MS gives up!

[Frank-0-Video]

Greetings ....

I wonder if there are folks with a viewpoint like mine. Allow me to explain .....

There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 and 8 in-so-far-as internal improvements which allow these OS's to run the latest hardware and software. However, I feel that Microsoft's decision not to include built-in options that would allow users full control over the Graphical User Interface set-up, including ones that allow operation under the XP GUI-Format which so many folks are familiar with (and -WITHOUT- the need for XP mode in a virtual machine) , plus other "fallback" options, is what has really generated so much irritation and frustration among computer users.

The same viewpoint also applies to the successors of Office 2003 products and certain other applications as well.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

[usually_quiet]

Greetings ....

I wonder if there are folks with a viewpoint like mine. Allow me to explain .....

There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 and 8 in-so-far-as internal improvements which allow these OS's to run the latest hardware and software. However, I feel that Microsoft's decision not to include built-in options that would allow users full control over the Graphical User Interface set-up, including ones that allow operation under the XP GUI-Format which so many folks are familiar with (and -WITHOUT- the need for XP mode in a virtual machine) , plus other "fallback" options, is what has really generated so much irritation and frustration among computer users.

The same viewpoint also applies to the successors of Office 2003 products and certain other applications as well.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

Where would this end? What if some people would have liked to have had the option for the Windows XP GUI to be configurable to look like Windows 95 or would prefer Windows 7's GUI to be configurable to look like Windows Vista?

In another thread, you said you are moving to Linux, which has substantial learning curve for Windows users, but you are willing to do it, with no guarantee that the GUI for whichever Linux distro you pick won't change some day, or that the development team maintaining it won't loose interest and discontinue their project so you will have to migrate to a new Linux distro. There has to be more to this story than the comparatively minor changes between XP and Windows 7.

[enim]

In my previous post I said as under:

It means that Microsoft will also bury Windows 8 (8.1) soon... as an unsuccessful OS...

And Here it comes true...
Windows failed to install the following update with error 0×80070003: Update for Windows (KB2919355)

MS is lucky that I am not a Windows user and I did not buy/pay for Win8 or Win8.1, other wise I might be suing Ms for big bucks!
Seems like MS is going out of OS business sooner or later...

[El Heggunte]

In my previous post I said as under:

It means that Microsoft will also bury Windows 8 (8.1) soon... as an unsuccessful OS...

And Here it comes true...
Windows failed to install the following update with error 0×80070003: Update for Windows (KB2919355)

MS is lucky that I am not a Windows user and I did not buy/pay for Win8 or Win8.1, other wise I might be suing Ms for big bucks!
Seems like MS is going out of OS business sooner or later...

VERY-interesting, that article shows that the idiots who misdesigned Windows 8 are not much different from the idiots who misdesigned Office 97 (namely, the installer looked for the installed fonts NOT in the Registry, but in %WinDir%\Fonts).

How disgusting -.-

P.S.:

This article applies to a different version of Windows than the one you are using. Content in this article may not be relevant to you.

_|_

[enim]

VERY-interesting, that article shows that the idiots who misdesigned Windows 8 are not much different from the idiots who misdesigned Office 97 (namely, the installer looked for the installed fonts NOT in the Registry, but in %WinDir%\Fonts).

How disgusting -.-

P.S.:

Crackpots - idiots are every where when it comes to computer and programming. They (GuRus) talks about millions even though they do do not know zero. But, at least blunders are not really expected from high profiled idiots in a Multi Billion Companies like MS. I hope, at-least they should have tested thoroughly before floating any updates. According to the link I posted as above states that while updates it hangs infinitely.

Windows8/8.1 users must be asking MS to get paid for using Win8/8.1 rather paying for license as they are at mercy of MS.

How disgusting -.-

These, so Called GuRus@MS completely coughed-up Windows8/Windows8.1. MS needs total re-engineering and a fresh new start.
Anyway it is MS history trail with one successful mile stone after broken-n-cracked one. Bill and Satya's team must be having a rough broken rides on rocky-bumpy road ahead. It gonna take too long...

[Cornucopia]

Greetings ....

I wonder if there are folks with a viewpoint like mine. Allow me to explain .....

There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 and 8 in-so-far-as internal improvements which allow these OS's to run the latest hardware and software. However, I feel that Microsoft's decision not to include built-in options that would allow users full control over the Graphical User Interface set-up, including ones that allow operation under the XP GUI-Format which so many folks are familiar with (and -WITHOUT- the need for XP mode in a virtual machine) , plus other "fallback" options, is what has really generated so much irritation and frustration among computer users.

The same viewpoint also applies to the successors of Office 2003 products and certain other applications as well.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

Where would this end? What if some people would have liked to have had the option for the Windows XP GUI to be configurable to look like Windows 95 or would prefer Windows 7's GUI to be configurable to look like Windows Vista?

In another thread, you said you are moving to Linux, which has substantial learning curve for Windows users, but you are willing to do it, with no guarantee that the GUI for whichever Linux distro you pick won't change some day, or that the development team maintaining it won't loose interest and discontinue their project so you will have to migrate to a new Linux distro. There has to be more to this story than the comparatively minor changes between XP and Windows 7.

@usually_quiet, maybe you didn't know this, but XP was TOTALLY configurable to look just like Win95/98. See: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Windows-XP-Look-Like-Windows-98
And Win7 was barely different from Vista.

Why is that so bad to allow control to users? I truly doubt if the option for "familiar" looks & links would have broken the new programming model/paradigm. Power to the People!

Scott

[usually_quiet]

Greetings ....

I wonder if there are folks with a viewpoint like mine. Allow me to explain .....

There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 and 8 in-so-far-as internal improvements which allow these OS's to run the latest hardware and software. However, I feel that Microsoft's decision not to include built-in options that would allow users full control over the Graphical User Interface set-up, including ones that allow operation under the XP GUI-Format which so many folks are familiar with (and -WITHOUT- the need for XP mode in a virtual machine) , plus other "fallback" options, is what has really generated so much irritation and frustration among computer users.

The same viewpoint also applies to the successors of Office 2003 products and certain other applications as well.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

Where would this end? What if some people would have liked to have had the option for the Windows XP GUI to be configurable to look like Windows 95 or would prefer Windows 7's GUI to be configurable to look like Windows Vista?

In another thread, you said you are moving to Linux, which has substantial learning curve for Windows users, but you are willing to do it, with no guarantee that the GUI for whichever Linux distro you pick won't change some day, or that the development team maintaining it won't loose interest and discontinue their project so you will have to migrate to a new Linux distro. There has to be more to this story than the comparatively minor changes between XP and Windows 7.

@usually_quiet, maybe you didn't know this, but XP was TOTALLY configurable to look just like Win95/98. See: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Windows-XP-Look-Like-Windows-98
And Win7 was barely different from Vista.

Why is that so bad to allow control to users? I truly doubt if the option for "familiar" looks & links would have broken the new programming model/paradigm. Power to the People!

Scott

There is a Windows Classic theme available in Window 7's Appearance and Personalization too, although its not a perfect makeover. Nobody would look at the screen and confuse it with Windows XP. To get something better than that, it is true that someone would need to invest in a skinning programs like Window Blinds, or find a better theme online. http://satukoro.deviantart.com/art/Luna-port-to-Windows-7-Aero-136960235

However I don't think that is what is troubling Frank-0-Video. To fully replicate the functionality of the old Windows XP GUI would be difficult. The cosmetic appearance of the UI is only a part of what changed, and not the thing that most people have trouble adapting to. OS features, utilities, and accessory programs are sometimes added, removed or substantially changed, and the means of accessing some things can be different too. (Windows 7's "Paint", for example, is very different from previous versions of Paint, and some people don't like it. )

Those changes are much harder to adapt to than the cosmetic changes, and probably what Frank-0-Video would have more problems with. It is possible to modify the functionality of the Start Menu and a few other things with Classic Shell, or something like it, but going beyond that would be hard to do.

I decided to create an account for my sister to use on my Windows 7 PC using the Luna theme from devianart, plus Classic Shell with a Luna theme. (She just switched from XP to 8.1. I hope she is amused.) It illustrates that changing the appearance of Windows 7 to be more like the appearance of Windows XP doesn't really do all that much.

[Frank-0-Video]

Greetings ....

However I don't think that is what is troubling Frank-0-Video. To fully replicate the functionality of the old Windows XP GUI would be difficult. The cosmetic appearance of the UI is only a part of what changed, and not the thing that most people have trouble adapting to. OS features, utilities, and accessory programs are sometimes added, removed or substantially changed, and the means of accessing some things can be different too. (Windows 7's "Paint", for example, is very different from previous versions of Paint, and some people don't like it. )

On "Paint" (and "Wordpad" as well, although I now use a 3rd party word processor), the Win-7 GUI interface is a nightmare to figure out. What was wrong with the GUI interface for XP's "Paint" and "Wordpad" that it couldn't be retained in WIN-7 ?? A few here and there tweakings and feature additions using the XP interface would have been just fine. BTW -- I have found some 3rd party software that allows use of the XP Paint program in Windows-7 -WITHOUT- having to go to XP mode.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

[redwudz]

At least they left NotePad alone. I use that a lot. Hardly ever used WordPad.

If you don't like W7/W8''s version of Paint, you can change it. Paint is a .exe file. Just go into XP and make a copy of Paint XP, then replace W7 paint with it. It may not automatically link in your context menus, but I like it a lot better than the newer Paint versions. If you don't want to replace W7/W8 paint, just make a shortcut to the old paint and leave it in a downloads folder.

XP Paint.exe running in Windows 8.1

[hello_hello]

At least they left NotePad alone. I use that a lot. Hardly ever used WordPad.

A little off topic, but have you tried Metapad? It's a lot like Notepad, but with some extra features to make it a little more usable.

[jagabo]

What was wrong with the GUI interface for XP's "Paint" and "Wordpad" that it couldn't be retained in WIN-7 ??

If they didn't change things around everyone would complain it's the same as XP so there's no need to upgrade. They want you to think ribbons are so much better than toolbars and menus that you need to upgrade. And they enforce that by making the new programs save in updated formats that can't be opened by the older versions of the program. So if you work with anyone else that upgrades you have to upgrade too.

[usually_quiet]

What was wrong with the GUI interface for XP's "Paint" and "Wordpad" that it couldn't be retained in WIN-7 ??

If they didn't change things around everyone would complain it's the same as XP so there's no need to upgrade. They want you to think ribbons are so much better than toolbars and menus that you need to upgrade. And they enforce that by making the new programs save in updated formats that can't be opened by the older versions of the program. So if you work with anyone else that upgrades you have to upgrade too.

I haven't used Office in a while, but if MS added new document features to Word that the previous version lacked (and they usually did), an updated file format was necessary to be able to save documents using the new features. Maybe customers would prefer getting a free upgrade to every new Office version released, but that isn't the way paid software generally works. Those who want the opportunity to decide for themselves what they will pay for software or who want free upgrades forever had better stick to using freeware.

As far a Windows 7 goes, you get used to the changes in the OS itself, and if the new version of an old Windows 7 accessory program doesn't suit you, you install a different program that you like better.

[jagabo]

if MS added new document features to Word that the previous version lacked (and they usually did), an updated file format was necessary

Yes, that accounts for maybe 10 percent of the changes.

[PuzZLeR]

If they didn't change things around everyone would complain it's the same as XP so there's no need to upgrade. They want you to think ribbons are so much better than toolbars and menus that you need to upgrade. And they enforce that by making the new programs save in updated formats that can't be opened by the older versions of the program. So if you work with anyone else that upgrades you have to upgrade too.

A quintessential example of planned obsolescence that solves a problem nobody has.

But, like sheep they follow - the mass consumer is once more conditioned, which further justifies the "need to upgrade" as per a change of "standards".

if MS added new document features to Word that the previous version lacked (and they usually did), an updated file format was necessary

Yes, that accounts for maybe 10 percent of the changes.

I still use Office 2000. I spent a bit of money on it then while I was a student, and don't plan to ditch it any time soon for any "new features" that I DON'T need. It works just as well today, and all documents are fully compatible in new systems regardless.

No, I'm not "old" and incapable of adapting, or even trying to be a "rebel". I simply don't want to switch from something that works just as well just because some entity wants to sedate me into buying their latest wares.

I have no use for 365 or any of this cloud nonsense.

[usually_quiet]

if MS added new document features to Word that the previous version lacked (and they usually did), an updated file format was necessary

Yes, that accounts for maybe 10 percent of the changes.

Of course there are alternatives to Office, if using Office is not a necessity, and it is only when using the latest and greatest version of Office is a requirement for continued employment that the phrase "adapt or die" applies.

Sometimes it is possible for home users to avoid buying a newer version of Office and learning a new UI for Office. If someone only needs to look at Office files sent to them by others, and doesn't need to import them into Office, it is possible to get free viewers from Microsoft for at least some parts of Office, and keep using whatever older version of Office one has, for as long as Microsoft supports it (assuming the product needs security patches) and the OS supports it. Office includes backwards compatibility for at least a few older file versions, so most people with newer versions of Office can work with or read files created by some older versions of Office.

[Edit]As far as the ribbon interface goes, Microsoft believes that its easier for new users to learn and more efficient than the traditional menu system. IMO, they should have done more user studies and surveys before using it everywhere. I don't agree that is necessarily better for every program that they have modified to use it. For example, using a Ribbon interface for File Explorer in Windows 8.x makes little sense.

[Frank-0-Video]

Greetings ...

If you don't like W7/W8''s version of Paint, you can change it. Paint is a .exe file. Just go into XP and make a copy of Paint XP, then replace W7 paint with it. It may not automatically link in your context menus, but I like it a lot better than the newer Paint versions. If you don't want to replace W7/W8 paint, just make a shortcut to the old paint and leave it in a downloads folder.

If I may ask -- The first time you did that, did Microsoft's User Account Control flag come up?

In my case I just made an "XP-Paint" folder, placed XP's paint.exe in it, then installed "UAC Trust Shortcut" to make it run in the Win-7 environment.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

[El Heggunte]

......
In my case I just made an "XP-Paint" folder, placed XP's paint.exe in it, then installed "UAC Trust Shortcut" to make it run in the Win-7 environment.

Why not simply disable UAC

[jagabo]

and it is only when using the latest and greatest version of Office is a requirement for continued employment that the phrase "adapt or die" applies.

That applies to most businesses. And is more or less what I already said.

Sometimes it is possible for home users to avoid buying a newer version of Office

Like PuzZLeR, I used an old version of office for years. Eventually, on new computers I switched to Open/Libre Office.

As far as the ribbon interface goes, Microsoft believes that its easier for new users to learn

Aside from 5 year old kids there are no new users of Office.

[usually_quiet]

As far as the ribbon interface goes, Microsoft believes that its easier for new users to learn

Aside from 5 year old kids there are no new users of Office.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, since five-year old kids are pre-literate for the most part. College kids and high school students are new Office users, and they can adapt to a new UI much quicker than old farts like the bulk of VideoHelp's membership.

[El Heggunte]

^ FWIW --- many/MOST «College kids and high school students» are incredibly immature, ignorant, arrogant and annoying

Things were not that bad during the 70s, granted

[Frank-0-Video]

Greetings ....

Why not simply disable UAC

If it can be done for each individual program where you don't want interference from MS-UAC, that would be fine. But in my case, XP-PAINT is the only app currently needing this kind of special treatment. I'm happy with at least that!

Nuff Ced and Thanx-A-Lot,
Frank-0-Video

[PuzZLeR]

I'm happy with things as they are.

I'm not.

[redwudz]

Greetings ...

If you don't like W7/W8''s version of Paint, you can change it. Paint is a .exe file. Just go into XP and make a copy of Paint XP, then replace W7 paint with it. It may not automatically link in your context menus, but I like it a lot better than the newer Paint versions. If you don't want to replace W7/W8 paint, just make a shortcut to the old paint and leave it in a downloads folder.

If I may ask -- The first time you did that, did Microsoft's User Account Control flag come up?

In my case I just made an "XP-Paint" folder, placed XP's paint.exe in it, then installed "UAC Trust Shortcut" to make it run in the Win-7 environment.

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

I was mistaken. I didn't replace W8 Paint in the System32 folder. I think I did that with the W7 OS. For W8.1, I just added a shortcut to Paint XP in the Start8 menu. I didn't have to turn off UAC, but I do that anyway as it blocks some other programs I use. I left W8.1 Paint in place. I might be able to replace it in the System32 folder by using a 'Take ownership' program. I think that's how I did it with W7.

And I still use an old version of Office XP Pro. I don't need a newer version of Office.

[Frank-0-Video]

Greetings ...

Well, a great thing has happened! I've now upgraded to Win-7 Pro 64 and XP Paint works in that environment --WITHOUT-- invoking a 3rd party workaround or having to go to XP mode. Hooray!

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video.

[PowerFalcon]

I don't know what people didn't like about Windows 8. I'm using it daily and within the first :30 minutes of using it of it's official launch date, I understood what charms were, I could toggle between the desktop and the tiles, I will admit I bought Start8 a day after buying Windows8. I've been in best buy and had people watch me navigate around Windows8, I should have asked for a Tech Job at Best Buy, cause they are hiring the wrong people, my golden moment will come

[fritzi93]

^ FWIW --- many/MOST «College kids and high school students» are incredibly immature, ignorant, arrogant and annoying

Things were not that bad during the 70s, granted

Oh, I dunno. I remember the '70s.

[El Heggunte]

^ FWIW --- many/MOST «College kids and high school students» are incredibly immature, ignorant, arrogant and annoying

Things were not that bad during the 70s, granted

Oh, I dunno. I remember the '70s.

My memory is better than yours, granted.

[jman98]

I don't know what people didn't like about Windows 8. I'm using it daily and within the first :30 minutes of using it of it's official launch date, I understood what charms were, I could toggle between the desktop and the tiles, I will admit I bought Start8 a day after buying Windows8. I've been in best buy and had people watch me navigate around Windows8, I should have asked for a Tech Job at Best Buy, cause they are hiring the wrong people, my golden moment will come

I'm curious because I worked very briefly on someone's Win 8 laptop about a year and a half ago and I thought Win 8 was the biggest POS Microsoft has ever put out. I have quite a few specific complaints about things in it that make no sense at all, but that would take this thread off course. So I have questions for you.

1) Prior to using Win 8, did you have extensive tablet experience? Don't care whether it was Apple, Android, or something else. Did you have a good amount of tablet experience before getting Win 8?
2) How on earth did you figure out how to toggle between the desktop and tiles? Did you stumble into it by blind luck? Did you know what to do before you bought Win 8 (maybe you read about it somewhere)? Did you just figure it out?

My personal belief is that Win 8 is marriage from hell of the worst features of tablets and Windows itself in one inconvenient OS, but if you are OK with it, that's good for you.

[usually_quiet]

I don't know how PowerFalcon figured out how to use Windows 8, but I looked online for help to get started with it. Unfortunately Microsoft didn't supply any on-screen hints on how to use the hot corners until Windows 8.1 was released.

[PowerFalcon]

1) Prior to using Win 8, did you have extensive tablet experience? Don't care whether it was Apple, Android, or something else. Did you have a good amount of tablet experience before getting Win 8?

I didn't have any tablet experience, before using Windows8. When I installed Windows8 the official day it was launched, I strictly navigated around the U.I for a few minutes and without any understanding of how Microsoft laid out Windows8 I thought where and why things would be positioned and after those few minutes I began to understand Windows8, then I expanded on that knowledge.

There was a little reading before the official release date, which gave me clues as to what existed, unless I did remember subconsciously what I had read months earlier, one or the other

Windows8 can be a little sensitive not by much. Working in Windows8 is identical to working in Windows7 for me and I'm sure others. The on-screen hints in Windows 8.1 which I'm using now, are not bold, I mostly ignore them, or don't notice, one or the other. On screen hints are helpful as I'm not 21 anymore but there literally in every program, some programs use "dummy hints" others use "hints" I prefer the "hints" the "dummy hints" those programs why read the manual.