workflow from FCP7 to blu ray

[chlsy8]

Hi all,

I am working on making a blu ray disc from timeline of a 91 minutes film at FCP7, with a Samsung Blu Ray Disc burner. We can't afford to get authorizing company do to this. and I am thinking to get a either Toast or Leawo creator software to work on this by myself.

My question is, which kind of file I should get from FCP7? And what should the settings be? Should I directly send to Compressor (version 3.5.x) as quick time movie or something?

Also does anybody know if there is video or article for any workflow for the whole process?

Thanks so much,
George

[jman98]

Unfortunately this should have been put in our Mac forum as it's too Mac specific. Most of our members don't have Mac experience and posts in the Mac forum get a special symbol on the main page where our Mac experts can see it and respond. I'll ask a moderator to move it for you.

[Cornucopia]

Edit Master -> Encode (AVC/VC1/MPEG2, AC3/DTS/LPCM/etc) -> Author -> Burn/Replicate

Assuming you intend to keep this totally within the Mac realm (common, if not necessarily the best choice):
FCP/FCX -> e.g. ProRes QT.MOV or similar ~Lossless (w/ LCPM audio such as AIFF) -> Compressor -> e.g. AVC (aka h.264) video + LPCM audio -> Leawo Blu-ray Creator for Mac, or Toast 12 Titanium -> BD25 or BD50.

Filesize=Bitrate*RunningTime

Niceties such as menus & chapters, navigation will be a bitch with either of those apps, however. They're not that high level. Nor is ANY Mac app very supportive of Blu-ray in general.

Scott

[smrpix]

The most economical way on a mac is probably to get a one month Adobe Premiere CC 2014 license. Use that to download Premiere CS6 which includes Encore. Learn Encore, and use Encore to author your BR.

No. I'm not kidding.

[Cornucopia]

Do they allow one-month-only licensing? If so, you're probably right. Except,

The ability to install CS6 applications is only available to paid Creative Cloud subscribers and not available with trial memberships. It is not possible to install Encore CS6 with a trial membership to Creative Cloud.

Is a 1-month license = a trial membership?

Once that's ironed out, could use Premiere->Encore, or FCP->Compressor->Encore, whichever is easier workflow or gives better quality (or both) for you.

Scott

[smrpix]

They do seem to have a monthly plan, so as I read it, it's 19.95 + tax. (Do double-check with Adobe, however.)

[chlsy8]

Thanks Scott and Smrpix!

When I export the video from FCP7 to compressor - should I use "Share" button or "Compressor"? I have 5.1 sound files lined up in FCP7 - should I set up 5.1 in compressor? or it will automatically go as 5.1.ac3 file? Do I need to set up the average bit rate manually so my 25GB Blank disc can have enough space on it?

Thanks so much!
George

[Cornucopia]

Manually setup bitrate? Yes. Personally, I'd ALWAYS go that route (2pass VBR, when outputting for disc).

You have 5.1, and want it on the BD? Make sure Encore, Toast, Leawo, etc support whichever codec you intend to use. If AC3 is acceptable quality? good. If you want it uncompressed? good. Do whatever you prefer. Both are acceptable in BD.

Can't remember what "Share" does...I would always use "Compressor". If you want to keep an High-quality intermediate master (I usually do - backup/safety), you could also just do an Export Movie and open that up separately in Compressor.

Scott

[chlsy8]

You mean export to qt mov file without compressing (use current setting)?

Yes I have 5.1 and festival want blu ray - is there anything wrong with that? Sorry I am a total newbie and don't know much

What I mean by bit rate is at Compressor stage - I haven't got to that far with burning disc yet. Since you said file size = bit rate x minute, I want to set Average Bit Rate at 22 (in inspector window) since my film is 97 minutes, to burn on 25 gb bd-r (which real size is maybe around 23gb, i guess), so it won't be too big to burn on the disc. I couldn't find where to choose 2-pass or VBR (maybe that is leawo stage?) but the inspector show you can choose multiple pass - I didn't choose that one.

The setting I am using on compressor is H.264 for blu-Ray, and Dolby digital professional.

Thanks Scott!

[Cornucopia]

Export that I was talking about would be:
1. Uncompressed
2. Losslessly compressed (e.g. QT Animation codec @ 100%)
3. Near losslessly compressed (e.g. ProRes, Cineform, DNxHD, or AIC codec)
(pick one) - current setting is PROBABLY ProRes (often the default for FCP)

5.1 audio is fine.

"H.264 for Blu-ray" is a stock setting & bitrate, which can be adjusted/customized.

Filesize = Bitrate * RunningTime, or (restated) Bitrate = Filesize / RunningTime, so

BD-25 = 23.3GiB = 190,873.6Mbits
97min = 5820 seconds

So 190873.6 / 5820 = 32.79Mbps Max Avg. Bitrate for all streams.
Minus 4.39Mbps for LPCM 5.1 audio = 28.4 for the Average Video Bitrate. Max would be ~40Mbps. Min can be whatever it works out to in order for the average to equal 28.4.
Compressor has 2pass VBR capability. Been too long since I used it to tell you precisely where it is, though.

You are encoding with Compressor, not Toast, Encore, or Leawo. Those would all be sub-optimal Mac encoding choices. You would only be authoring with one of those 3. Refer again to my original workflow arrows...

2pass should be done in compressor. It may say "multiple pass". Choose it.

Scott

[smrpix]

If you go the Encore route I would recommend letting Encore do the final recompression to Blu-Ray compliant files. If you do it in compressor or almost anything else, there will almost certainly be something a little out of spec Encore will reject. It's very fussy.

I agree with Scott, good choices for compressor out would be, ProRes, QT Animation, or DNxHD.

Also macs are very clever about interoperability between applications. You may be able to simply drag your sequence from your FCP bin into Encore's project window. If it works you'll save a compression step. If it doesn't work, it's cost you 30 seconds to try.

[chlsy8]

Thanks, Scott and smrpix!
Scott, I suppose all three choices of compression you mentioned are fine, right? And you are right with the calculation - I set the average bit rate as 22 last night and let it run overnight and this morning the file (first time successful!) is like only 14 GB. So I am running again today with higher bit rate and multiple pass.

Now that I have a leawo creator for windows and a samsung BD burner (windows and mac) - is there a way to transfer file to burn the blu Ray under Windows? Or maybe I should go ahead buy Leawo creator mac or Toast 12?

Thanks again guys!

[Cornucopia]

I was unclear that, with all the other items being Mac, you would have gotten a PC version of Leawo. Barring format/version inconsistencies, I would think the Mac version would be more suitable.

Scott

[chlsy8]

Lol Scott. I got it the leawo (windows) for free long time ago.

I have a question about the sound files (.ac3, about 300 MB) from the compressor - I did line up 6 sound files on FCP before exporting it. Is this AC3 file automatically 5.1 sound file?

Thanks so much Scott!

[smrpix]

George, you're holding back relevant information which makes it harder to help. Like Scott, It never occurred to me you would switch platforms midstream -- it adds unnecessary complexity.

What are your PC specs?
What version of Leawo are you using?
How are you planning on moving your files from Mac to PC?
You do realize that some files are Mac proprietary and will not be read even if they are transferred?
If you set it up correctly, your Dolby Digital audio is probably 5.1, but as with anything, check.

[Cornucopia]

Ac3 can be 1.0, 2.0,...4.0,...5.1, a whole range of options - depending upon the software options, what your source media files are like, and how you set it up to encode. Usually it's a 1:1 transfer in to out, but not necessarily.

How about you back up and explain what you envision as your whole start to finish workflow, along with detailed description of your media and equipment assets.

Scott

[chlsy8]

ok here is my workflow/thoughts:
Mac pro (2008) FCP 7 sequence setting in timeline is

1920x1080 HDTV 1080i 16:9
Pixel aspect ratio: square
Editing timebase: 23.98
Quicktime video setting is : Compressor Apple ProRes 422
Audio setting: 48 Khz 24 bit Discrete channels
with audio output 6 5.1 channels

In the timeline I have 6 audio files each assigned to 1-6

these sound files are .aif files imported from studio prepared sound files, 16 bit)
These video files were originally shot in Canon T3i, HD, then edited and color corrected (probably through Encore I am not sure)

So I did Share in FCP7 - it automatically turned on a pop up window
I set up desitination folder, blu ray is automatically chosen,
I didn't choose create a blu ray disc since I don't plan to burn it in compressor
I clicked Send to Compressor

Now compressor (3.5.x) is on, two jobs were automatically show up:
1. H.264 for Blu Ray
2. Dolby digital professional

I highlight H.264 for blu ray, shown in inspector
In inspector window, I chose Blu Ray instead of AVCHD at stream usage
ABR shows 29.35 and Mximum BR is 33.76 (default setting)
I chose multi pass today as Scott instructed today

I highlight dolby profession, shown in inspector
I didn't change anything, below is default setting
it says target system DVD video
chose enable LFE
sample rate 48KHz
Data rate: 448 kbps
Bit stream mode: complete main
Dialog normalization -27dbfs
at Bitstream
it show center downmix -3 db
surround downmix -3b

Then I hit SUBMIT, the job was done in like 5 hours. The final video file is 19 GB and sound file is 0.3 GB

My questions is,
How to find out if the final .ac3 is 5.1 surrounding or not?

I think I am going to buy a Toast 12 tomorrow and see if I can burn a blu Ray on my Mac pro (OSX 10.5.x) with Samsung portable BD writer. Can you make a simple menu with Toast 12? The concern about using leawo creator is that it needs OSX 10.6 above - I did order the OSX 10.6 from apple store for 20 bucks but it won't arriveduntil next week.

Thanks so much guys!!!

[chlsy8]

In the settings under compressor,
There are two more options under APPLE - FORMAT - AUDIO
Dolby Digital Professional 5.1
and
Quicktime Surround 5.1

The Dolby Digital Professional 5.1's Summary under Inspector window is the same as the summary of Dolby Digital Professional (Auto/default), shown in post above (48khz 6 channels, 16 bits etc)
While quick time surround 5.1 summary under inspector window is very simple:
it says: creates quick time 5.1 PCM audio, 48 KHz, File extension: .mov. Estimated size 518 Mb. Audio encoder: 16-bit integer (little Endian), 5.1 (LRCLFE LSRS) 48 khz

[Cornucopia]

Hard to tell if that first AC3 encode is 5.1 or not, though the 448 bitrate would lead one to expect it is. You could, of course, use MediaInfo on it to find out (and it's a good practice to do that for many of your files).

The DD Pro5.1 is clearly a 5.1 setting, so if the 1st encode did NOT work right, that one should.

You DON'T want to use the QT Surround 5.1, as you will get a QT.MOV file with 5.1 channels of LPCM audio. This is basically just repackaging your existing input files, though I would expect QT might do something stupid like re-encode (because even though the source AIFFs are 16bit, the timeline is 24bit and it would need to do something to get back to 16bit).

********************************

What does the Toast literature say about menus? I didn't see any mention, and if it doesn't mention it, you can be pretty sure that means they don't support it (marketing would love to have more bullet points to run).

What is the format of your Compressor-outputted BD-compliant file? Is it an AVC in a QT.MOV? an AVC in an M2TS? a RAW AVC (as "***.h264" or some such)? If you're not sure, again, use MediaInfo.

What I'm getting at is that you COULD use your source files in Leawo (PC), but it depends on how you'd GET them to the PC. Where is one? - Connected via network (like mine)? Connected via portable HDD and/or USB stick (like mine)? Using spanned CD/DVD/BD recordables (as data discs)? or On a separate boot partition of your same machine?

Scott

[Case]

I think I am going to buy a Toast 12 tomorrow and see if I can burn a blu Ray on my Mac pro (OSX 10.5.x) with Samsung portable BD writer. Can you make a simple menu with Toast 12? The concern about using leawo creator is that it needs OSX 10.6 above - I did order the OSX 10.6 from apple store for 20 bucks but it won't arrived until next week.

Toast does allow you to add a menu to navigate between various clips. No motion or audio in the menus, though. But it features some ~20 menu styles, all of which allow for a custom background image, replacing the style background, if desired.

[chlsy8]

With media info, the .ac3 file is like this:

General
Complete name : /Volumes/Elements/Blu Ray test 2014 summer/07192014-Blu-ray.ac3
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
File size : 310 MiB
Duration : 1h 36mn
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 448 Kbps

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Duration : 1h 36mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 310 MiB (100%)

The BD file is:
General
Complete name :
/Volumes/Elements/Blu Ray test 2014 summer/07192014-Blu-ray.264
Format :
AVC
Format/Info :
Advanced Video Codec
File size :
19.0 GiB
Overall bit rate mode :
Variable
Video
Format :
AVC
Format/Info :
Advanced Video Codec
Format profile :
High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC :
Yes
Format settings, ReFrames :
3 frames
Bit rate mode :
Variable
Maximum bit rate :
33.8 Mbps
Width :
1 920 pixels
Height :
1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio :
16:9
Frame rate :
23.976 fps
Standard :
NTSC
Color space :
YUV
Chroma subsampling :
4:2:0
Bit depth :
8 bits
Scan type :
Progressive
Color primaries :
BT.709
Transfer characteristics :
BT.709
Matrix coefficients :
BT.709

Thanks Scott for this useful tool!!!

[chlsy8]

My two files are in portable MAC-formatted drive with USB - I tried to hook up with my windows laptop but it won't read any of the files.

All my machines have only one partition. The BD burner is portable, says okay with both windows and mac.

Case, Toast has pretty bad reviews in Amazon so I am not sure if I should go ahead buy it. Can one make an extra subtitle menu with toast, besides the typical, Play movie, chapters, etc? Or maybe toast 12 PRO can do that work?

Thanks so much guys!!!

[smrpix]

My two files are in portable MAC-formatted drive with USB - I tried to hook up with my windows laptop but it won't read any of the files.

That's why I asked. You need MacDrive or similar software for windows to read mac drives.

Your life would be simpler keeping this all on one platform. And really, that $20 for Encore is going to look smaller and smaller as you compare it to the hoops you have to jump through and the apps you have to buy to make this work any other way.

[Cornucopia]

I agree with all that smrpix just said. MacDrive is $50, Paragon NTFS-for-Mac is $20. MacFuse+NTFS-3G is opensource & free, but isn't an easy setup.

Even if you get this to a PC (which one?), can you be assured that you'd get one that is
1. Good enough specs
2. Has a working, appropriate BD burner
3. Has proper BD authoring software (which includes Menus+chapters support enough for your needs)
4. Easy for you to use

Scott

[chlsy8]

So are these two files looking right? It seems the H264 is AVC file but not sure the AC3 is the 5.1.

Thanks for the suggestions from both of you - I don't think I can handle burning it in windows.

[Cornucopia]

Not sure? It says "6 channels"="L,R,C,Ls,Rs, & LFE". That's "5.1". I don't know how it can be any clearer than that.

Scott

[chlsy8]

Not sure? It says "6 channels"="L,R,C,Ls,Rs, & LFE". That's "5.1". I don't know how it can be any clearer than that.

Scott

I guess now I am not sure about anything LOL. Thanks Scott!

[Case]

My two files are in portable MAC-formatted drive with USB - I tried to hook up with my windows laptop but it won't read any of the files.
All my machines have only one partition. The BD burner is portable, says okay with both windows and mac.

Either format the portable drive in Windows friendly file system (e.g. ExFAT (you can do that on the Mac)), or make the pc read HFS+ (Mac file system) with a tool like MacDrive.

Case, Toast has pretty bad reviews in Amazon so I am not sure if I should go ahead buy it.

Without reading those reviews, I can say that if you buy directly from Roxio, you have a 30 days money back guarantee. Resellers may be less cooperative in that regard.

Can one make an extra subtitle menu with toast, besides the typical, Play movie, chapters, etc? Or maybe toast 12 PRO can do that work?

No subtitle menu can be made from within Toast when you author the disc yourself. Users have asked for it, but Roxio hasn't added that. ‘Pro’ doesn't add professional options imho, but adds some extra apps and the $20 blu-ray plugin to the mix.

[chlsy8]

Thanks Case.

Do you know if Leawo or Encore can make the subtitle menu? If not, who does?

[Cornucopia]

Encore? - Yes, though it's still limited. Leawo? - IDK, probably not. There are others (incl. better ones), but they're all PC.

Scott