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  1. I have no problems capturing 1080i from my satellite box via HDMI to my Elgato Game Capture HD. However capturing Standard Definition is more difficult! Does the HDMI spec support 576i? The lowest resolution my satellite receiver will output via HDMI is 576p which throws away half the motion which is no good to me.

    I've used a HDMI to Component converter (which allow you to change the output resolution) but it only gives a 576p picture when used with the Elgato Game Capture HD for some reason. However I tried the HD PVR 1 and it gave me a nice 576i smooth framerate. However even when recording 576i in 10 Mbps with the PVR, it still has picture glitches in gradients so it's of no use to me.

    Sky the box provider have done away with component outputs so the only other thing the box can output is Composite or SCART which both output in 576i.

    The Elgato can accept HDMI, Component, S-Video or Composite cables. Composite gives a poor picture so that's out.

    Which of these should I get and can you recommend any products?:
    • HDMI to S-Video Cable
    • SCART to S-Video Cable
    • Or is there another option I've missed?

    Was wondering as well, does SCART give a better picture quality than S-Video? And when using SCART should I select PAL or RGB in my satellite receiver settings for SCART?
    Last edited by johns0; 21st Sep 2014 at 16:47.
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  2. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    I have no problems capturing 1080i from my satellite box via HDMI to my Elgato Game Capture HD. However capturing Standard Definition is more difficult! Does the HDMI spec support 576i? The lowest resolution my satellite receiver will output via HDMI is 576p which throws away half the motion which is no good to me.
    Yes, 576i is supported by HDMI trough pixel repetition mode so t frequently not implemented by producers of equipment.
    576p in your case is a deinterlaced 576i progressive video so motion is intact (should be) i this is not the case raise problem to manufacturer of your STB.

    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    The Elgato can accept HDMI, Component, S-Video or Composite cables. Composite gives a poor picture so that's out.

    Which of these should I get and can you recommend any products?:
    • HDMI to S-Video Cable
    • SCART to S-Video Cable
    • Or is there another option I've missed?

    Was wondering as well, does SCART give a better picture quality than S-Video? And when using SCART should I select PAL or RGB in my satellite receiver settings for SCART?
    In theory SCART provide full bandwidth for RGB signal but due of 420 encoding you probably notice difference only in graphics (OSD).
    When you going for SCART RGB select RGB however you need to feed synchronization to your capture card so perhaps you need additional circuit to do RGB > YPbPr
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    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    I have no problems capturing 1080i from my satellite box via HDMI to my Elgato Game Capture HD. However capturing Standard Definition is more difficult! Does the HDMI spec support 576i? The lowest resolution my satellite receiver will output via HDMI is 576p which throws away half the motion which is no good to me.

    I've used a HDMI to Component converter (which allow you to change the output resolution) but it only gives a 576p picture when used with the Elgato Game Capture HD for some reason. However I tried the HD PVR 1 and it gave me a nice 576i smooth framerate. However even when recording 576i in 10 Mbps with the PVR, it still has picture glitches in gradients so it's of no use to me.
    HDMI supports 576i50 and 480i60, even if some consumer electronics only support a minimum resolution of 576p or 460p via HDMI.

    The HD-PVR can only capture at the resolution it receives. The fact that you can record fluid motion at 576i when the HDMI to component converter is connected to a Hauppauge HD-PVR is a pretty good indication that the converter is outputting 576i50. You could also check to see if that is true by using MediaInfo on a capture file produced by the Hauppauge HD-PVR.

    The Elgato Game Capture HD can capture at a different resolution and frame rate from the one it receives. Have you checked the Elgato capture software's capture settings (576i or 576p) to rule out the possibility that it is using the wrong capture settings?
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 20th Sep 2014 at 10:48.
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  4. Yes I have. Every resolution comes out in progressive when fed a 576p signal from my satellite box going into the HDMI to component converter then going into the Elgato.

    So which of these products would give a better picture from my satellite box to the Elgato (I'm trying to record 576i).
    • HDMI to S-Video Cable
    • SCART to S-Video Cable

    And can anyone recommend a good quality cable from Amazon to do the job?
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    A SCART to S-Video adapter may only be able give you composite quality even using S-Video, from what I have read about them. ...but since they are inexpensive I think you should try one to see what happens before investing in something that produces S-Video output from HDMI input.

    You would need an HDMI to S-Video converter, not a simple cable. Electronics are required to convert a digital signal to an analog signal. It will cost more than a SCART to S-Video adapter.
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  6. ok thanks. Do you have any links to pages that say Scart to S-Video produces composite picture?

    Would this be OK for Scart to S-Video
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Switchable-Scart-Phono-S-Video-Adaptor-Gold/dp/B0018DE4ZU/ref=...art+to+s-video

    Or would I need a cable:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metre-SCART-S-VHS-S-Video-SVIDEO/dp/B0017M16WG/ref=sr_1_2?s=el...art+to+s-video
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  7. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    ok thanks. Do you have any links to pages that say Scart to S-Video produces composite picture?

    Would this be OK for Scart to S-Video
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Switchable-Scart-Phono-S-Video-Adaptor-Gold/dp/B0018DE4ZU/ref=...art+to+s-video

    Or would I need a cable:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metre-SCART-S-VHS-S-Video-SVIDEO/dp/B0017M16WG/ref=sr_1_2?s=el...art+to+s-video
    Both require S-Video (separate Y and C) source - Y (luminance) is sent as normal video (it should be grayscale on normal, non S-Video TV), C (chrominance) is sent usually on R (red) line (but SCART standard allow to use G or B lines to).
    This cables/adapters do not change RGB signal to S-Video - to convert RGB to S-Video you need some electronics (color encoder).

    http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html
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  8. That's way over my head...
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  9. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    That's way over my head...
    Can you configure your source to output S-Video signal over SCART? If yes then you can use one of those two links - if not then you need to go from RGB to PAL by external encoder. So everything depend from your source. if you are not sure just place pictures form device configuration screen - then we can try to help you.
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    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    ok thanks. Do you have any links to pages that say Scart to S-Video produces composite picture?

    Would this be OK for Scart to S-Video
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Switchable-Scart-Phono-S-Video-Adaptor-Gold/dp/B0018DE4ZU/ref=...art+to+s-video

    Or would I need a cable:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metre-SCART-S-VHS-S-Video-SVIDEO/dp/B0017M16WG/ref=sr_1_2?s=el...art+to+s-video
    I can't find where I read that. I vaguely remember that the quality has more to do with how the source device produces an S-Video signal rather than the adapter used.

    SCART carries S-Video in and S-Video out on different pins. The little adapters with a switch have one advantage. They are bi-directional. The switch controls the direction. The cables don't often include a switch, so if you get one that is pinned in the wrong direction, it won't work. Reading user comments, the cable you linked to may be pinned incorrectly for SCART to S-Video out.
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  11. My Sky Satellite box can output PAL or RGB over Scart.

    So can I use a S-video to Scart adapter or Scart to S-Video cable? Or would a HDMI to S-Video converter box be better like this: http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=41Would that definately give an S-video picture quality (not composite)?
    Last edited by VideoFanatic; 8th Oct 2014 at 12:01.
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  12. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    My Sky Satellite box can output PAL or RGB over Scart.

    So can I use a S-video to Scart adapter or Scart to S-Video cable? Or would a HDMI to S-Video converter box be better like this: http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=41Would that definately give an S-video picture quality (not composite)?
    To use one of (SCART to S-Video) adapters or cable your box need to output signal as S-Video, using converter from link will put big question mark how conversion from HDMI to S-Video is performed (resizing, reinterlacing) - i doubt that it will be better than direct recording from your box with HDMI recorder.
    576p50 doesn't loose any information about motion - at input of this HDMI converter same rules apply as for input of your HDMI capture - you will spend money only and you will have unnecessary (loss of quality) conversion from HDMI to S-Video.
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  13. Why would a satellite receiver output Scart as S-video? I've never heard of that before. I don't see why a box would do that as if it wanted to output S-Video surely it would have an S-video output port?!

    Where are you getting 576p50 from? My box only outputs 576p at 25fps via HDMI. I can't change to 576i on the Elgato. However I managed to use a HDMI to Component converter which had a scaler to record in 576i however it only worked with the HDPVR and not the Elgato. So it looks like you can modify the HDMI output of my Satellite box to 576i.

    How would I have unnecessary loss of quality by using a HDMI to S-Video converter as opposed to a Scart to S-Video converter?
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    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    My Sky Satellite box can output PAL or RGB over Scart.

    So can I use a S-video to Scart adapter or Scart to S-Video cable?
    The spec for the SCART connector itself supports both S-Video out and composite out, but not at the same time, because composite video out and S-Video out share one pin.

    You can't use the SCART to S-Video cable because there is no S-Video setting. I think the PAL setting on the Sky Box will give you composite video out. The switchable adapter will work but only to provide composite video and stereo audio out.

    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    Or would a HDMI to S-Video converter box be better like this: http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=41Would that definately give an S-video picture quality (not composite)?
    You can try one, but devices that produce S-Video and composite video from HDMI have to downscale to 720x576 resolution and interlace progressive video. The quality of the conversion is often not great.

    [Edit]I found this device that uses electronics to convert SCART RGB to S-Video. It might be better for your purposes than an HDMI to S-Video converter: http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=17

    Here is a another SCART RGB to S-Video converter http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/keene-electronics/keene-rgb-to-s-video-convertor-(uk...su)/rgb2s.html

    Both seem to have happy customers: https://www.avforums.com/threads/scart-rgb-to-s-video-converter.162736/
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th Oct 2014 at 16:00. Reason: correct typo add info
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  15. Thanks. Think I'll buy the Keene one. It comes with an S-video cable, should I use that or buy a better cable? What S-video cable would you recommend? What Scart to Scart cable should I get?
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    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    Thanks. Think I'll buy the Keene one. It comes with an S-video cable, should I use that or buy a better cable? What S-video cable would you recommend? What Scart to Scart cable should I get?
    I have a $20 S-Video cable and a $5 S-Video cable and can see no difference, but they are both only about 2 meters long. I don't use SCART because of where I live. My opinion on cables is that if they are not longer than a couple of meters, it makes little difference what you get as long as it is not ridiculously cheap.

    [Edit]I just took a look at the Keene's manual. It says: "Is the RGB mode set to progressive scan? Progressive (or non-interlaced) video cannot be converted to s-video so please adjust your player to give a standard (interlaced) RGB output." I don't know if that is a concern with your Sky Box, but I felt I should mention it.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th Oct 2014 at 18:58.
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  17. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    Why would a satellite receiver output Scart as S-video? I've never heard of that before. I don't see why a box would do that as if it wanted to output S-Video surely it would have an S-video output port?!
    Because SCART standard is capable to provide independent Y & C signal and this is covered by http://fr.meric.free.fr/Articles/articlesba/stsurtvplat/Scart/BS_EN_50049-1%20Peritele...0connector.pdf - S-Video is simply not popular in Europe as Europe was able to use component signal (RGB) on SCART way earlier than YPbPr in North America.
    Most of common silicone chips responsible for creating video signal have no problem to feed S-Video (i.e. Y & C) - they have multiple number video converters (usually 6) and they need only to be set in this configuration, most of European brands will not use such configuration as S-Video is not popular but from technical perspective it is just software.


    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    Where are you getting 576p50 from? My box only outputs 576p at 25fps via HDMI. I can't change to 576i on the Elgato. However I managed to use a HDMI to Component converter which had a scaler to record in 576i however it only worked with the HDPVR and not the Elgato. So it looks like you can modify the HDMI output of my Satellite box to 576i.

    How would I have unnecessary loss of quality by using a HDMI to S-Video converter as opposed to a Scart to S-Video converter?
    Nope 576p25 is not legal from HDMI perspective - minimum pixel clock specified for HDMI is 25MHz, 576p25 video will have pixel clock equal to 13.5MHz that's why for 576i25 (equivalent 576p25) need to use special technique called pixel repetition and in HDMI connector it is in fact 1440x576i25 video mode - this is not well supported and that's why most of vendors use instead 576p20 where pixel clock is 27MHz - they perform deinterlacing and they converting 576i25 to 576p50 (silicone vendor depend what kind of algorithm is used, sometimes it is simple BOB, sometimes more fancy algorithm (for example ELA+MC))

    Conversion loss is due what i've wrote previously - 576i25 need to use pixel repetition (this one is perfectly lossless as 1440 are made at low level of HDMI interface and both HDMI sides always use 720 not 1440 - pixels are just transmitted twice).
    As HDMI standard require 576p50 as mandatory mode most of vendors instead "weird" 720(1440)x576i25 use 720x576p50 mode so if you buy your HDMI to S-Video converter it will accept on input only one of typical video modes (ie.e 576p50, 720p50, 1080i25, 1080p50) - this mean that conversion to 576i25 must be done by this converter and usually this is very simple chip that provide crude bilinear rescaling only, then next loss is related to S-Video itself and with motion you will be exactly in same place as doing capture by direct HDMI method.

    But perhaps your HDMI source is capable to do 576i25 and your capture card is not capable - you should connect capture card to some EDID analyzer but probably you don't have this device but perhaps you have PS3 - go to video configuration and check capture card reported video modes - should work. Then if 720(1440)x576i25 is supported by converter perhaps you can be lucky and video format will be not changed then loss will be related only to S-Video conversion.
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  18. Before I posted anything I connected the HDMI of my satellite box to my TV and I can definitely see half the motion so it only outputs SD at 576p 25fps. The only SD resolution you can select is 576 (doesn't say if it's interlaced or not however it's interlaced if using Scart/Composite but HDMI always gives 576p at 25fps

    I'm going to output at 576i and use the Keene Scart to S-video converter.
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  19. Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    Before I posted anything I connected the HDMI of my satellite box to my TV and I can definitely see half the motion so it only outputs SD at 576p 25fps. The only SD resolution you can select is 576 (doesn't say if it's interlaced or not however it's interlaced if using Scart/Composite but HDMI always gives 576p at 25fps

    I'm going to output at 576i and use the Keene Scart to S-video converter.
    Then you discovered bug in Sky box - that's all i can say - but still please verify if this problem (perceived half of motion) is visible in 720p ?

    I can only tell that HDMI will have no 576p25 and this is not possible so it can be 576p50 with only one field (and you can easily verify this by capturing 576p50 and checking field by field or rather frame by frame ).
    Or you doing something wrong or Sky box is worst than crappiest box i ever tested.
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    Originally Posted by VideoFanatic View Post
    The only SD resolution you can select is 576 (doesn't say if it's interlaced or not however it's interlaced if using Scart/Composite but HDMI always gives 576p at 25fps

    I'm going to output at 576i and use the Keene Scart to S-video converter.
    Since SCART RGB from the Sky Box is the standard 576i, not the non-standard progressive component video signal described by the Keene converter's manual, the Keene converter should be able to convert the signal.

    It still doesn't make sense to me that using the same source (an HDMI to component video converter), the Hauppauge HD-PVR captures at 576i while the Elgato Game Capture HD captures at 576p, although each device is capable of capturing both 576i and 576p.

    The Hauppauge HD-PVR can only capture at the resolution it receives. I know that Elgato Game Capture HD can frame decimate, so I checked the specs at Elgato's website.
    Supported resolutions: 1080p (simultaneous 60 fps pass-through and 30 fps capture), 1080i, 720p (60 or 30 fps capture), 576p, 576i, 480p, 480i, 288p, 240p
    The Elgato Game Capture HD automatically frame decimates 1080p input for capture. The Elgato Game Capture HD can optionally be set up to frame decimate 720p input for capture. The specs don't indicate that it automatically deinterlaces and frame decimates any of the interlaced resolutions that it can accept as input.
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  21. I set the Satellite receiver to 576 resolution. But it only outputs 576p 25fps. Used a HDMI to component converter which has a "change resolution" button which managed to feed 576i to the HD PVR. I watched the recording back on my TV and it was definitely interlaced and nice and smooth. No idea why it worked but it did but couldn't feed 576i into the Elgato. PVR adds artifacts so I won't use that. Will use Scart to S-video with the Keene and Elgato. Thanks
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  22. So I bought the Keene Scart to S-Video converter and connected the S-video to my Elgato Game Capture HD. Picture is good quality however it's darker than the source and there's too much colour (over saturated). I didn't change any colour settings on the Elgato and the Elgato records HDMI from my satellite receiver fine without problems. Is it normal for Scart to S-video conversions to be darker and have more colour?
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