Trouble making watchable VCD...newbie help!

[Jai]

Could someone please help me with this problem? I want to make a VCD with some DV footage that I did from my DV camcorder. I have used TMPEG to convert the .avi file to an .mpg then used Nero to burn it using the VCD template. The result is that my DVD player (both standalone and in my computer) will recognise and play the VCD but the picture is very bad, looking like digital scrambling. The sound also has pops and clicks. I am using PowerDVD to view this on my computer.

The .mpg file before burning played fine. I also tried different media types and even different burners but I get the same result each time. I have even tried copying the files onto my HD drive and playing them from there.

Have I got the procedure for making VCDs correct? Does anyone have any suggestions? Would you recommend using TMPEG or should I try LSX MPEG Encoder (I initially tried this, but can't get anything more than 2000 frames)? I would appreciate any comments or suggestions on this, as I have been searching everywhere for any suggestions to this and have almost given up hope of ever making a VCD. Thanks.

[KingJohn]

I have used TMPEG to convert the .avi file to an .mpg then used Nero to burn it using the VCD template.

Did you load a template in TMPGEnc ? sounds like you did not, so you made a non standard VCD which Nero went on to convert into a compliant mpeg, and when it does that it messes everything UP !

[kfoss]

I have been having similar problems. I have taken some old video that was captured and modified for recording on a SVHS VCR. All of the files were AVI movies. As a test, I used TMPEnc on WinXP to transfer these to VCD MPEGs. This worked. I transferred these VCD MPEG files to a Linux box with the CD burner, used VCDImager and then CDRDAO to burn the CD from the created CUE/BIN files. This works great...except that the original "cuts" in the video were made based on file size, not on the start of chapters.
Since this version, I have tried to reorganize the video by making VCD MPEGs based on each chapter or the complete video sequence. The problem is that when I burn the CD using the same VCD MPEG files to burned VCD process, I get the same digitial scrambling and pop/clicks as Jai mentionned.
I'm using the same TMPEnc(WinXP), VCD Imager (Linux) and CDRDAO (Linux) as before but get the bad results. Could there be an issue with the number of times the file is "translated" that could add this scrambling?

[KingJohn]

The number of times a move is converted should be one only, the more times its converted to something the more it will get worse.

Converting from AVI to VCD mpeg with TMPGEnc should only be done once, and it must be fully compliant, if its not then other software that make the VCD's will complain and re-encode the movie again, and most authoring software is pretty lousy at converting.

TMPGEnc has templates, when these are loaded they set up the output to be exactly right, this should then produce a move of good quality ready to be added to the VCD structure without change.

Making non standard VCD's can result in players not recognizing them, or worse you will end up with a coaster. People are changing the specifications in order to fit oversize movies onto one disk, considering the low price of blank cdr, I don't see the point.

[Jai]

Thankyou for replying! Sorry, I should have mentioned that I did used the VCD template in TMPEG. It didn't make any difference. I have also only converted the file to mpeg once. Would the original avi file be the source of the problem?

[QazzaQY2K]

Hmm.. this sounds kinda what i get some time.. it's when i burn a mpg as VCD to fast.. at to high speed.. even tho both CD-R and Burner can do it.. i'''m not sure Y it's like that.. it just is.. but it helps to burn it slower.. it all goes away.. so if u haven't tryed that.. burn it slower.. and c if that helps.. at least if it's nearly the same problem i had it should help..

well i hope this might help.. as i don't think it have any to do with the encoding..

[Jai]

I thought it might've been that too, but my burner can only burn at x2 fastest. I also tried x1. Has anyone had any luck with LSX?

Does the .avi have to be of certain specifications before you convert it to a mpg?

[KingJohn]

I sometimes burn at 40X when I have the disks, no problems at all.

The AVI has to be error free before you convert it, Use Vdub and scan for junk frames.

What is the AVI like, if it has artifacts, then dump it, they just get worse with conversion.

[Jai]

Sorry, I'm showing my ignorance here, but what is Vdub? My avi is in DV format and it plays beautifully. When you say artifacts, do you mean visible errors, like data loss? Thanks for your help!

[kfoss]

I have been trying to make some tests. I have found that I am not getting the scrambling and noise problems when I use CD-R instead of CD-RW. This is not because the player can't read the CD-RW as all drives I have tried them in are CD-RW read capable. I believe that the issue is that the CD-RWs are getting a little old and they aren't the greatest quality. Unfortunately, at the same time I have removed the menus from the TSCV project. I know that at least the clips that I have put together have been converted correctly and that if I get the same scrambling effect when I add the menus, then I'll be able to narrow down the problems.
Has anyone else had problems when playing a VCD CD-RW?
My next step after getting more CD-R's is to add the menus back in a try again. Boy I hate to waste a CD-R just to test a theory :-?

[Jai]

Thanks for the suggestion kfoss. I tried it, and interestingly enough, the scrambling is actually the worst I've managed to get yet. Just out of curiosity, what burner and media are you using?

[kfoss]

I'm using an HP 8000+ series (4x2x20) with CDRDAO on my Linux Box. All authoring is done on Win XP (Combination of Premiere 4.2, TMPGEnc, VCDEasy).
As for the media, which I'm pretty sure is the issue here, the CDR's I've used are 80min Fujifilm CDR. If you've been using CD-RW to not waste CDR's, then it'll be important to have a good quality disc. The original CD-RW that I used was by Pacific Digital and it caused the scrambling. Once I changed it for a Memorex Platinum, the problems went away...smooth sailing (and video!).

Kevin

[Nelson37]

Ditto on the media. I had this problem with el cheapo blue disks, burning slow would help, but still data loss and they seemed to deteriorate rapidly. Changing to Memorex blacks solved prob, burn at 8x, work great. Have since changed to Memorex silver and finally Apex gold, $12.95 for 50-pack, work great, no deterioration, no data loss, still burning at 8x. I am reasonably certain the speed of burn is only an issue with cheap disks, and even then not a complete solution.

[Jai]

Thanks for the tip. I've been using Ritek CDRWs and imation ones, only because my standalone can only play CDRW. I also did burn onto a CDR with a Mitsui disc. I have some TDKs which I will try though. Anyone had any luck with Princo? Because I think my standalone can also use these.

[Jai]

One other question...what is the procedure you use when capturing and editing? I'm using Adobe Premiere 6 to capture from my DV camera. The captured files are .avi then I'm using one of the preset project templates to edit from. I have been using the DV - Pal standard 48kHZ template, but should I be using the PAL Video for windows template instead? Does anyone use this program? Thanks :)