Why use mpeg2?

[bruceleroy]

How much better is SVCD than VCD? I've been pretty happy with vcd/mpeg1 quality but if mpeg2 is better I might be willing to try it. I've heard there is only a slight viz difference and that its mainly better audio, which is not a big deal to me.

[pvdh]

How much better is SVCD than VCD?

To be honest I find that a well encoded VCD looks better compared to most SVCD encoded stuff I find on the internet. Sure the res is higher, but since most people try to encode their stuff to fit on a CD the quality suffers.

I guess when DVD burners become more popular one could do a decent SVCD encode and the quality would be a LOT better.

[SingSing]

To be honest I find that a well encoded VCD looks better compared to most SVCD encoded stuff I find on the internet.

The material you encoded must be lack of complexcity or movement,
like simple animated movie.

It is hard not to detect the different between mpeg1 and mpeg2 due
to the large different in bit rate ( and thus blockiness )

[bruceleroy]

PVDH,
if i'm aiming for using two CDR's will the quality be better?
The vcd's I make now use about 9-1.1 gigs, and take up two CDR's.
So I mine as well use up all the space on 2 CD's if its worth it.....

[phrosen]

I use DVD2SVCD and CCE and with the settings I have I get around an hour to hour 10 min a CD and it looks real good in my opinion. I use 1 pass vbr and min 1900 max 2400. I have audio down to 128 cuz i watch my movie on a reg tv, i dont have any surround or anything so i dont know why i would want like 224 or 192.. I also don't downsample my audio to 44.1. It takes like 7 hours from start to finish (start w/ vob files, end with 2 or 3 bin/cue files) to a 2 hour movie on my 650 p3 wit 320 meg ram

[Kdiddy]

Cosidering the compression algorithms are the same in oth mpeg1 & mpeg2, at equal bitrates & res, they in theory will look identical, they dont because of the differences in the types of encoders. Now SVCD (mpeg2) from a source res of >/= 352x480 and bitrate will of >/= 1.7 mbps will always look better than the VCD (mpeg1). Basically, if you DVD player can play SVCD, DVD rips & high bitrate captures from digital cams would be better on SVCD. VCR tape captures or downloading material from the net is usually best suited for VCD due to low bitrate/res of the source.

[Nelson37]

You must keep in mind that while VCD MUST be mpeg 1 and 352x240 and SVCD MUST be mpeg2 and 480x480, there is no requirement that mpeg1 be 352x240 and mpeg 2 be 480x480. I have made mpg1, 15,000 bitrate, 720x480 captures and mpg2, 1,400 bitrate, 352x240 captures.
Your question should not be is mpg2 better than mpg1 (they are basically the same, though mpg2 supports interlacing and some other features ((there is some debate whether mpeg1 is better at lower bitrates and mpg2 vice versa or if this is just a byproduct of various encoder optimizations))). Rather, the question should be is SVCD better than VCD?
The answer is that while this is NOT automatically true, SVCD is unquestionably capable of giving higher quality results when measured visually. If you have a VCD player, VCD is better for you cause you can't use SVCD.

[kwag]

If anyone wants to see a comparison, one MPEG-1 and the same clip in MPEG-2, go to the link below.

There's a small explanation on the subject.
It's the last 2 files in the site ( the ones on "The Mummy Returns" ).

kwag

[Nelson37]

KWAG - these clips look excellent. I'm not finding the two comparison clips, though, just one "Mummy".
I think I understand your use of CQ, and the GOP changes. Have you worked with CCE any? I find TMPGenc just too slow.

[kwag]

KWAG - these clips look excellent. I'm not finding the two comparison clips, though, just one "Mummy".
I think I understand your use of CQ, and the GOP changes. Have you worked with CCE any? I find TMPGenc just too slow.

I tried CCE. Just didn't cut it!. It doesn't do a very good job at those bit rates and resolutions.

You couldn't find the 2 clips? They are the last 2 mpeg samples.
Look for this in the site:

#1 "The Mummy Returns" Standard SVCD Template ( 15 Seconds 480x480 NTSC Standard SVCD )
#2 "The Mummy Returns" With NTSC Template below ( 15 Seconds 352x480 NTSC CQ=85 )


kwag

[Nelson37]

KWAG - this is what I see, I'm still curious about the mpg1 versus mpg2, although you've just about ruined my day as I had started with TMPGenc, changed to CCE, and now I think I gotta try TMPGenc again. I'm just wondering if applying your GOP changes to CCE 4-pass VBR would give similar results, guess I'm gonna have to try, and just when I had my procedures finally ironed out!
BTW, IMO CCE (more acronyms!) is substandard at MPG1, but 4-pass VBR MPG-2 was better and faster than TMPGenc, did you try CCE w/MPG1 or MPG2?

bilbogod's Farscape Sample ( 30 seconds 352x288 PAL )
Rules of Engagement ( 15 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
The Princess Diaries ( 26 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Hollow Man ( 30 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Anime Cowboy Bebop ( 39 seconds 352x480 NTSC )( Note: NTSC template, but CQ=80 )
Red Planet ( 58 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Geri's Game ( 29 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Bug's Life ( 30 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
The Mummy Returns ( 17 Seconds 352x480 NTSC ) - GOT THIS ONE!
HBO Satellite Capture ( 30 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
City Hall ( S-Video Capture via WinTV GO Board 1 Minute 352x480 NTSC )
Mixed Previews ( S-Video Capture via WinTV GO Board 33 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Patriot Games ( 29 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )

[Slade_Slater]

Try using DVD2SVCD with CCE and a 4 pass VBR. If you have a movie <=2 hrs it should turn out pretty nice (on 2 CDR's). Not quite so much block noise as there is using TMPGenc with a default template (you can prob. also get really good quality with other Temps like Sefy's or Kwag's). I use DVD2SVCD because it does all the work for me and I don't have to think too terribly much about it.

[kwag]

KWAG - this is what I see, I'm still curious about the mpg1 versus mpg2, although you've just about ruined my day as I had started with TMPGenc, changed to CCE, and now I think I gotta try TMPGenc again. I'm just wondering if applying your GOP changes to CCE 4-pass VBR would give similar results, guess I'm gonna have to try, and just when I had my procedures finally ironed out!
BTW, IMO CCE (more acronyms!) is substandard at MPG1, but 4-pass VBR MPG-2 was better and faster than TMPGenc, did you try CCE w/MPG1 or MPG2?

bilbogod's Farscape Sample ( 30 seconds 352x288 PAL )
Rules of Engagement ( 15 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
The Princess Diaries ( 26 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Hollow Man ( 30 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Anime Cowboy Bebop ( 39 seconds 352x480 NTSC )( Note: NTSC template, but CQ=80 )
Red Planet ( 58 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Geri's Game ( 29 seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Bug's Life ( 30 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
The Mummy Returns ( 17 Seconds 352x480 NTSC ) - GOT THIS ONE!
HBO Satellite Capture ( 30 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
City Hall ( S-Video Capture via WinTV GO Board 1 Minute 352x480 NTSC )
Mixed Previews ( S-Video Capture via WinTV GO Board 33 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )
Patriot Games ( 29 Seconds 352x480 NTSC )

Hi Nelson37:

If you try out CCE, please let me know your results. I don't think that the GOP structure changes can be applied to CCE. Not sure.

It's strange that you can't see the bottom of the web page!.

Here are the hard links for the files:

This is the standard SVCD sample #1:
http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/mumSvcd.mpg

This is the XVCD sample #2 with the template:
http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/mumXvcd.mpg

And here is the text description on the site:

The following 2 files were encoded for quality and size comparison. They are both 15 second scenes from "The Mummy Returns".
Both files produced with TMPGEnc version 2.53 Plus.
File #1 was encoded with the Standard NTSC SVCD template included with TMPGenc.
File #2 was encoded with the NTSC template available below. The only change to the template for this example was that the CQ level was increased from 70 to 85.
Conclusion:
The quality of both files is very similar, but on file #2 made with the template below, we achieved a higher compression and a much smaller file size. By increasing the default value of 70 to 85 in the template, we can still achieve way over an hour of video on a 80 minute CD-R.
Also, because file #2 is MPEG-1, we have higher compatibility with standard DVD players because the SVCD format is not available in all standalone DVD players.


kwag