still tries to give you an equivalent 1:1 PAR without really telling you what magic it already performed to get there, so it only really goes half way to helping.
[PRODUCTION APERTURE]
[PRODUCTION APERTURE VIDEO PROPERTIES]
The file reports itself as 654x480 - a size that almost NOBODY uses. The reasoning behind this was supposed to be that 640 was equivalent to 704 with a PAR of 10/11, and using the same ratio 720 would map to 654. What they forgot was that doing the mapping correctly (DV uses ITU/601, not MPEG sizing) means to crop 720->704 first, and then use the 10/11 to map to 640 instead of 654.
Here's the "Encoded Pixels" aperture. It shows the actual pixels' size, BUT it doesn't honor the PAR, but show the pixels with an ASSUMED 1:1 PAR (wrong). In fact, there is NO function in Quicktime where it both honors the AR AND gives you the correct pixel size.
[ENCODED PIXELS APERTURE]
[ENCODED PIXELS APERTURE VIDEO PROPERTIES]
The file reports itself as 720x480. This is the true resolution of the file. Funny that it says, " Preserve Aspect Ratio", but it isn't doing that here.
Note: These 3 versions are all THE SAME FILE. It actually is 720x480, regardless of what Quicktime tells you. BTW, these are all NTSC versions, where the horizontal is squeezed to show the correct DAR. PAL stretches the horizontal when showing correct DAR.
Note also that this points out another flaw of Quicktime: it defaults to NOT showing DV in "HighQuality"!
You DON'T want to mess with the 720x480 size until the very end AND you intend to show it with a player that doesn't support non-square pixels. Then (if you must use square pixels), you encode to 768x576.
Your assumptions are flawed because QT was giving you fudged/incomplete info.
ScottLast edited by Cornucopia; 10th Nov 2014 at 13:19.
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So what do i do with the captured clips? I just want to join them, but do not know what template to choose in Premiere! Can you guide me?
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In Premiere, use either the DV-PAL widescreen (16:9) or DV-PAL standard (4:3) preset, depending on which your footage is. (Based on the images posted, 4:3 is probably correct.) Your audio is probably 48khz.
When you're ready to export, click the Match Sequence Settings check box. You'll be good to go.Last edited by smrpix; 21st Sep 2014 at 14:42.
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If you have a question about the settings, post a screenshot...
Scott -
So if i understand correctly i should just forget about what QT states regarding the video sizes (px). Take the dv captured files from iMovie11 and join them in Premiere using PALdv template although its less pixels than the captured file.
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Is there a different way to find out the size of a video file? Other than QT's way i mean!
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When you have questions about the actual, accurate format & makeup of your files, you should use MediaInfo to get a readout. It's not by any means perfect, but it is WAY better than Qucktime. And it more closely follows the industry-standard nomenclature.
Here is a sample from what I showed earlier:
Code:General Complete name : \\Mediaserver\Video\VideoScott\BigSleep_Tests\THE_BIG_SLEEP(DV)i.avi Format : AVI Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave Commercial name : DV Format profile : OpenDML File size : 2.00 GiB Duration : 9mn 56s Overall bit rate mode : Constant Overall bit rate : 28.8 Mbps Writing library : VirtualDub-MPEG2 build 24600/release Video ID : 0 Format : DV Codec ID : dvsd Codec ID/Hint : Sony Duration : 9mn 56s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps Encoded bit rate : 28.8 Mbps Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4:3 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 fps Standard : NTSC Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Bottom Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357 Stream size : 2.00 GiB (100%)
Scott -
But guys (excuse me for still being on this issue) isnt it strange that -in QT- i see two different sized videos? In my first post, where i have the original (former) and the joined (latter) they do not appear as if they have the same size. The window they are contained in is different, this isnt fake, its real, so they must have different size. Why shouldn't this be under consideration? (excuse me if i still dont get it )
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No, what's strange is that you don't understand this yet. 720x576 is how it's stored. 768x576 is how it's played. There's a flag in it that tells the player how to resize it at playback time. At 720x576 things look too tall and thin. At 768x576 things look 'normal'. Find something round (a ball, a sun, a clock, etc.) and compare.
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Check both file versions for us: once each in Quicktime, and once each in MediaInfo.
For QT, check first to see which aperture you are in. Here's how to do it and what they stand for (though their nomenclature is more confusing than helpful): https://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=106%26sec...6%26tasks=true. Then read the resolution.
Assuming both kinds of clips are using the same aperture, if QT shows different sizes and if MediaInfo also shows different sizes, your clips ARE different sizes. And that could only happen if you did something wrong - either in the export of iMovie (not likely, since they really don't give you much options), or (more likely) in the Project, mediafile Interpretation and/or Export settings of Premiere. If you're unsure, like I said, post a screenshot.
If (using same aperture) QT shows the same sizes, then the problem was with one app telling QT to show DV using one aperture (iMovie=>clean?) and another app telling QT to show DV using a different aperture (Premiere=>encoded pixels?). This is my guess for the most likely reason it occurred as it did.
BTW, DV is still DV, whether it is in a raw stream format (.DV or .DIF like iMovie often uses) or whether it is contained in a MM wrapper format (.MOV, .QT or .AVI like FCP, Premiere and many others often use). QT can work with any of those kinds and can losslessly transfer between them (if you do it right).
AFA window sizes, here is a trick that QT can do: Rotate the window!
Open up a DV file (any) in QuicktimePro. Go to [Window|Media Inspector] & note the resolution. Then go to [Window|MediaProperties|VideoTrack], click the Visual Settings tab & Rotate. Close the window and do a SaveAs (not export, not save). Save it as a self-contained movie (not reference). It will take a small amount of time to flatten the movie, but not the amount of time it would take to re-encode the movie. So now you know the movie is still the SAME movie with the same resolution, right? Close it all out.
Open up that saved movie in QTPro again. Go to [Window|Media Inspector] now, and note that the resolution is reported as switched! Even though you know, I know & the American people know that it's the same movie and it still has its original resolution & AR but just (temporarily) rotated. It's really all about how QT is trying to talk down to consumers and won't give out valuable info. In an effort to extremely simplify, they've oversimplified. Not only that but you can see how an app (this time QT itself) can save the extra info that tells QT how to show the file (rightly or wrongly) - in this case, the rotation.
BTW, Mediainfo correctly shows this last file as still a 720x480 4:3DAR movie, but explicitly with a 270º rotation.
ScottLast edited by Cornucopia; 25th Sep 2014 at 16:30.
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What's the intended final 'destination' for these video clips? Because if it's a TV (rather than a computer screen), believe it or not the 720x576 ones will play back exactly as intended, regardless of how they look at the moment. So if all you're trying to do is burn a DVD or something, there's really nothing at all to worry about.
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Well yes the final destination would be to be able to be watched on a tv. Either through a dvd or even a video file from computer/VLC player!
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If you're watching the 720x576 videos in VLC and they appear too tall and thin, press the A key until it forces an aspect ratio of 4:3. If you're aiming to author the 720x576 vids to DVD, then, well... just do it, and they'll work fine.
(Why? Simply put: not all pixels are square. There are situations when you need to worry about this, and this isn't one of them.) -
Ok.
Now how should i handle the footage that is filmed in widescreen format? In the same mini dv tape i have footage both in 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio. Is there something i must do when capturing in order to separate 4:3 from 16:9 or should i just capture as i already have done so far and then join them all together without distinguishing each? -
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A couple of things we need to establish before answering:
1) Is the widescreen footage true 16:9, or simply 4:3 footage masked with black bars at the top and bottom?
2) Are you aiming to join a 4:3 clip with a 16:9 clip, or will you be keeping the different aspect ratios separate? -
Well if im not mistaken, when i played the footage on my 42" LCD Philips TV i noticed that the 4:3 footage wouldn't cover the whole screen but there were black bars left and right. So i take it that the 16:9 footage would fill the whole screen perfectly. But thats just a wild guess, what do you think?
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