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  1. Member
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    Your method of comparison may be flawed.
    jagabo, this crossed my mind. However, what counts is the resulting DVD and the image on the TV or monitor screen. On both the slight vertical stretch is noticeable and becomes annoying once you know it is there.. On the screen it rather looks like the width has shrunk.
    I cannot quite follow your explanation, but if I got you right you are saying that the end result depends on an interaction between various parameters in codecs and players which cannot be predicted?

    Are you sure you didn't apply different filters or something? Try creating the video again from scratch.
    No, I did not apply any filters. The result is even crazier than I thought at first, since even the figure 'eight' shrinks, whereas the the circle around it does not!


    manono, the 720 width is filled alright (no black bars); the problem is that, on the screen, the picture is slightly narrower. I now consider to stretch the picture HORIZONTALLY by approx 2%. However then I lose again 2% of the picture, after I have lost already some in johnmeyer's AviSynth script (for stabilization).
    Maybe it would be wiser to do the horizontal 2% stretch before the AviSynth stage? What do you think?
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  2. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    what counts is the resulting DVD and the image on the TV or monitor screen. On both the slight vertical stretch is noticeable and becomes annoying once you know it is there.. On the screen it rather looks like the width has shrunk.
    This make perfect sense for a digital signal path if you are starting with rec.601 video. The DVD spec says the DAR is contained in the entire 720 pixel wide frame whereas the rec.601 spec says the DAR is contained in a ~704 pixel wide portion of that frame. In my experience DVD/Blu-ray players and TVs follow the DVD spec when upscaling digital content to full screen. So a rec.601 source will look slightly squished horizontally.

    Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    I cannot quite follow your explanation, but if I got you right you are saying that the end result depends on an interaction between various parameters in codecs and players which cannot be predicted?
    Yes. You have to determine for yourself how the player handles aspect ratios for different containers and codecs.
    Last edited by jagabo; 18th Jun 2015 at 10:14.
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  3. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    Maybe it would be wiser to do the horizontal 2% stretch before the AviSynth stage? What do you think?
    If you don't want to crop away picture in order to get the aspect ratio correct (and I don't blame you), then I already suggested an alternative:
    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    ... but it's about the best you can do short of adding slight letterboxing.
    You could use the AddBorders or Letterbox commands (or do it in Premiere, if possible) to add a slight amount of black above and below and resize to 576 afterwards. That way the active video gets 'compressed' vertically, making the circles round again. If your television overscans a bit then the added black might not even be visible when watching the video. And even if it is visible, it's only a small amount of black. I do this myself sometimes when my source isn't in the correct aspect ratio.
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    jagabo,
    Yes. You have to determine for yourself how the player handles aspect ratios for different containers and codecs.
    Meanwhile I found a further explanation at Afterdawn: http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/term.cfm/itu-r_bt_601
    where it says:
    " When using DV as a source for other formats that respect the ITU-R BT.601 specifications with regard to line length it may be desirable to resize to match the active area of your TV's picture and add borders to the sides. "
    This led me to the conclusion that apparently resizing is the only thing one could actually do about it. This would also be in line with manono's suggestion of "slight letterboxing".
    Are my assumptions correct?

    manono, of course you are right. Losing picture area is easily avoided by reducing height rather than width..
    and resize to 576 afterwards.
    Apparently this is automatically done during exporting to avi.
    At least this is what Mediacoder says:
    Name:  Mediacoder 98%AVI.JPG
Views: 425
Size:  16.1 KB

    Or isn't that what you meant?
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  5. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    This led me to the conclusion that apparently resizing is the only thing one could actually do about it.
    You could crop 16 pixels (total) off the left and right and encode at 704 pixels wide. In theory DVD players will output that correctly but it wouldn't surprise me if some players decode the 704 pixel video into a 720 pixel wide frame buffer (essentially adding black border) and output that full frame as 4:3. Or you could crop and resize back up to 720 pixels.

    Pretty much every DVD made from analog tape is captured with standard rec.601 equipment and is written to DVD without adjusting for the ~2 percent AR difference. It's rare that there's something on screen where the difference is really noticeable. And if you spend your time looking for such AR problems -- the content obviously isn't engaging enough to be worth watching.
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    jagabo
    You could crop 16 pixels (total) off the left and right and encode at 704 pixels wide.
    OK, but I do not have the faintest idea on how to do that.. In Premiere I can change width and height percetage-wise, not pixelwise. Any clue?


    It's rare that there's something on screen where the difference is really noticeable.
    Well, it is. The content is historic family material and people look taller and thinner than they are (or have been!). In short: quite engaging, at least to me. And you are right: I'm trying to spend as little time as possible on these technical issues and, incidentally, that is the reason why I am repeatedly asking how to do things..
    After spending months on coming to grips with AviSynth I think it is wortwhile to spend a couple of hours on this AR problem, instead of letting it spoil the excellent results that were achieved thanks to you guys!

    In short: vertical cropping (to 98%) would seem the best solution for all contingincies. Would you agree?
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  7. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    jagabo
    You could crop 16 pixels (total) off the left and right and encode at 704 pixels wide.
    OK, but I do not have the faintest idea on how to do that.. In Premiere I can change width and height percetage-wise, not pixelwise. Any clue?
    I don't use Premiere so I can't advise you there. But you can easily convert pixels to percent. In AviSynth it's a simple Crop(left, top, -right, -bottom). So Crop(8,0,-8,-0) will remove 8 pixels from the left and 8 pixels from the right. (If you use positive values for right and bottom you are specifying the width and height to keep.) You don't have to crop evenly. Crop(4,0,-12,-0) would remove 4 from the left, 12 from the right.

    Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    In short: vertical cropping (to 98%) would seem the best solution for all contingincies. Would you agree?
    You mean vertical resizing? Whether that's best or not depends on the video. Is there anything important at the edges of the frame? Resizing can introduce artifacts and lose detail so I avoid it whenever possible.
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    Thanks jagabo, I'll try that in AVS.

    Sorry for the wrong expression. Yes, vertical resizing or 'Letterboxing' as manono calls it. He uses it too, apparently without artefacts occurring.
    Tests with the admittedly simple black & white Universal-leader look fine: just a narrow black bar at top and bottom.
    As mentioned before #211, I have lost some of the picture area already in johnmeyer's AviSynth script (for stabilization) and I would preferably leave the rest intact.
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  9. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    Yes, vertical resizing or 'Letterboxing' as manono calls it. He uses it too, apparently without artefacts occurring.
    Try resizing this vertically by 2 percent:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	hzlines.png
Views:	318
Size:	2.7 KB
ID:	32250

    Obviously, that's a special case but you often see thin near horizontal lines in real world video. Things like blinds in a window, skyscrapers in the background, etc. You end up with buzzing moire artifacts.
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  10. Some DVD players display it the other way - I remember this discussion a few years ago and there were some examples of both. So if you manipulate it, it will still long wrong on other setups. Either don't worry about it , or don't use DVD-video

    The only way to get it perfect everywhere is to use "square pixels", so there is no room for error or interpreting by different rules. You might do that by using a video file (playable on a computer or media box) , or blu-ray HD (maybe upscale to 720p and pillarbox) . SD BD still goes by non square pixels.
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    Thanks jagabo, that is a pretty convincing test!
    These effects did not show in the 'Universal leader' but now I also see serious blind-like artefacts in actual movie clips which I overlooked before.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    The only way to get it perfect everywhere is to use "square pixels".
    Thanks poisondeathray, but using square pixels introduces another problem: it affects DAR which changes e.g. from 1.33 to 1.25 i.e. the opposite of what I am trying to achieve.
    What do you mean by SD BD?
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  12. Originally Posted by minimax View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    The only way to get it perfect everywhere is to use "square pixels".
    Thanks poisondeathray, but using square pixels introduces another problem: it affects DAR which changes e.g. from 1.33 to 1.25 i.e. the opposite of what I am trying to achieve.
    No, he means you resize the video so that the frame dimensions match the DAR and encode with square pixels. For example, resize a 704x576 4:3 DAR video to 704x528. Of course, you can't do that for DVD or Blu-ray because of frame size restrictions.
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    Thanks jagabo,
    Obviously I still have lot to learn.. For the time being, and for me at least, DVD is the way to go so I'll try and live with its limitations.
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  14. You can do it with BD with padding (add black borders), but only at HD resolutions (the rules for SD BD only allow for "non square pixels")

    eg. an exact 4:3 image is scaled to 4:3 within a 16:9 box . For example 960x720 would be 4:3 within 1280x720 (160 px borders on left and right) . There is no ambiguity, because of square pixels, and only 1 set of interpretation rules unlike DVD (it will look the same on every setup). It's just another option to consider since it seems to bother you so much
    Last edited by poisondeathray; 21st Jun 2015 at 08:56.
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    You can do it with BD
    Sorry poisondeathray, stupid perhaps but I still do not know what the abbreviations 'BD' and 'SD' stand for..
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  16. BD = Blu-ray Disc
    SD = Standard Definition
    HD = High Definition

    Blu-ray supports standard definition video but with limitations on codec, frame size, etc.
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  17. Member
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    Thanks jagabo!
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    Another question, if I may.
    I am using VDub 1.10.4. 32 bit and trying to do a 2-pass XVID encoding.
    I consulted several tutorials and they all say I should see a checkbox: "add it to job control", after I click 'Save as AVI' for the first pass.
    After two hours of trying I am unable to find that checkbox. It simply is not there.
    Could anyone help me please? Thanks!
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  19. I think the job control functions have moved to File -> Queue Batch Operation...
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  20. Hi All !

    Love using VideoFreds script and thanks mate, but i want to be able to load jpegs into AVISynth and VirtualDub

    Have done some reading on it, have tried to adapt the script but just can't get them to load.

    Have played around with some off this script below, but no cigar so far... i see the OP hasn't being on the board for a while, but would be good to see how he did it.

    This script just by itself opens fine in VirtualDub and plays well

    film=ImageSource("%d.jpg", start=1)
    film=ConvertToYV12(film)
    return film


    But when i add the above script with the below script, it still loads and plays ok but just ignores all of VideoFreds script, i suspect that is the return film


    source= ImageSource(film).assumefps(play_speed).trim(trim_ begin,0)
    trimming= framecount(source)-trim_end
    source1= trim(source,0,trimming)


    Has anyone achieved this, or can anyone shed some light

    Cheers
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  21. Nothing will happen after the 'return film'. Remove that line. Your script might still not work, but at least it won't work because of the 'return film' line.
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    Hi guys,
    A few months now, I have been using johnmeyer's great script. It worked fine at least until August 30, when I used it last.
    Today I tried using it again, but all of a sudden I am getting this Error code 2:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Error 2.JPG
Views:	152
Size:	19.3 KB
ID:	33422

    The error description refers to line 108, which in John's script reads:
    source1= Avisource(film).killaudio().assumefps(play_speed). converttoYV12().

    Furthermore, all the other (similar) scripts which I used succesfully until August 31st now return exactly the same error message!

    Consequently, I suspected my Win7 computer and tried System Restore, but that does not work any longer. It appeared that an "Essential update" had been performed on August 30 and I got more suspicious. However, when I tried to unistall that update, I found that the very last update had been done on August 19th (KB 3087985), i.e. NOT on August 30.

    I'm at my wit's end. Who could help me getting this fantastic script working again?
    Many thanks in advance!
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  23. In what codec is the AVI? If you don't know use MediaInfo on it. Do you have that codec installed? For example, can you see it in VDub in Video->Compression? If everything is okay there, maybe reinstall it.
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    Thanks Manono,

    This is what Mediainfo says:

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : DV
    Commercial name : DVCPRO
    Codec ID : dvsd
    Codec ID/Hint : Sony

    In VDub it does not appear under exactly these names but I think Cedocida DVCPRO25 Codec v0.2.3 or Cedocida DVCPRO25 Codec v0.2.3 takes care of it.

    Moreover, I have worked with the same setup for months without any problem.
    Meanwhile I found that Premiere is running slow so I have run a fast MBAM scan but it did not find anything irregular. I am now running a more thorough scan..
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    A deep MBAM scan did not show any important threat. So I am back to square one:
    the johnmeyer script does not work anymore and shows the error mentioned in #232.
    Any help will be greatly appreciated!
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  26. Does a simple AviSource() script work? What about loading some other file with DirectShowSource() or ffVideoSource()?

    I think "error code 2" means no file with that filename was found. Check the full path and filename of your video file.
    Last edited by jagabo; 2nd Sep 2015 at 17:30.
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  27. I have a DV-AVI on the computer and the relevant part from MediaInfo says this:

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : DV
    Codec ID : dvsd
    Codec ID/Hint : Sony
    However, when looking what I have in VDub, I have 'Cedocida DV Codec (SD Format) v02.2' And I don't know if how it's configured has anything to do with whether or not the AVI can be viewed in VDub.

    And your script:

    source1= Avisource(film).killaudio().assumefps(play_speed). converttoYV12().

    I assume Source1 is used elsewhere in the script,and 'film' and 'play_speed' were defined earlier in the script? Maybe strip the script of everything but a basic 'AVISource("whatever the video is named.avi")' to see if it'll open. If it does it'll rule out not having the proper codec installed.

    Other than that I don't know and someone more knowledgeable might have to help. Sorry, not much help.
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    Re: #236
    Thanks jagabo. Meanwhile I did some simple scripts with Avisource, like this one:
    colorbars(720,480)
    KillAudio()
    BicubicResize(320,240)
    Trim(0,300)


    and this one, with one of my own avi's:
    Avisource("D:\Desktop\AVS tests\J 1978 deel 2-4.avi")
    Trim(0,300)

    They all run on Vdub AND, surprisingly, on Windows Media player but NOT on MPC-HC, which simply crashes each time I try to open any of these scripts !

    When I changed the latter to
    DirectShowSource("D:\Desktop\AVS tests\J 1978 deel 2-4.avi")
    Trim(0,300)
    I got the following error message:

    Name:  DSSfailure.JPG
Views: 191
Size:  18.2 KB


    I looked into C:\Windows\System32 and C:\Windows\SysWOW64 and in both directories DirectShowSource.dll is missing indeed.
    I seem to remember it has been there once but I'm not sure. Moreover, as you can see in that 'famous' line 108, the johnmeyer script is using Avisource.
    In case I do need the DirectShowSource.dll please let me know how to download and install it because the Sourceforge-site is driving me fairly crazy..

    I may not have been quite clear in #232, so allow me to elaborate a little.
    I have been using the johnmeyer-script successfully on some 20 different avi's. The only thing I changed every time was the title of the avi and each one of these scripts ran fine and resulted in near perfect movies, until August 31st.
    Luckily, I saved these already used scripts. However, when I try to open them in VDub now, they all return the error message mentioned in #232.

    I'm looking forward to any clue you may have!


    Re #237
    Thank you manono. What you find on your computer looks very similar to what I found.
    And yes, Source1 and the other things are mentioned elsewhere in the script and, again, please note that the script has been running perfectly and that I have not changed anything other than the avi title, as I did before on each of the avi's processed.
    Your efforts on my behalf are highly appreciated!
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  29. directshowsource.dll should be in avisynth's plugins folder. If that's missing maybe something else is too.

    And keep in mind. All components must be 32 bit, or all 64 bit. For example, you can't play 32 bit AviSynth scripts with a 64 bit media player.
    Last edited by jagabo; 4th Sep 2015 at 16:50.
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  30. Member
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    This is the AviSynth plugin folder on my PC:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	AVSplugins.JPG
Views:	114
Size:	41.2 KB
ID:	33494

    DirectShowSource.dll sits in the sub-folder HIDE. Somebody advised me to put it there in February this year. It has been there ever since and the johnmeyer script worked alright in this setup until August 31st. Should I put it back?
    As far as I know there is nothing else missing.
    Do you see anything irregular in that line 108?

    Yes, I know everything should be 32-bit, thank you.
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