Aver H727

[TheThrillness]

Nevermind.

Originally this thread was about trying to fix some really bad composite capture issues (see thumbnail) but I and other people just came to the realization that AVerMedia is awful and don't care about capture quality.

[Kadano]

But I do mind!

I also have the Avermedia H727 and the same color problems. It’s ridiculous that they put this thing on the market with such terrible colors.

Here is a comparison of a Gamecube 480p60 YPbPr sample:
H727:

Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle:


Did you find a solution to this problem? I contacted Avermedia technical support but the person who replied doesn’t seem to know anything and only recommends RMA.

[Brad]

The original poster was asking about a specific issue with composite (or S-Video?) capture, not a general issue with component.

My YPbPr captures with the C027 looked similar. I think that Blackmagic device is just simply better in this regard.

[Kadano]

The original poster was asking about a specific issue with composite (or S-Video?) capture, not a general issue with component.

My YPbPr captures with the C027 looked similar. I think that Blackmagic device is just simply better in this regard.

Thank you very much. The C027/H727 uses the same faulty chipset for all analog signals, so CVBS, S-Video and YPbPr all have this problem.
I just did many tests to make sure that it’s the H727 and not my setup interfering that’s causing the bad colors. You (and two other people earlier) confirming this has convinced me to go full way this time and buy the Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1. They seem like a company who really care about providing a quality product to the customer, and I don’t want to give others like Avermedia who don’t have this mindset any more money. So I won’t regret spending ~300€ for the Micomsoft card.

This might read like advertising, lol. I just want to share my thoughts on this for others who are also interested in very high quality Melee recording.

The best quality you can output Melee video is RGBHV through a modified DAC cable (with Macronix chip inside) with a VGA / DSUB plug. The XCAPTURE-1 is the only card I know of that’s capable of capturing and passing through RGBHV. My final setup will probably consist of:

Gamecube (Qoob Pro inside so I can play PAL games in 480p60) → Nintendo digital cable (VGA mod) → XCAPTURE-1 → VGA pass-through → CRT PC monitor (Sony GDM-F520, maybe). Audio will go to my speakers and to my sound card line in.

[jagabo]

No video proc amp controls? Maybe a North American analog NTSC 7.5 IRE "setup" issue? Japanese NTSC has the black level at 0 IRE. You can usually work around this with the proc amp controls.

[TheThrillness]

Hi Kadano. I pretty much gave up with AverMedia delivering anything good.

I should also note that in mid 2013 AVerMedia changed the PCB to Version. E and guess what? It is somehow WORSE than what you posted over Component.

Here are the old PCB and then the new PCB screenshots (top is old H727). The new PCB is distinguished by not having capacitors on the PCB. It's not just a darkness issue either, the new PCB has this really bad color bleeding or something (check around the girl's avatar where some green magically appears). Note that the green is not present on any of the other like 5 capture cards I have.

The sooner everyone recognizes Micomsoft as the gods of the capture world, the sooner AVerMedia can die.

[Kadano]

No video proc amp controls? Maybe a North American analog NTSC 7.5 IRE "setup" issue? Japanese NTSC has the black level at 0 IRE. You can usually work around this with the proc amp controls.

Unfortunately, the driver offers no such controls. I separated the color layers of the sample image above and found that they aren’t only shifted from each other by 1-3 px, but also shifted in value. So if I move the layers that are shifted to the right to the left, some parts of the image will look better, but others will look worse.

Hi Kadano. I pretty much gave up with AverMedia delivering anything good.

I should also note that in mid 2013 AVerMedia changed the PCB to Version. E and guess what? It is somehow WORSE than what you posted over Component.

Here are the old PCB and then the new PCB screenshots (top is old H727). The new PCB is distinguished by not having capacitors on the PCB. It's not just a darkness issue either, the new PCB has this really bad color bleeding or something (check around the girl's avatar where some green magically appears). Note that the green is not present on any of the other like 5 capture cards I have.

The sooner everyone recognizes Micomsoft as the gods of the capture world, the sooner AVerMedia can die.

Thank you for the insight! I do have Version E, unfortunately, and as you said, there are no capacitors on the PCB at all.

I will ask Avermedia for a replacement of the old version. Do you know what it was called (like, “Version D”)?

I am so disappointed with this product. When I ordered it, I thought “Yay, affordable YPbPr capture through PCIe so I don’t have to deal with USB3 problems”. But I would never have imagined that Avermedia not only sold a bad product in the first place, but also released a new version that’s even worse, apparently just to cut costs.

What did you do with your Ver.E card? If I can’t get a replacement from Avermedia, I’m thinking of re-selling it to someone who only needs it for HDMI capture. Maybe I can get 50€ for it so that I’m only at a loss of 30€.

[TheThrillness]

Kadano, if you need great YPbPr you can get the PEXHDCAP which is the older Micomsoft SC-500N1 card. There also exists a PCIe version of the XCAPTURE-1 called SC-512N1-L. I own both. I would have kept the Shuttle but I was just having too many USB3 bandwidth troubles (flicker frames) with native USB3 and then also with a "verified" USB3 external card. I gave up after that.

I actually kept my Ver. E card just for HDMI capture as I only play via HDMI now. I'm not sure if the issue is a driver or hardware problem (obviously the latter means it will never be fixed). What is really weird though is that composite/S-Video on the Version. E is actually comparable to the more expensive C727 model (blue PCB). I should also say that the C727 has great Component capture so before I tested the new H727, I thought I was gonna get equal Component capture since composite/S-Video was the same.

[Kadano]

I already ordered the XCAPTURE-1. I have a PCIe USB3 card with a Renesas chip, so I’m fairly confident it will work on my system.

I want to capture from a Gamecube and have four digital cables for it. One of them is modded for 480p60 RGBHV output with a DSUB plug, so those DSUB input and pass-through options on the XCAPTURE-1 are just what I need.

So you don’t know what the earlier version was called?

Also, those USB3 problem with a verified PCIe card, were those with the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle or did your “Shuttle” refer to the XCAPTURE-1?

[jagabo]

Any chance you could upload some short video samples with these problems?

[TheThrillness]

Yeah sorry I have no idea what the earlier versions went under. If logic means anything to AVerMedia, there was another 4 versions floating around.

Yes they were with the Blackmagic. I stayed away from the XCAPTURE-1 because I thought it might have the same issues. I am however confident that you will be fine. Even Blackmagic won't let the Shuttle do 1080p60 as they are probably not confident in their driver writing but the XCAPTURE-1 will do it.

[Kadano]

Any chance you could upload some short video samples with these problems?

Sure: http://www.mediafire.com/watch/xsl89asx4g6t6jx/Avermedia_H727_Ver.E_YPbPr_sample.avi
Encoded with Lagarith. Pretty short because my upload speed isn’t too good (~450KB/s / 3.6 Mbit/s). If this isn’t sufficient, please tell me the kind of scene you need.
Edit: Longer scene with more different colors, but encoded with x264 (CRF=18): http://www.mediafire.com/watch/xsl89asx4g6t6jx/Avermedia_H727_Ver.E_YPbPr_sample.avi

Yeah sorry I have no idea what the earlier versions went under. If logic means anything to AVerMedia, there was another 4 versions floating around.

Yes they were with the Blackmagic. I stayed away from the XCAPTURE-1 because I thought it might have the same issues. I am however confident that you will be fine. Even Blackmagic won't let the Shuttle do 1080p60 as they are probably not confident in their driver writing but the XCAPTURE-1 will do it.

Okay, I hope you are right! I don’t really like to use USB3, but with the SC500 / PEXHDCAP, I would need to use DSUB splitters, which I’d rather avoid.

[Kadano]

After much reading on the subject (there are so many dependencies … sigh), I decided to ask Jacob Iyamu of Solaris Japan to cancel my XCAPTURE-1 order. 300€+ including tax is just too much compared to the SC500 (123€), considering I don’t need 1080p60. Also, I use a Sony PVM, which has YPbPr pass-through anyway. For my second setup with RGBHV, I’ll just use an active DSUB splitter for ~12€.

If I’d go for a passive one (~4€), increasing the brightness levels on the monitor and the capture pin should give me the same picture as when using XCAPTURE-1’s DSUB passthrough, right?

[jagabo]

Any chance you could upload some short video samples with these problems?

Sure: http://www.mediafire.com/watch/xsl89asx4g6t6jx/Avermedia_H727_Ver.E_YPbPr_sample.avi
Encoded with Lagarith.

Thanks for that sample. The levels and saturation can be adjusted to make it look pretty close to the Black Magic Shuttle image you posted. And it's not quite as sharp. Those issues could be adjusted with the proc amp controls if it had them. The color smear/bleed is confounding though.

I did notice that your sample was encoded as RGB, not YUV 4:2:2. Some of the color smearing could be from that conversion. Can it not capture as YUV 4:2:2? YUY2 or UYVY for example?

[Kadano]

Thanks for that sample. The levels and saturation can be adjusted to make it look pretty close to the Black Magic Shuttle image you posted. And it's not quite as sharp. Those issues could be adjusted with the proc amp controls if it had them. The color smear/bleed is confounding though.

I did notice that your sample was encoded as RGB, not YUV 4:2:2. Some of the color smearing could be from that conversion. Can it not capture as YUV 4:2:2? YUY2 or UYVY for example?

Here is a screenshot of my proc amp controls:


It’s RGB because that was the default and recommended setting in Lagarith. The picture quality over component 480p60 has never looked better than that to me, but I’m uploading a Lagarith YUY2 sample right now: http://www.mediafire.com/watch/ybugmb2gqgcq5o7

Strangely, 480i60 over component yields slightly better quality than 480p60, with less color bleed:

But yeah, going interlaced is really no option for me now that I have a 480p60 capable Sony PVM, haha.

Do you think I might get all proc amp controls some way? Also, what kinds of adjustments did you made to improve the picture?

[jagabo]

Thanks for the YUY2 version. It's not much different than the RGB version. I don't think there's any way you can enable other functions on the proc amp. Unless you can find a different driver. In my experience, XP drivers sometimes have more of the proc amp functions enabled -- if you can run on XP. Most of the adjustments I did were to the brightness and saturation of the video. And a little sharpening. In AviSynth:

ColorYUV(gain_y=36, off_y=-3, gamma_y=10, cont_u=20, cont_v=5)
Sharpen(0.5,0.0)

I also tried a ChromaShift(c=-2) to the left by two pixels but didn't think that worked out.

[Brad]

The C027/H727 uses the same faulty chipset for all analog signals, so CVBS, S-Video and YPbPr all have this problem.

Nah; the YPbPr chip is separate from the other inputs. I believe that's one reason they split the drivers into "Capture" and "Capture Secondary".

2011 version of the H727 grabbed from the Russian review site ixbt.com for comparison to what you've got.

[Kadano]

Thanks for correcting me! That was just my guess from seeing how both CVBS and YPbPr have color blur and shift.

Avermedia technical support just responded and told me that someone is currently looking at the problem. We might see a driver fix; if not (or if I don’t want to wait), I can send my card in and receive an old version instead.