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  1. Originally Posted by CobraPilot View Post
    BTW: Is that popcorn buttered?
    I hope...
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    I updated my post in #8. Couple of movie fan companions and I took another look at the BJC Series this morning. For the benefit of the O.P., the BJC series is USA-made, beautifully constructed, and a favorite in some other forums. They've been used for runs up to 100 feet. I'd like a little more snap in the contrast IMHO, but that's compared to the usual (and lesser) products. Will make an improvement in audio for those hooked up to high-end receivers.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 02:52.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    I updated my post in #8. Couple of movie fan companions and I took another look at the BJC Series this morning. For the benefit of the O.P., the BJC series is USA-made, beautifully constructed, and a favorite in some other forums. They've been used for runs up to 100 feet. I'd like a little more snap in the contrast IMHO, but that's compared to the usual (and lesser) products. Will make an improvement in audio for those hooked up to high-end receivers.

    If durability is a concern, FYI Audoquest products have a 7-year warranty.
    The video exhibits no other defects, however there is not enough snap in the contrast compared to "better" HDMI cables using all the same equipment othewise, eh? There is absolutely no way for that scenario to be possible. I'll bet a properly conducted double-blind test, especially one where each participant viewed the video alone and evaluated the performance of the cable alone would change the outcome.
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    Oops. Wrong forum.
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  5. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    I'd like a little more snap in the contrast IMHO, but that's compared to the usual (and lesser) products. Will make an improvement in audio for those hooked up to high-end receivers.
    Comedy Gold!!
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    Anybody else notice that sanlyn appears to be removing all (over 6000) of his posts at Video Help? I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that he would do something like that.
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  7. Of course, the problems Sanlyn claims to see in posts #33 and #62 (which he deleted but is preserved in unusually_quite's reply in post #36 and #63) simply can't be caused by an HDMI cable. For example, "not enough snap in the contrast" I assume means a reduction of contrast. For that to happen the cable would have to darken all the bright pixels and lighten all the dark pixels proportionally. And all without other errors that would cause visible noise, changes in colors, etc. or else he would have mentioned them. Obviously, it's impossible for a cable to do this.

    If he really sees the reported differences it must have something to do with the source (player) or the sink (TV). For example, a cable that can't handle 1080p60 RGB might cause the transmission to switch to 1080i30 YUV. That could cause color and contrast differences (depending on how the devices are set up to convert YUV to RGB) and a reduction in resolution (RGB/YUV conversions and progressive/interlaced conversions). Or maybe, when the sink detects noise in the signal it switches on a noise reduction function causing blurring, smeared motion, etc. But these don't seem like likely causes of his problems because he sees different problems with different cables and opposite issues (increased contrast vs. decreased contrast, blurring vs sharpening, etc.) compared to his preferred cables.
    Last edited by jagabo; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:11.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Anybody else notice that sanlyn appears to be removing all (over 6000) of his posts at Video Help? I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that he would do something like that.
    I didn't notice, but I figured out last year he's a complete nut job, so while it's not what I would have expected (I expected him to continue to tilt at windmills in this thread and continue to insist that he is right and EVERYBODY else is wrong), I can't say that it's a complete surprise. A lot of what he did here wasn't even rational. But he's got an addictive personality and he's incapable of even admitting that he might be wrong about anything, so don't be surprised if he returns in a few weeks or few months.
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  9. Quite a shame really, i've learnt a great deal from reading sanlyns posts over the last year. All the best Sanlyn.
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Anybody else notice that sanlyn appears to be removing all (over 6000) of his posts at Video Help? I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that he would do something like that.
    I didn't notice, but I figured out last year he's a complete nut job, so while it's not what I would have expected (I expected him to continue to tilt at windmills in this thread and continue to insist that he is right and EVERYBODY else is wrong), I can't say that it's a complete surprise. A lot of what he did here wasn't even rational. But he's got an addictive personality and he's incapable of even admitting that he might be wrong about anything, so don't be surprised if he returns in a few weeks or few months.
    He has certainly made sure that all future members here can know of him are the things that others quoted, and many of those quotes would not leave a favorable impression. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

    If he does come back, he'll do it under a different username for obvious reasons, but I doubt any long time members will have any difficulty figuring out who he used to be.
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  11. I just dont understand the reasoning of deleting the posts, kinda like im taking my knowledge of filters to the grave, this generation will have no knowledge of video restoration lol its the pyramids all over again i tell ya.
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  12. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    If he really sees the reported differences it must have something to do with the source (player) or the sink (TV). For example, a cable that can't handle 1080p60 RGB might cause the transmission to switch to 1080i30 YUV. That could cause color and contrast differences (depending on how the devices are set up to convert YUV to RGB) and a reduction in resolution (RGB/YUV conversions and progressive/interlaced conversions).
    Not possible - RGB is mandatory color space that must be supported by all HDMI devices, YCbCr is optional color space (and 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 are mandatory when YCbCr is supported).
    I would go for functionality embedded in EDID - like XYZ, Adobe etc then i can rationally explain difference between various HDMI sink's (i.e. TV or similar) but still this is cable independent factor.

    Issue with HDMI is that it sent over wire RAW video samples, 3 differential lines are used for data and one line is used for clock to synchronize data - as skew between differential and clock is defined then there is no place for misplaced data, also what is very important - HDMI receiver collect data and fill buffer in memory (latency is unavoidable from HDMI perspective and it is at least one field/frame - i can imagine reduced latency but overall it will be complicated), side to those fast lines there good, old I2C bus used to sent EDID data, HDCP data (HDCP are relative low speed data). It is not possible form cable perspective to introduce subtle changes in video or audio as DVI\HDMI is TMDS data coding ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_Minimized_Differential_Signaling ) - bits are XOR/XNOR thus single bit change will made change visible in many bits but for sure this change will more than subtle.
    Subtle change imply from cable to perform fully HDMI receiver and transmitter function and any sane person will not accept fact that conductor (even with complex impedance) is same efficient as complex silicone chip - this is ridiculous - there is lot of hype behind digitalization of data, most of them are from digital audio where idea about interface is completely different as data and clock are combined into one wire where clock must recovered by receiver - this is not the case for HMDI where clock is sent as a separate signal...
    There is no chance to change video/audio data in a subtle way especially that HDMI devices use extensively memory buffers thus all problems related to digital audio are not the case for HDMI.

    Any observed subtle differences are purely related to device configuration and perceived reality by person - same principle as for placebo effect.
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  13. Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    If he really sees the reported differences it must have something to do with the source (player) or the sink (TV). For example, a cable that can't handle 1080p60 RGB might cause the transmission to switch to 1080i30 YUV. That could cause color and contrast differences (depending on how the devices are set up to convert YUV to RGB) and a reduction in resolution (RGB/YUV conversions and progressive/interlaced conversions).
    Not possible
    Of course what I described is possible. The original HDMI spec did not include 1080p RGB at 60 Hz as its bandwidth is too high. So one cable might allow the devices to connect at 1080p60 RGB while another connects at 1080i30. Once that happens you may have the issue of a progressive source being converted to interlaced then back to progressive leading to blurring and other deinterlacing artifacts. You also have the issue of who does the conversion of YUV in the source to the final RGB you see on the screen. Different setups on the source and sync can lead to different contrast (PC vs Rec scaling) and colors (601 vs 709 matrices).

    That doesn't explain all the problems Sanlyn claims to see but it could explain some of them. But like I said, I don't think this is likely because the differences he described aren't consistent.
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  14. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Of course what I described is possible. The original HDMI spec did not include 1080p RGB at 60 Hz as its bandwidth is too high. So one cable might allow the devices to connect at 1080p60 RGB while another connects at 1080i30. Once that happens you may have the issue of a progressive source being converted to interlaced then back to progressive leading to blurring and other deinterlacing artifacts. You also have the issue of who does the conversion of YUV in the source to the final RGB you see on the screen. Different setups on the source and sync can lead to different contrast (PC vs Rec scaling) and colors (601 vs 709 matrices).

    That doesn't explain all the problems Sanlyn claims to see but it could explain some of them. But like I said, I don't think this is likely because the differences he described aren't consistent.
    Nope - first - HDMI support same pixel clock as DVI where 1920x1080p60 is fully possible (as pixel clock specified for DVI/HDMI is 165MHz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.0_to_1.2 ) second there is misunderstanding about how HDMI works.

    HDMI source sent to HDMI Sink (receiver) signal "im ready"
    in exchange HDMI Sink sent to HDMI Source EDID data where information's about supported modes are sent (video resolutions, audio, color, other things etc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data ) then based on this information HDMI Source will start outputting data - that's all - side to this there is mess with HDCP but this is not the case for issue we talk.

    So cable have nothing to do with mode selection - this is done based on data exchanged between HDMI point - cable is plainly stupid conductor and if it is broken then link is broken - of course i can imagine that device have some identification for fault mode but this is implemented not on fast data lines but on relatively slow I2C bus (speeds such as 100 or 400kbps - way less than few tens or over 100 MHz).
    So if EDID is sent OK then HDMI Source can be not even aware that link is faulty - this is usually up to manual customer action and believe if HDMI link fail there is no subtle video difference but first picture deteriorate with color snow and quickly you see only color pixel snow as data are scrambled and looks pseudorandom - there is no recognizable audio or video.
    Unless you are not partially blind then you will realize that there is some problem with video.
    All subtle differences can be only during EDID interpretation (like mentioned color spaces, color profiles etc) but this will be cable independent.
    Once again cable provide link and link can be only or good or bad - there is no place for subtle video difference - HDMI is not S/PDIF.
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    In any case, if any of what sanlyn claimed to have observed was real, it could not be the result of using "inferior" cables. It is statistically improbable that out of 40 HDMI cables tested, only 5 were not defective and able to consistently deliver a good signal through every wire.

    If video and audio data isn't getting through, or is significantly corrupted, the symptoms don't match his descriptions. That leaves EDID or HDCP-related issues. From everything I've been reading about trouble-shooting those, the components being connected by the cables are most likely to be at fault, and home theater receivers were frequent offenders.
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  16. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    In any case, if any of what sanlyn claimed to have observed was real, it could not be the result of using "inferior" cables. It is statistically improbable that out of 40 HDMI cables tested, only 5 were not defective and able to consistently deliver a good signal through every wire.

    If video and audio data isn't getting through, or is significantly corrupted, the symptoms don't match his descriptions. That leaves EDID or HDCP-related issues. From everything I've been reading about trouble-shooting those, the components being connected by the cables are most likely to be at fault, and home theater receivers were frequent offenders.
    Once again - HDMI cable can't modify any signal in a way that can be described as "subtle difference" - HDMI link is OK or bad - bad is not subtle but groups of pixels completely corrupted/whole screen is one big color noise pixel area - there is no way to do subtle modifications.
    This can be done but not in cable, not even in HDMI source but only in TV itself. HDCP is different story - there black video (no video), mess such as color pseudorandom noise (video is scrambled by simple encryptor which also look like pseudorandom color noise) or normal video, there is no place even with HDCP problem for subtle differences - if there are any subtle differences there is something else than cable...
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    HDCP is different story - there black video (no video), mess such as color pseudorandom noise (video is scrambled by simple encryptor which also look like pseudorandom color noise) or normal video, there is no place even with HDCP problem for subtle differences - if there are any subtle differences there is something else than cable...
    My understanding is that when a hardware Blu-Ray player is connected to a TV using HDMI, and the TV appears not to be HDCP compliant, the player can automatically change over to 480p video output and stereo audio output. Someone would still see a DVD-quality picture (upscaled by the TV) and hear audio, but not multi-channel audio.
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  18. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    HDCP is different story - there black video (no video), mess such as color pseudorandom noise (video is scrambled by simple encryptor which also look like pseudorandom color noise) or normal video, there is no place even with HDCP problem for subtle differences - if there are any subtle differences there is something else than cable...
    My understanding is that when a hardware Blu-Ray player is connected to a TV using HDMI, and the TV appears not to be HDCP compliant, the player can automatically change over to 480p video output and stereo audio output. Someone would still see a DVD-quality picture (upscaled by the TV) and hear audio, but not multi-channel audio.
    Still not the case as you have information (different video mode etc) - previously it was requirement to reduce resolution by half in both direction (ie output 1920x1080 but decimate in resize/lowpass filter efficient resolution to 960x540) but Hollywood industry canceled this quite quickly (as obviously resolution was higher than SD) anyway most of typical HDMI sources currently remove HDCP and display error information about non HDCP complaint HDMI sink and you need to unplug HDMI (instead HDMI use remain SD/ED analog interface).

    But this is not subtle difference especially that TV display video mode information (press OK or Info button on RCU)...
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    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    HDCP is different story - there black video (no video), mess such as color pseudorandom noise (video is scrambled by simple encryptor which also look like pseudorandom color noise) or normal video, there is no place even with HDCP problem for subtle differences - if there are any subtle differences there is something else than cable...
    My understanding is that when a hardware Blu-Ray player is connected to a TV using HDMI, and the TV appears not to be HDCP compliant, the player can automatically change over to 480p video output and stereo audio output. Someone would still see a DVD-quality picture (upscaled by the TV) and hear audio, but not multi-channel audio.
    Still not the case as you have information (different video mode etc) - previously it was requirement to reduce resolution by half in both direction (ie output 1920x1080 but decimate in resize/lowpass filter efficient resolution to 960x540) but Hollywood industry canceled this quite quickly (as obviously resolution was higher than SD) anyway most of typical HDMI sources currently remove HDCP and display error information about non HDCP complaint HDMI sink and you need to unplug HDMI (instead HDMI use remain SD/ED analog interface).

    But this is not subtle difference especially that TV display video mode information (press OK or Info button on RCU)...
    Yes, but someone must choose to look for the information and try to understand what it means, instead of immediately deciding the cable is at fault for what he sees and hears because the cable is cheap. Plus, I have read posts from a few people claiming that they can't see much difference between the DVD version (upscaled by their TV) of some movies they have watched, and the Blu-Ray version.
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  20. Sanlyn!
    common, do not delete your inputs, it destroys a flow and lots of knowledge is in those inputs, this forum comes up often in searches if somebody looks for some advice about scripting in Avisynth foremost, take a break, come back or don't, we all have those days, this is nobodies fault, just some stupid arguments, nobody reads those long ones anyway.
    Al
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Sanlyn!
    common, do not delete your inputs, it destroys a flow and lots of knowledge is in those inputs, this forum comes up often in searches if somebody looks for some advice about scripting in Avisynth foremost, take a break, come back or don't, we all have those days, this is nobodies fault, just some stupid arguments, nobody reads those long ones anyway.
    Al
    Too late for pleading. The deed is pretty well done. Since he's decided to obliterate his record here, even Google will largely forget him in time.
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  22. Now all we need to do is see Smurf and a couple other geniuses leave and we wont know how to tie our shoelaces or use a keyboard. Bad times ahead
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  23. How do I plug in my new keyboard? Oh, never mind.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post

    Too late for pleading. The deed is pretty well done. Since he's decided to obliterate his record here, even Google will largely forget him in time.
    Forget who?
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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    Originally Posted by VideoChunkster View Post
    Now all we need to do is see Smurf and a couple other geniuses leave and we wont know how to tie our shoelaces or use a keyboard. Bad times ahead
    I'm no genius. Nothing of the kind. There are plenty of experts around who know more than I do -- jagabo, pdr, 2Bdecided, manono and others -- those are the experts I learned from. I don't know where this "genius" business comes from; probably just playing around with words.
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  26. Cos any question i had i did a search and most the time the answer that answered what i was looking for was a sanlyn post.
    Status - Attacked by mold spores. - Pour out a lil liquor for all the homies lost in the format wars. Sanlyn will live again, a Sanlyn v2.0 if you will
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  27. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    I don't know where this "genius" business comes from; probably just playing around with words.
    Wouldn't one of the pre-requisites for being able to notice a change in audio/video quality as a result of using different HDMI cables be some exceptional form of genius.

    Once or twice in the past I've had a discussion in forums where someone's been proven wrong or nobody agrees with them so they've deleted all their posts in the thread, but this is the first time I've encountered the level of genius required to execute a dummy spit on such a large multi-threaded scale.

    Those imaginary visitors of yours? Did you invite them to watch you delete all your posts? Did they laugh?
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  28. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_%28sense%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_%28sense%29

    We are humans, we see mostly what we want to see (90% optical information is lost inside neural processing in eye before it will be transmitted to brain where loss is again around 90% add to this analog memory shaped by other memories as memory is shared), i can believe some people want to see difference between cables, they wan to hear difference, they believe in gold plated power cable connector, some claims that they hear difference between Teflon and polyethylene insulation in cable (yes, this provide measurable effect as speed velocity in cable is related to dielectric nature and cable construction) but... even such people can't ignore other factor that affect perceived quality...
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  29. In this case I think you forgot an applicable link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childish

    His post deleting tantrum seems to have extended back to last November now. If I was a mod I'd ban him before he makes a mess of any more threads.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    His post deleting tantrum seems to have extended back to last November now. If I was a mod I'd ban him before he makes a mess of any more threads.
    He's gone back further than that. It looks like he's now decided to concentrate on removing all the Avisynth scripts he posted rather than everything. If he was actually posting here to help others as he once claimed, he would have left them. I guess that was not his motivation for joining here after all.

    Someone has done this kind of thing here before, although since that member's tenure was shorter, there were fewer posts removed.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 20th Mar 2014 at 08:15.
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