WMV conversion

[radji]

Howdy all. I am trying to convert some video loops from WMV to MPEG2.

And I've run into a problem.

I have tried using two different programs: AVS Video Converter and Adobe Media Encoder CC.

Each time I convert the wmv, it creates a short stutter at the end of the loop. I have found I can minimize the stutter by forcing the multiplexer settings on AME to none (as opposed to PS or TS). But it will cut out 480ms causing a small jump. I know the video loop is fine cause the end and start frames look fine in VirtualDub.

Anyone have any suggestions on settings or a different program to try? I have to convert it to MPEG 2 cause that is the only other format windows dreamscene will accept.

[Baldrick]

Are you converting to same frame rate as the wmv?

Test free converters like xmedia recode, avidemux.

Or really good mpeg2 encoders like hcenc, tmpgenc but they might be a bit more complex.

[radji]

I will test them in the AM (or my AM at least). I

I am converting at the same framerate, same aspect ratio, and same resolution. The bitrate is as close as the original as I can get.

And there's no sound in the original WMV. These are video loops only. No audio.

[radji]

Tried XMedia, AVIDemux, and tmpgenc. The converted MPEG from all three had the same stutter.

[Baldrick]

Post the details from your wmv. Use mediainfo, open wmv, view->text.

[radji]

Format : Windows Media
File size : 14.5 MiB
Duration : 15s 460ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 7 851 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 8 049 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-29 17:46:07.300

Video
ID : 1
Format : VC-1
Format profile : MP@HL
Codec ID : WMV3
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 9
Codec ID/Hint : WMV3
Description of the codec : Windows Media Video 9 - Professional
Duration : 15s 480ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.154
Stream size : 14.8 MiB
NumberOfFrames : 375

[Baldrick]

Try convert to some other format and just to see if it also stutters.

And maybe post a sample of the wmv and mpg?

[radji]

It doesn't stutter to avi. It does to MP4. Here are the wmv original and the MPEG conversion.

[El Heggunte]

Please check this re-encode (created with HCenc, muxed with TMPGEnc):

[radji]

Still stutters at the end. Thanks for recoding it though.

[jman98]

Your "stuttering" problem suggests to me that your computer is seriously overtaxed in trying to play your video. I would think that your CPU is sufficient for playing WMV so the fact that AVI works fine and MP4 and the test encode don't definitely suggests that something is basically eating up your CPU. You have a laptop obviously (that's a laptop CPU) and I'm no expert on those, so others will have to suggest what might be going on. Maybe your video is underpowered.

[radji]

Normally I'd agree with you. But I've gone thru all the other possible causes of the stutter.

1. My notebook is an Alienware M17x R2. It does have a decent CPU (i7-920XM) and GPU (ATI 5870m).

2. My GPU was recently replaced. And there are no processes eating up my CPU or GPU (other than the normal 2%-3% for Dreamscene).

3. I know dreamscene and/or the MS video codecs aren't faulty cause I have other MPEG2 video loops which run fine with no stutter. They are attached to this reply.

I am curious on what you mean the video is underpowered. Is that like the max bitrate limit is set too low?

[zing269]

The only thing I noticed was that the working files were mpeg elementary streams while the ones that stuttered were mpeg-ps. I demuxed your BigBlueSeaHD.mpg to an elementary stream, see if it works.

[radji]

No dice. Still stutters. Told you it was weird. It does this for any of the wmvs I try to convert. Does the stutter appear when any of you play this on WMP on loop?

[zing269]

All of the mpeg files stutter for me. Although the two that worked for you only had a brief pause for me. The wmv original did not stutter.

[El Heggunte]

Possibly the actual problem is in Windows Media Player itself.

Remember, WMP = Windows Media Player.

[radji]

I've tried it on MPC and it does stutter as well. Same with Quicktime.

[El Heggunte]

By default, WMP uses Microsoft's MPEG-2 decoder, which probably suxxx.
MPC-HC uses ffmpeg/libav, which is not flawless at MPEG-2 decoding either.

Possibly none of the above were designed with «loop/gapless playback» in mind

As for QucikTime: NO COMMENTS (i.e., #$%@**!! >_ < ¬¬)

Assuming that the problem is a "life-or-death situation" for you...

then try different MPEG-2 decoders (DScaler 5, or CLvsd.ax from PowerDVD), and/or
media splitters which let you control the buffer size (AV Splitter, ¿Haali?).

Otherwise, I've just run out of ideas

[radji]

I did the search to use CLVsd.ax as the default decoder. I think I got it installed correctly. I just had to put it into SysWOW64 and use the 64bit Regserv to register it. I also changed the codec CLSID in the registry over to the Cyberlink codec. But I don't really know if Dreamscene if really using the CLVsd codec.

Anyway, it didn't make a difference...but your answer did! Whilst doing the search I came across the following page:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/60becac1-d537-4f46-a32f-93fce...l-dxva-for-vc1

It details the MPEG & WMV parameters for encoding a Dreamscene loop. I followed these for the most part with Adobe Media Encoder, and it almost worked! The MPEG does not stutter at the end. It jumps instead. I've noticed it is because 480ms has been cut off from the end.

I will try encoding with XMedia and post what the results are. But it's progress!

[radji]

Ughhhhh.

Tried encoding with Xmedia. No dice. The MPEG came out unplayable. Anyone want to steo me thru encoding with hcenc and tmpgenc to get the following parameters?

◦15 & 8 Mbps MPEG2
◦Stream Format: Generic ISO MPEG Stream
◦Stream Type: MPEG-2 Elementary Stream
◦Interlacing: Non-Interlaced
◦Aspect Ratio Code: 16:9
◦Quality/Speed: Mastering Quality
◦Bitrate type: CBR
◦Video Bitrate: 15000 (8000)
◦Profile/Level: HP@HL
◦VBV Buffer Size: 1492
◦Max GOP Size: 15
◦Closed GOP: yes
◦Chroma Format: 4:2:0
◦Intra DC Precision: 9
◦Strict GOP bitrate: No
◦No audio used
◦Insert one sequence header before each GOP

[Baldrick]

I can't see any stutter in any file. Where exactly should I see it?

[mike20021969]

I can't see any stutter in any file.

Me neither (and I'm using an 8 year old laptop running Windows XP).

[poisondeathray]

I think he means stuttering when looped, and played specifically through "dreamscene"

[radji]

Correct. Specifically at the end. The last 500ms the motion stops but the video is still playing. I've confirmed this in Virtualdub as the last set of frames are identical in the recoded version, but not in the WMV original.

[poisondeathray]

Correct. Specifically at the end. The last 500ms the motion stops but the video is still playing. I've confirmed this in Virtualdub as the last set of frames are identical in the recoded version, but not in the WMV original.

Which version are you referring to? How many duplicate frames are you seeing? I've confirmed they aren't identical in El Heggunte's re-encoded version and are identical cadence wise to the wmv version (exact number and placement of frames). So it's a playback issue, not repeated frame issue. The fact that you can loop it with avisynth seamlessly (the looping is done through the script by playing the video end to end) in a common media player supports this (or go frame by frame to check) . However, playing the file natively and using the media player's looping ability causes a pause on any of the mpeg2 files

You can use those specific encoding settings in Adobe Media Encoder . HCEnc doesn't support true CBR encoding

All of the mpeg files stutter for me. Although the two that worked for you only had a brief pause for me. The wmv original did not stutter.

I'm the same as zing269 , testing in various media players(not dreamscene)

[radji]

Which version are you referring to? How many duplicate frames are you seeing? I've confirmed they aren't identical in El Heggunte's re-encoded version and are identical cadence wise to the wmv version (exact number and placement of frames). So it's a playback issue, not repeated frame issue. The fact that you can loop it with avisynth seamlessly (the looping is done through the script by playing the video end to end) in a common media player supports this (or go frame by frame to check) . However, playing the file natively and using the media player's looping ability causes a pause on any of the mpeg2 files

You can use those specific encoding settings in Adobe Media Encoder . HCEnc doesn't support true CBR encoding

I'm the same as zing269 , testing in various media players(not dreamscene)

Good to know that it may just be me.

But some of the setting on Adobe Media Encoder, I cannot find.

Like, Quality/Speed: Mastering Quality, Profile/Level: HP@HL, Strict GOP bitrate: No, Insert one sequence header before each GOP. I can't find any of those settings. I also cannot get the VBR buffer size to 1492k. The highest it will go to is 597k Is that just a limitation for the MPEG 2 or the source?

Any other settings in Adobe Media Encoder you recommend I change when encoding this video loop?

The problem it seems with Adobe ME now is, when encoding with the recommended settings, it cuts off the last 480ms off the video loop. The video loop is supposed to be 15.480 seconds.

[poisondeathray]

"mastering quality" is not relevant for sure

HP@HL probaby isn't relevant because the video you said that worked (aqua_ocean.mpg) doesn't use it (main@high) , but the profile and level can be selected in AME if you use the generic MPEG2 preset

If you set profile to high, level to high (that's HP@HL), then VBV buffer size can go to 746 (note that is expressed in 2kbyte size), so 2x746=1492kbyte

But you're right - it doesn't have "Insert one sequence header before each GOP" option. You need the Mainconcept/Rovi encoder for that option; the limited licensed version in AME doesn't have all options available

[poisondeathray]

Directshow gives you extra repeat frames at the end 387 total, 12 extra frames - that's probably what you were seeing in vdub . That will never create a seamless loop regardless of how it's encoded or played. That is a decoding problem of the wmv . 15.480 contains 480ms of repeat frames

If you index the WMV (e.g. with ffms2 in avisynth) it will give 375 frames exactly (0 to 374) , that does give a seamless loop if it is played properly. You can use loop() in avisynth and check frame by frame, and that verifies it. I'm 100% certain

El Heggunte's was created with the proper frames, it just doesn't loop properly in media players when played natively . But it loops ok through avisynth .avs in a media player . So the loop itself is fine, it's just a media player playback issue

[Cornucopia]

I was thinking the GOP sequence wasn't being exactly maintained from source to target and the player didn't like the change in progression (Open vs. Closed)?
I also notice that your WMV source has 15s460ms duration in the container header and 15s480ms in the video stream header. Maybe that is causing some confusion with the decoders & subsequent encoders.

...Dang it, sounds like pdr beat me to the punch!

Scott

[radji]

Directshow gives you extra repeat frames at the end 387 total, 12 extra frames - that's probably what you were seeing in vdub . That will never create a seamless loop regardless of how it's encoded or played. That is a decoding problem of the wmv . 15.480 contains 480ms of repeat frames

If you index the WMV (e.g. with ffms2 in avisynth) it will give 375 frames exactly (0 to 374) , that does give a seamless loop if it is played properly. You can use loop() in avisynth and check frame by frame, and that verifies it. I'm 100% certain

El Heggunte's was created with the proper frames, it just doesn't loop properly in media players when played natively . But it loops ok through avisynth .avs in a media player . So the loop itself is fine, it's just a media player playback issue

What would you recommend then? Loading a different MPEG2 codec for the PreferredMPEG2VideoDecoderCLSID registry value?