Mini DV not detected (New to Firewire)

[zerowalker]

Okay so, i am trying to transfer some Mini DV tapes via Firewire, as from what i can understand, DV are digital tapes (MPEG-2?), so it would be prefered to transfer it lossless and not through AV-Out for obvious reasons.


Now the model is: Sony DCR-HC27E - PAL.

Problem is, i am not able to get it detected at all when connecting the Firewire, not in any mode.

From what i know, The PC first tested on was the owner of this Camcorder (i am helping out), and it wasn't detected there, but his friends camcorder was detected (From what i got of it, they used the same cable, same port, just different camcorders).

And this Camcorder is not detected on my PC either.


My guess is as follows.

Either the Firewire port is fried (know idea if it is, just read that it Can happen?)

Or the Cable doesn't work with this Camcorder (Read some problematics with Sony's).

(Cable is, 4 -> 6pin)

Now as said, i am new to this, so i am all in for any testing that may help this.

Thanks!

[aedipuss]

most likely your first guess is correct. the connector on the camera motherboard is only lightly soldiered on and they break off easily and the 27e was about as cheap as they made them.

[zerowalker]

So, it's not fried, just "disconnected"?

Is there a way to know if it works, i mean, like knowing if there is any flow at all (don't have any electrical tools though)?

Also, you had this cam yourself?

[turk690]

Several things have to absolutely be in place for a DV camcorder to successful be connected and recogized by a computer firewire port:

• the camcorder and computer firewire ports and cable being used are known to be mechanically and electrically working
• correct drivers are installed for the computer firewire port (easily verified by inspecting device manager)
• no programs on the computer that have nothing to do with the OS and firewire transfer (such as a wi-fi connection and/or internet browsing) are open and running
• the computer is verified to be malware and virus-free
• the firewire hub/device/card in the computer is OHCI, has a Texas Instruments chipset, and is firewire400 (not 800)
• a verified working capture/transfer program is running (capture portions of movie/DVD maker or premiere, or WinDV)

Assuming all of the above are met, the connection ritual consists of

• powering down computer and camcorder completely, unplug
• power both up again (do not connect)
• in camcorder settings, set DV out to enable, or choose AV>DV out, or any setting that sounds the same
• on computer, disconnect any and all USB devices apart from probably keyboard/mouse
• ensure no program in windoze is open; this includes bloat, mal, and trashware that automatically gets loaded on startup (especially for laughtops)
• absolutely disconnect/disable LAN, blutut, wi-fi
• open device manager; expand imaging devices
• connect camcorder to computer firewire port

If successful you should hear a "ding" then camcorder should appear under imaging devices (i.e. Sony DV camcorder). Camcorder firewire ports are exceptionally fragile. They can easily be destroyed when the piece of plastic where the four pins are resting on get broken because of mishandling (like tugging/pulling at the connector sideways). Different camcorders also behave differently. On some, though firewire is bidirectional, you have to deliberately enable DV out. Some allow pass-through (AV>DV-out), where an analog input can be made to appear as DV out in camera mode with no cassette in deck, others can only do the same if a cassette is in the deck. Others get recognized by windoze when they connected while in STOP mode; others are not seen unless they are deliberately plugged in while camcorder is playing a tape.
With all possibilities and combinations above it is initially hard to judge which parts of the chain are causing the problem; diligence and patience is key. This is not as simple or as casual as plugging in a USB device.

[zerowalker]

Well much should be met, though the chipset is VIA as far as i can see (p7p55d-e pro MB).

As far as i know, my Camcorder is "plug&play" no need to activate DV out, can at least not find anything about it in the manual.

Haven't really tried disabling many applications and devices though, guess it's worth a try.

[TreeTops]

Have you tried WinDV? If WinDV doesn't see your camera then something else is failing as posted in post #4.

[zerowalker]

Yes i have, and sadly it's not recognized. Nothing happens at all when i connect the firewire. It should says DV Out or something on the LCD, but i don't see a thing. And nothing happens in Device Manager.

Really frustrating

[turk690]

...though the chipset is VIA as far as i can see....

Big fail? In all previous experiences I had, replacing the card with one that had TI chipset worked from the get go. I suspect this is not about VIA per se, but that it's a universal host controller interface (UHCI), which will never work with DV camcorders. We need absolutely open host (OHCI).

As far as i know, my Camcorder is "plug&play" no need to activate DV out, can at least not find anything about it in the manual.

Because your camcorder doesn't have analog in, DV out is indeed enabled by default but you still can't use the term plug'n'play.
There is nothing in this thread, btw, that even gives us a hint of what computer this camcorder is being connected to. This info is crucial; post it. Is that a desktop or laughtop? OS? CPU?

[zerowalker]

Thing is, the first PC that it was being connected to (Windows XP, no idea about the system) worked for another DV camera, and i am pretty sure it was VIA as well when i checked.

Is that a desktop or laughtop? OS? CPU?

I posted my MB name, so it's a Desktop.

P7P55D-E PRO

CPU: i5 760 @ 4ghz (Not that overclock should matter though?)
OS: Windows 8.1 64 bit

[turk690]

....so it's a Desktop...

...which means it has PCI and PCIe slots and therefore amenable to having a firewire400 TI-chipset card installed. Some of these cards are old stock though, so they may not have 64bit drivers, let alone windoze8.
OHCI Firewire cards and devices that connect to them were in vogue during windows xp days; it's entirely possible your friend's computer was of that type. Apart from HDV camcorders (which itself is being phased out), there is little support for firewire cards with 64bitwin8; some are forced to dig up an idle working windozeXP computer just to pull off DV data from the tape. No, DV is not MPEG2, though HDV is.

[aedipuss]

since the first computer firewire port and the cable both worked with another cam but not the sony you can pretty much deduce that the sony is toast. it was about the cheapest minidv cam of it's time. try ebay to pick up a used working minidv cam.

[zerowalker]

Well, i have bought an AV-Out with S-Video and a cheap PCI Firewire and also 4-4 cable, so i will try that, and if that doesn't work, well i guess i will have to look at AV-Out for now (As much as i hate it though).

[2Bdecided]

From what i know, The PC first tested on was the owner of this Camcorder (i am helping out), and it wasn't detected there, but his friends camcorder was detected (From what i got of it, they used the same cable, same port, just different camcorders).

Use the other camcorder. Or a different camcorder. Old used DV camcorders cost very little on eBay.

Cheers,
David.

[The_Doman]

since the first computer firewire port and the cable both worked with another cam but not the sony you can pretty much deduce that the sony is toast. it was about the cheapest minidv cam of it's time.

You always should be careful when connecting firewire devices to a PC.
Specially the firewire with Sony camcorders are prone to get damaged when connected to a working PC.

I personally turn off my PC and camcorder when connecting everything.

[zerowalker]

Well in worst case, i guess looking for an olv DV camcorder would be an idea, but well much depends on price, and first i will have to try the Firewire things i bought, you never know.

You always should be careful when connecting firewire devices to a PC.
Specially the firewire with Sony camcorders are prone to get damaged when connected to a working PC.

Read much about that, but is there a way to know if it's damaged?

[smrpix]

is there a way to know if it's damaged?

If you don't have the skillset to take the camera apart, inspect and test it, take it in to a shop. That alone will cost more than a new used camera. However, everything posted here so far strongly suggests it is damaged. (See specifically aedipuss' post #11)

[zerowalker]

Well sadly, i don't have any knowledge at all about this stuff.

It's weird that it's broken though, as far as i know, it's Never been connected to a PC at all, this is the first time.
And the owner couldn't get it to work, which would mean it "died" on the first plug, which seem quite extraordinary.

[smrpix]

It's weird that it's broken though, as far as i know, it's Never been connected to a PC at all, this is the first time.
And the owner couldn't get it to work, which would mean it "died" on the first plug, which seem quite extraordinary.

It happens. No doubt the warranty on that camera is long gone too.

[zerowalker]

True, can't deny it.

I really doubt it, it's like 3 years old if not more.

[turk690]

Well sadly, i don't have any knowledge at all about this stuff.
It's weird that it's broken though, as far as i know, it's Never been connected to a PC at all, this is the first time.
And the owner couldn't get it to work, which would mean it "died" on the first plug, which seem quite extraordinary.

Inspect the camcorder firewire connector in strong light and see if anything is broken.
Also, firewire connectors, like USB and other connectors that merely mate contact surfaces, can oxidize/get dirty over time. A camcorder that has been sitting on the shelf for years unused is prime candidate. I would take camcorder, blow it out and remove as much external dirt as possible, then plug a firewire connector in, gently pull it out, plug it in again, maybe 10x. Isopropyl alcohol on the connector helps.
Some DV camcorders need to be connected to their AC adapters (not just battery) for DV out to be allowed; their manuals may not be explicit about this.

[zerowalker]

I have looked into it, but i can't see anything out of order (though it's really small, so not much to see really).

I have blown in it, and also cleaned it with 99.9% alcohol, or well i tried with a (ear cleaner thing), not sure if it helped, should i try pour it in, as Alcholo as far as i know doesn't damage electrical circuits in any way?

Also most likely plugged it a couple of times now.

Tried with and without Battery on the other PC, haven't actually done it here, will do that just in case.