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  1. Member pchan's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    I still have 2 PC (AMD athlon and Intel P4) that are running fine but both are on XP. I use them to run legacy software and programming Arduino.
    What precautions should I take if I still connect to the internet ? Thanks in advance.
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    Best you move up to Vista or higher or disconnect from the internet.

    There is no alternative because Microsoft stopt supporting Windows XP
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    Make sure you have a firewall and some kind of up to date anti-virus. Please note that Microsoft is completely serious about NOT providing any more XP updates. As proof of this, they have announced and made it very clear that the current horrible IE bug (which is so bad that US government agencies are recommending that nobody use IE until it gets fixed) will NOT be fixed at all in XP. Don't click on suspicious links or go to risky web sites, like porn sites. You'll never be as well protected as you will with Win 7 or above so all you can do is hope that as serious problems keep getting found and not fixed in XP that you won't be a victim.
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  4. Member ranchhand's Avatar
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    If that is all you are using them for why connect to the internet at all? Disconnect and your problems are over. Use a different unit for web access. If that is not an option, then:
    >Get behind a router, and install Comodo firewall as well, which will catch any outgoing connections (if you get a keylogger or trojan);
    >Install Avira (free) antivirus.
    >For the love of Mike, get rid of Internet Explorer; it is a hacker magnet and so full of holes it should be called Swiss Cheese Explorer. Get Firefox. In firefox, install the (free) add-ons:
    *HTTPS Everywhere
    *Noscript
    *Self-Destructing Cookies
    *Use a local client E-mail program (Outlook, Outlook Express, etc.) and install Mailwasher to check your incoming emails on the server before importing them into your computer (for obvious reasons). The free version has annoying ads but it's better than going into battle blind.
    Surf only to trusted websites that you know, no others. Make that your religion. If you use Star Trek philosophy to "go where no man has gone before" there is nothing that will protect you, even modern OSs.
    For the ultimate security in a web browser, I suggest Aviator by Whitehat security. Link: https://www.whitehatsec.com/aviator/
    It takes some getting used to, but enable the above add-ons in it for additional security.
    That's about the best you are going to be able to do.
    Last edited by ranchhand; 1st May 2014 at 09:06.
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    The only negative point I would make about ranchhand's very good advice is that Firefox isn't what it used to be. We see this at work all the time - Firefox does not play well any more with certain other software programs and if you are one of those "lucky" people where you get into a situation where Firefox makes you click on popup windows before it will go on to websites (these popups are caused by Firefox itself and NOT the website you go to), you might as well go with Chrome. As a home user you are unlikely to have this happen to you, but it's not impossible depending on various software packages you might be running. These days when Firefox has certain issues, if they aren't horrible security holes but severely annoying, it just gets met with a shrug and they NEVER get fixed.
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  6. This is the best advice I've seen on the subject.

    The IE bug thing was kind of a prick move on MS' part; it affects IE6 and up, so it was there since XP was first released? For all this time we've apparently gone by without issue, then they come out and reveal it to everyone and say BTW XP users don't expect a fix, basically throwing the whole lot to the sharks!

    No matter, POSready 2009 is based on XP SP3 and support is good to 2019. There's a good chance that the updates can be repackaged in an XP update pack...
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  7. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I would definitely use a router with NAT to somewhat shield you from the internet.

    The majority of the later XP updates were concerned with internet/malware problems.
    The XP OS problems 'should' have been fixed long ago.
    Windows has never had a decent firewall or a antivirus. Don't depend on either.

    I would do three things to protect XP on the internet.

    1. Install a good antivirus. I used the free version of Avast.
    2. Install a good firewall. I used Comodo.
    3. Install a backup program. I still favor Acronis True Image.
    There are freeware ones out there also. But True Image is cheap enough.

    Back up your XP system to a separate storage drive or DVDs.

    I usually re-installed XP about four times a year. It seemed to get 'clogged' up
    and slow down and the re-install was easier than trying to figure out why.
    During the time I used XP, I visited many of the 'darker' parts of the internet
    with no problems at all.
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    IMHO this whole "XP is not supported by MS anymore" hysteria has the purpose to make you quit XP and switch to 8. The latest surveys I read show that a lot of people don't care about upgrading to higher versions so the best way to make them do it is scare them.
    Excuse me but if you didn't have an antivirus and firewall software since the beginning you started using a PC where have you been all that time? On Mars?
    And by the way who the f*** is using IE at all (if ever)! And who the f*** is using the built in MS "antivirus" and "firewall"? Are you out of your mind!
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    Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    IMHO this whole "XP is not supported by MS anymore" hysteria has the purpose to make you quit XP and switch to 8. The latest surveys I read show that a lot of people don't care about upgrading to higher versions so the best way to make them do it is scare them.
    Excuse me but if you didn't have an antivirus and firewall software since the beginning you started using a PC where have you been all that time? On Mars?
    And by the way who the f*** is using IE at all (if ever)! And who the f*** is using the built in MS "antivirus" and "firewall"? Are you out of your mind!
    It may not be wise, but lots of people still use IE regularly, or are forced to use it at times. I have visited a few websites in the past two years (some were associated with Microsoft) which had poor compatibility with Chrome and Firefox, so I was pretty much forced to use IE there. Some Microsoft services or utilities also dumped me into IE on occasion.

    Microsoft Security Essentials is a poor antivirus product today, but was actually OK for a couple of years. I used it myself for a while because neither Avast nor AVG got along well with one of my PCs. Avast even caused random reboots and BSODs, according to "WhoCrashed". Initially (when I started using it) MSE did as well as most other free security software in independent tests, until Microsoft decided to downgrade it to a baseline product. Too bad.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 1st May 2014 at 19:37. Reason: added clarification
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  10. Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    The IE bug thing was kind of a prick move on MS' part; it affects IE6 and up, so it was there since XP was first released? For all this time we've apparently gone by without issue, then they come out and reveal it to everyone and say BTW XP users don't expect a fix, basically throwing the whole lot to the sharks!

    Emergency patch for critical IE 0-day throws lifeline to XP laggards, too
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  11. Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    IMHO this whole "XP is not supported by MS anymore" hysteria has the purpose to make you quit XP and switch to 8. The latest surveys I read show that a lot of people don't care about upgrading to higher versions so the best way to make them do it is scare them.
    Agreed. This PC will very likely run XP till the day it dies. When I build a new one in a few months, I guess I'll have to decide which newer version of Windows I'm going to hate the least, but I'll still use this PC for surfing.

    Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    Excuse me but if you didn't have an antivirus and firewall software since the beginning you started using a PC where have you been all that time? On Mars?
    No antivirus here. No software firewall. I haven't run either for years.
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  12. Yeah just seen that, funny thing Win 8.1 is actually starting to show real market share growth. I'd say this gives credence to Gregg's comment. Besides it's hard to justify not patching it for XP, POSready 2009 is basically the same (with IE7) and the fault is not with the OS it's with IE. Maybe they were just afraid of seeing their browser's market share drop by 25% after all the remaining XP users switched to FF, Chrome... Or worse have all those users realize they don't have to use IE.
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    There are three not so long winded precautionary measures to take concerning any old os's.

    1: Master image of drive ... incase of serious infection, drive crash ... include a cd with all required currently used drivers.

    2: Get behind a router ... newer models include two firewalls.

    3: Install a removable drive enclosure and use a bootable linux + flash drive.

    With 3 your old xp is kept safe by removing it and connect online via linux, anything you need can be stored on the flash drive ... just scan the crap out of it before it goes anywhere near the older os.
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    No antivirus here. No software firewall. I haven't run either for years.
    Why?

    With 3 your old xp is kept safe by removing it and connect online via linux...
    Or just get a Raspberry PI and use it for browsing only.
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  15. DECEASED
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    To whom this may concern......

    Security Update for Internet Explorer (2965111)

    Published: May 1, 2014

    Version: 1.0
    https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/ms14-021

    Going straight-to-the-point:

    IE8-WindowsXP-KB2964358-x86-custom-ENU.exe @ http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=42588
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  16. Member pchan's Avatar
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    Salute to all.

    Thanks for all the tips.
    Much appreciated.
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  17. Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    No antivirus here. No software firewall. I haven't run either for years.
    Why?
    I've got an image of Windows and installed programs which I restore and update around once a year, then I make a new image. If I happened to pick up an infection I'd just restore the previous image instead of trying to clean up the mess. The last few times I've restored an image I've first installed antivirus software and run a full scan, but the scans haven't found anything, aside from a few naughty cookies. It's been about a year since I created the last image and I haven't run Windows Update since, so the "no updates after April" thing has a different perspective for me. Been there, done that.

    These days Windows is pretty secure. Even XP. Browsers are pretty secure (I don't use IE). To become infected you've almost got to want to be infected, or very, very, unlucky, and even if you happen to run antivirus software you've got to hope it can protect you from a potential infection. There's no guarantee there. I think in the last lot of Avtivirus tests I read, the Microsoft antivirus program was letting about 9% of the test viruses walk right past it. Admittedly the other free alternatives were all a fair bit better than that, but none are perfect.

    There's several PCs in this house. The ones the kids use have had viruses/malware etc cleaned of them more than once while running antivirus software.

    Most people are behind routers these days which are hardware firewalls due to the way they function. Admittedly they can't warn you when something is trying to access the internet as a software firewall can, but I can live without that.
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  18. Image your OS drive, as others have mentioned. Surely that's the best precaution.

    Anyway, I'm behind a router and only get on the net with a VM. Though I have Spywareblaster and occasionally run Malwarebytes and Superantispyware. Never find anything but tracking cookies. No software AV or firewall (apart from Windows firewall).
    Pull! Bang! Darn!
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    No antivirus here. No software firewall. I haven't run either for years.
    Why?
    I've got an image of Windows and installed programs which I restore and update around once a year, then I make a new image. If I happened to pick up an infection I'd just restore the previous image instead of trying to clean up the mess. The last few times I've restored an image I've first installed antivirus software and run a full scan, but the scans haven't found anything, aside from a few naughty cookies. It's been about a year since I created the last image and I haven't run Windows Update since, so the "no updates after April" thing has a different perspective for me. Been there, done that.

    These days Windows is pretty secure. Even XP. Browsers are pretty secure (I don't use IE). To become infected you've almost got to want to be infected, or very, very, unlucky, and even if you happen to run antivirus software you've got to hope it can protect you from a potential infection. There's no guarantee there. I think in the last lot of Avtivirus tests I read, the Microsoft antivirus program was letting about 9% of the test viruses walk right past it. Admittedly the other free alternatives were all a fair bit better than that, but none are perfect.

    There's several PCs in this house. The ones the kids use have had viruses/malware etc cleaned of them more than once while running antivirus software.

    Most people are behind routers these days which are hardware firewalls due to the way they function. Admittedly they can't warn you when something is trying to access the internet as a software firewall can, but I can live without that.
    Don't mean to be rude, but not protecting against viruses is rather self serving. At best, not blocking ad/malware promotes the development of more malicious programs (i.e. It's like opting out of Spam emails, once they know you're there it's an open pathway to more of the same since they know it works). At worst, you could be infected with a worm that turns your machine into a bot spreading the program to others.

    To be fair, even hardware / software firewalls just encourage the "bad guys" to move on to the next unprotected machine, so the battle can never be won, just fought on the front lines.
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  20. I'll confess I don't follow. How does not blocking ad/malware with software promote the development of more malicious programs if I'm not getting infected anyway? The "spam email" analogy doesn't work for me. I'm not sending notifications to ad/malware developers informing them I don't run antivirus software.

    Windows and browsers are pretty secure these days, although using the same logic I could argue that by running anti-malware software you're encouraging software makers to be less diligent about ensuring their products are secure.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    I'll confess I don't follow. How does not blocking ad/malware with software promote the development of more malicious programs if I'm not getting infected anyway? The "spam email" analogy doesn't work for me. I'm not sending notifications to ad/malware developers informing them I don't run antivirus software.
    Actually you are sending notifications to the ad/malware developers that you're either not running antivirus software or your software isn't working correctly. Most ad/malware "phone home" and opens the door for other ad/malware. This is why I used the email analogy, only you don't have to press a button to "opt out", the programs do it automatically if you don't delete them immediately. In addition, this encourages other developers to continue to develop more ad/malware and potentially viruses.

    Windows and browsers are pretty secure these days, although using the same logic I could argue that by running anti-malware software you're encouraging software makers to be less diligent about ensuring their products are secure.
    This is the sad reality of the endless battle between malware / virus developers and anti-malware / anti-virus developers. There has always been and always will be security holes in any OS / software. There comes a point where "good enough" has to accepted and hopefully either the original or third-party developer will patch the hole quickly.

    And of course there's the dark conspiracy theory that the anti-mailware / anti-virus developers are also the ones who are creating the bad stuff!

    A bit off-topic, but somewhat related. Shortly after my first post on this topic, I checked my email and found an unauthorized charge on one of my credit cards (thankfully, I have an "anti-virus", email alerts any time a charge is made on that card). I've made hundreds of online purchases with this card, but somehow, somewhere my info got out. Needless to say, I've already reported the charge and I'm getting a new card.
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  22. DECEASED
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    Some people are able to live without anti-virus bloatware, and some people simply can't.

    End-of-discussion I.M.H.O.
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  23. Just a word of caution, being behind a router does nothing to protect from drive-by downloads; example how many PC's got infected by google chrome after installing adobe flash. Luckily chrome is not malicious software, but many of those download sites that require you to use their download manager or those programs that add toolbars are not as safe.

    Even antivirus' aren't foolproof, there's malware that can disable them with no warning. And then there's security flaws in software like the heartbleed bug or this new one that could open a login box on some site and send the info to a different site. This also means that a VM has no 100% guarantee that malware won't jump through it (Bogdan says it best, I won't even try to paraphrase him).

    All these technological tools just lull the user in a false sense of security. Nothing beats the security of not clicking on that flashing banner saying your PC might be infected or that popup offering to speedup your PC. You see an add for something google it instead of clicking the add (you can click the adds here though!).

    In the end security begins with the user, you need to go to some of those less than savory sites, then fully expect to get infected and image your OS on DVD or use a Linux live disc.
    Last edited by nic2k4; 3rd May 2014 at 16:47. Reason: Clarification
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  24. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    I haven't checked every post but what about running xp in a vm window?
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  25. Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    I'll confess I don't follow. How does not blocking ad/malware with software promote the development of more malicious programs if I'm not getting infected anyway? The "spam email" analogy doesn't work for me. I'm not sending notifications to ad/malware developers informing them I don't run antivirus software.
    Actually you are sending notifications to the ad/malware developers that you're either not running antivirus software or your software isn't working correctly. Most ad/malware "phone home" and opens the door for other ad/malware. This is why I used the email analogy, only you don't have to press a button to "opt out", the programs do it automatically if you don't delete them immediately. In addition, this encourages other developers to continue to develop more ad/malware and potentially viruses.
    All of which can only happen if I actually become infected with malware, which to date I haven't.
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  26. DECEASED
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    FWIW:

    Antivirus "is dead," says Brian Dye, Symantec's senior vice president for information security.
    "We don't think of antivirus as a moneymaker in any way."
    http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303417104579542140235850578-l...MDAwNTEwNDUyWj
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    Originally Posted by yoda313 View Post
    I haven't checked every post but what about running xp in a vm window?
    IMO, it's way too slow. Same for any other OS running in a virtual machine.

    I have XP-SP3 on multiple Back-up DVDs and I have a copy on a storage drive on my PC and also on a drive that is not connected to my PC. I try to keep the back-up on my PC as up to date as possible so If I do get infected (or Windows just stops running correctly) then I can restore the PC to a working state without having to re-install all of my drivers and software which in my case could take days.

    I have not had an update from MS since downloading SP3 when it came out years ago so there is no need to panic because MS doesn't support it anymore. I am using Windows 7 now for supposed speed improvements with more memory but so far I'm not impressed so the option of going back to XP is there if I decide to drop Windows 7. There used to be a website that offered copies of XP with updates by year to get any updates you wanted without ever having to use MS updates which is the biggest computer virus you can have.

    I kinda see hello-hello's idea of not using an anti-virus since it slows everything down by constantly scanning your PC. The biggest slowdown though is caused by your browser. Firefox is known to be a resource hog and Chrome shows 15 or 20 instances running at one time in Task Manager with one window opened so it is tempting to go back to IE6 except that most sites don't support it anymore. IMO, IE6 is as secure as any other browser if you turn off scripting and cookies. I'm using both Firefox (with scripting and cookies turned off) for the dark websites mentioned above and Chrome for normal browsing since I need it for both of my email addresses and for youtube and facebook.

    If I could find the PS for my router then I would hook it back up and drop ZoneAlarm since the router always worked well for a firewall and didn't slow my PC down to a crawl like Avast and ZA does. ZA is a lot better though than Comodo was. IMO, the free version of Comodo is a computer virus itself. Seems like a lot of free programs today are loaded with adware and malware.
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  28. Yoda313, the post from Bogdan was the only worthwhile one in that thread. A "hacker" would have to be hellbent on 0wning a specific target to go through the trouble of coding a malware capable of dealing with a VM; as with stuxnet this would be an expensive undertaking, more a game for big league players like governments.

    I've setup XP in a VM for a pr0n freak, he kept getting virii from some of the sites he liked to visit. I figured this would be easier for him to handle than restoring his drive from a ghost image. For a VM to run smoothly, it needs a PC with a quad core CPU and lots of RAM, he's got a Core2 Quad with 12 GB and runs Virtualbox under Vista.

    Originally Posted by DarrellS View Post
    ... slow my PC down to a crawl like Avast and ZA does.
    Avast can be like that, I don't know of many modern software that optimizes for older hardware, but luckily Avast can be customized to reduce the system load. I have it running on a PIII-1000 and it's still usable. The trick is to not load all the shields. I can't remember which ones to omit (not my PC and I'm nowhere near it), but off the top of my head if you only look at emails through a browser (gmail, hotmail...) there's no need for the email shield. The cloud thing can be turned off too and you really don't want to load the software updater, ever. You can disable file scanning on access, but you have to vet every new file that comes into that PC, Virus total is good for that.

    OTH, out of the box Kaspersky internet suite runs with little slowing down of a PC. For under powered machine there are many options to improve performance. I have it on an AthlonXP 1800 PC and the only hold up is when trying to eject a flash drive loaded with files with an explorer window opened.
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