how to make this effect - moving marker

[poisondeathray]

Compare Scott's example to the soccer clip. See how the ring transsects through the player(s)' leg ? . That' s just a simple overlay








In most cases, tracking the ground plane (of any sport/shot/content) is actually easier in most cases than tracking a person. The ground really doesn't move, it's the camera motion that is causing the motion. You also have vast amounts of open terrain to track, whereas players can be obscured by other players and you might have to use blocking mattes. Using a planar tracker like Mocha makes ground tracking very easy . But that's for compositing something on the ground plane, not a tracking marker for a player. Roto & masks are still the gold standard because keying is unreliable unless the shot is perfect, not overlapping hues

[budwzr]

I "get it", that you can "hand-shnizzel" it on a still with roto, GarbMasks, hours of work, etc.

So there's no simpler way to do it then? No magic combination of blend modes? Nothing sublime?

[poisondeathray]

I "get it", that you can "hand-shnizzel" it on a still with roto, GarbMasks, hours of work, etc.

So there's no simpler way to do it then? No magic combination of blend modes? Nothing sublime?

No shortcuts to make it look good. If a certain blend mode works for one set of uniform colors/conditions on a certain color of ground, it won't work for another, or you have to use another blend mode. That's why they use the "cheap" overlay method. It's fast and easy to do .

[Cornucopia]

Hours? That was 10-15 minutes, tops. Took more time to figure out the proper layer structure. No Roto on my sample, either. Just color selection & masking as a keyer would do.

But, no, there is NO magic, simpler way - especially for live, realtime fx. Me, i would incorporate LIDAR and MOCAP functionality onto the existing cams in use to get better sync & registration for the tracking (I have seen some games where the overlay roughness was noticeable).

Scott

[budwzr]

Hours? That was 10-15 minutes, tops.

Sorry, I meant if you had to do it on a video, as opposed to a still.

Well, I'm glad to know this is no simple task, because I've been pondering it, off and on, for a long time. I assumed there was a magic formula.

[budwzr]

Compare Scott's example to the soccer clip. See how the ring transsects through the player(s)' leg ? . That' s just a simple overlay

Yeah, they mickeymoused it, and nobody probably noticed, except editors.

Compositing is somewhat like Alchemy, in that we're all looking for the Philosopher's Stone.

[poisondeathray]

It's not "mickymouseing" . The soccer clip probably doesn't have NFL budget, nor was there any indication it was live. It looks like some typical post game analysis / highlights reel.

[budwzr]

It's not "mickymouseing" ....

Ummm...the "e" would be dropped i.e. "mickeymousing"

[poisondeathray]

It's not "mickymouseing" ....

Ummm...the "e" would be dropped i.e. "mickeymousing"

hahaha .... I wouldn't know, I didn't graduate from the mickey mouse club

[budwzr]

Hahaha.

I don't necessarily use the term "mickeymousing" as derogatory if it gets the job done, and it DOES in this case. I've seen plenty of it on American Broadcast TV as well. It makes sense to "MM" certain things because the extra effort to make perfect doesn't always equate to the cost of doing so.

The question is, "does it fly?". And in this case, it does because the eye is too busy with the overall action on screen to notice.

I think this is a good example of how you can fudge an effect that otherwise would cost an arm and a leg to implement. I'm sure the "boys" down at "NFL Onscreen Greenline Inc.", or whatever, hate to see this cheaper alternative.

P.S. Who the heck is Kym Johnson?

[poisondeathray]

Yeah, you need 2.5 D or better space.

That swats a lot of of the little flies off the fence.

The "usual suspects" like premiere pro, sony vegas can still do this "cheap alternative". eg. In premiere you can use "basic 3d" , in vegas you can use 3d track motion. You can even do this in the freeware debugmode wax (that is, if it doesn't crash on you). Basically you just need to be able to make adjustments to tilting or perspective so the overlay lies parallel to the ground plane.

[budwzr]

The $99 software does not support this type of editing environment. This is an example of one of the limitations that keep you from advancing, then force you to buy a real NLE and go through the whole learning curve again with a different vernacular or paradigm.

Luckily Vegas Movie Studio users can trade up for full value later, if need be.

Speaking of debugwaxmode, another older software I like is Particle Illusion. Unfortunately, GenArts bought it out and essentially buried it in favor of their newer sexier software that costs a bundle. You can still buy it for 300 spaggs, but a little overpriced.

[poisondeathray]

vegas movie studio doesn't have "3d track motion", but the premiere elements version has "basic 3d"

I thought you could do it in the freeware aviutl, using "animation effect" with 3dMapping as it has dx, dy, dz rotation - but I can't get it working ... Maverick any thoughts ?

[smrpix]

vegas movie studio doesn't have "3d track motion"

The effect appears and fades so quickly I would just approximate it manually with simple keyframes. Even if it takes 3 or 4, it's probably quicker than actual tracking.

[budwzr]

vegas movie studio doesn't have "3d track motion"

The effect appears and fades so quickly I would just approximate it manually with simple keyframes. Even if it takes 3 or 4, it's probably quicker than actual tracking.

The "3D Tracking" in VegasPro refers to the video track itself, not object tracking. AKA "Card Animation".

Unfortunately, Vegas didn't try to grow any AE-Style tools, but instead it's a rock solid "standard" editor. I went with HitFilm to get the AE tools for half the price.

Another option for Vegas Pro users is BorisCC, but that's a plug in and quickly gets swamped down running within Vegas. Boris does have some very excellent tools though. More deeper than HitFilm.

[Cornucopia]

Seems unintuitive, and I haven't tried it yet, but it's possible that BluffTitler could do this, too.

Scott

[racer-x]

vegas movie studio doesn't have "3d track motion", but the premiere elements version has "basic 3d"

I thought you could do it in the freeware aviutl, using "animation effect" with 3dMapping as it has dx, dy, dz rotation - but I can't get it working ... Maverick any thoughts ?

You can do it with Aviutl. I did a very quick test and used 3-D filter "Simple deformation" to give the 3-D look. This was a very quick test and Could get better quality if I played with it.

[poisondeathray]

racer, where is 3-D filter "simple deformation" ? I can't find it anywhere? Maybe I need to download newer version ?

[racer-x]

Ooops, it's "Animation Effect" > Simple deformation.

I did it so fast, I forgot which filter family I used.......

[racer-x]

This one is a little better. It's hard to do with a crappy source video file like this one.

[budwzr]

How did you get the graphic underneath the players?

[poisondeathray]

ok got it. It's a bit tough to manually align the box, but at least it's a "doable" free alternative

Hey did you put your anti-clown there because the goal keeper was a doofus clown in the clip Look at him "swimming" in the air! LOL

[poisondeathray]

How did you get the graphic underneath the players?

Whacha talking 'bout ?


It's the same overlay technique. Look at it more closely, the players are transected

The keeper needs a Tutu outfit LOL

[racer-x]

How did you get the graphic underneath the players?

Pretty much what Scott said. I used 3 layers. Bottom layer= background. 2nd layer= graphic in screen mode and opacity adjusted. Top layer= background + Chroma Key green grass.

I thought the Goal keeper was a little clownish......

[poisondeathray]

How did you get the graphic underneath the players?

Whacha talking 'bout ?

[Attachment 26475 - Click to enlarge]

It's the same overlay technique. Look at it more closely, the players are transected

The keeper needs a Tutu outfit LOL

How did you get the graphic underneath the players?

Pretty much what Scott said. I used 3 layers. Bottom layer= background. 2nd layer= graphic in screen mode and opacity adjusted. Top layer= background + Chroma Key green grass.

Hahaha I guess I'll eat my words. Time for me to get glasses. But the 1st video & 2nd video used different technique.

And important to note the layer order is swapped in aviutl compared to "normal" configuration

[budwzr]

So aviutil has blend modes? What about parent/child? (compositing operations hierarchy control)

What does "Bottom Layer=background mean? Background of what?

[racer-x]

It's got a lot of stuff that I don't know about. I've only been playing with it for the past few months. MaverickTse is the local guru on Aviutl. I do know that it has 3-D camera mode where you can select tracks to control via camera view. But in all honesty, I've barely scratched the surface.

[MaverickTse]

Blend mode(labeled as "Synthesis mode"):


[Layer 1] Original video (BG/Bottom layer)
[Layer 2] Clown
[Layer 3] People only (chroma-keyed the green grass)

[racer-x]

What does "Bottom Layer=background mean? Background of what?

I worded it for a Vegas guy like you to understand, but as PDR pointed out the track order is actually reversed in Aviutl.

Anyway, Background is just the source video track.

[budwzr]

OK, I get it now. Not the holy grail of technique, but a lot better than the crude overlay method.

Actually, Vegas uses the proper terminology. It's the other NLE's that obfuscate.