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  1. Member
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    Hello!

    More and more 4K consumer handcams and other consumer camcorders (will) appear on the market in this year.

    Are the 1080p camcorders SD (standard) camcorders in 2014??

    Share your opinion!
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    i would, if i understood the question.
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  3. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deadrats View Post
    i would, if i understood the question.
    Lol.

    Methinks the OP is trying to say that 1080p is NOT HD.

    Well, it is. I am sure that the marketing boys will come up with a clever name for 4K. One thing is for sure. It wil NOT be marketed as HD.
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    I don't thing 4k cameras make 1080p "SD". More like the 4k cameras are HD+, since they're not mainstream yet.

    Is anybody streaming 4k? Is the bandwidth there?
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  5. Netflix announced they will be streaming 4K for House of Cards S2, but only on certain TVs.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I am sure that the marketing boys will come up with a clever name for 4K.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_definition_television
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ah. Ultra-HD. Muchas gracias.
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  7. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    UHD for short
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  8. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    No sane person without money to burn bought the first generation consumer HD camcorders.
    No sane person without money to burn will buy the first generation consumer 4k/UHD camcorders.

    If anything, most consumer video needs a higher frame rate, not a higher resolution. 4k is gorgeous, and it's always great to future proof your footage, but true (rather than interpolated / made up) 120fps will be along in a couple of years, and that will bring a huge improvement to motion portrayal on modern displays.

    Cheers,
    David.
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    High Definition video does not mean only the 1080 resolution.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_video

    History

    The first electronic scanning format, 405 lines, was the first "high definition" television system, since the mechanical systems it replaced had far fewer. From 1939, Europe and the US tried 605 and 441 lines until, in 1941, the FCC mandated 525 for the US. In wartime France, René Barthélemy tested higher resolutions, up to 1,042. In late 1949, official French transmissions finally began with 819. In 1984, however, this standard was abandoned for 625-line color on the TF1 network.

    1980s

    Modern HD specifications date to the early 1970s, when Japanese engineers developed the HighVision 1,125-line interlaced TV standard (also called MUSE) that ran at 60 frames per second. The Sony HDVS system was presented at an international meeting of television engineers in Algiers, April 1981 and Japan's NHK presented its analog HDTV system at a Swiss conference in 1983.

    The NHK system was standardized in the United States as Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) standard #240M in the early 1990s, but abandoned later on when it was replaced by a DVB analog standard. HighVision video is still usable for HDTV video interchange, but there is almost no equipment around to perform this function. Attempts at shoehorning in HighVision into a 6 MHz broadcast channel were mostly unsuccessful. All attempts at using this format for terrestrial TV transmission were forsaken by the mid-1990s.

    Europe developed HD-MAC (1,250 lines, 50 Hz), a member of the MAC family of hybrid analogue/digital video standards; however, it never took off as a terrestrial video transmission format. HD-MAC was never designated for video interchange except by the European Broadcasting Union.

    The current high-definition video standards in North America were developed during the course of the advanced television process initiated by the Federal Communications Commission in 1987 at the request of American broadcasters. In essence, the end of the 1980s was a death knell for most analog high definition technologies that had developed up to that time.
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  10. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Did anyone bar yourself ever state it was ? 720i/p is not full HD but it is still HD.

    Most of us, and you by inference to your topic, are talking about digital formats. To bring analog systems in to the mix is just plain stoopid.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Did anyone bar yourself ever state it was ? 720i/p is not full HD but it is still HD.

    Most of us, and you by inference to your topic, are talking about digital formats. To bring analog systems in to the mix is just plain stoopid.
    I can't understant your strange logic. High Definition is not a fixed resolution, it depends on era.

    Now the 4K means the HD, because a lot of firm will produce 4K camcorders for the consumer market. 1080p will be SD and 4K will be the HD. It is so simple.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    No. It is simple but not as you read it. Forget the analog definitions. Did they EVER hit the consumer market in any viable quanity ?

    Read the above replies. 4K is not, nor ever will mean HD. There are defined standards. It is these standards that manufacturers adhere to so that consumers - those that actually part with their cash - can understand.

    If you can not understand then I can not help you.
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    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Did anyone bar yourself ever state it was ? 720i/p is not full HD but it is still HD.

    Most of us, and you by inference to your topic, are talking about digital formats. To bring analog systems in to the mix is just plain stoopid.
    I can't understant your strange logic. High Definition is not a fixed resolution, it depends on era.

    Now the 4K means the HD, because a lot of firm will produce 4K camcorders for the consumer market. 1080p will be SD and 4K will be the HD. It is so simple.
    You are the one with the peculiar logic. The English language doesn't work the way you think. Just because high definition video is presently considered to be "standard", doesn't mean that it will be called standard definition from now on. The engineering and technical community would have to accept the change, and I doubt that they will.

    The terms "standard definition", "enhanced definition", "high definition", and "ultra high definition" have already been assigned specific meanings in English. You can look them up in an online technical reference or English Wikipedia. If you don't agree, that is your choice, but nobody else will know what you mean since the rest of the English-speaking world calls anything beyond 576p and under 2000p "high definition video".

    ...and since the terminology has already been well-defined, this discussion is just a waste of time.
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  14. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    My brother mentioned the other day that they're already talking 8K in his neck of the woods. I laughed and asked him where it all ends. He said it doesn't...and never will.
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    There's already a thread in here on how large a TV you'll need to get the benefit of 4k resolution. Your not going to be getting a 50inch LED tv and expect to be blown away by 4k. It's the same ole argument about the difference between 720p and 1080p...you can't really see the difference in either if the TV size is 39 inches or under...i.e...if theres a 1080p tv under 39 inch, the content looks the same as 720p. My guess is that 4k will only matter to filmmakers, cinemas and people who are loaded with money to buy 90 inch plus TV's...cause thats what its gonna take to see the real resolution difference
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    No. It is simple but not as you read it. Forget the analog definitions. Did they EVER hit the consumer market in any viable quanity ?

    Read the above replies. 4K is not, nor ever will mean HD. There are defined standards. It is these standards that manufacturers adhere to so that consumers - those that actually part with their cash - can understand.

    If you can not understand then I can not help you.
    There are such "defined standards" only for the marketing men.
    Last edited by Stears555; 2nd Feb 2014 at 11:35.
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  17. Common ..., it makes no sense to change terminologies, communications would be broken, ...be real,..this is just flame topic, without a sense ,...for now, nobody can even play 4k with any common hardware box ....and what is "high" enough anyway ? I'd say 10000 x 5600 at least ...
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    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    No. It is simple but not as you read it. Forget the analog definitions. Did they EVER hit the consumer market in any viable quanity ?

    Read the above replies. 4K is not, nor ever will mean HD. There are defined standards. It is these standards that manufacturers adhere to so that consumers - those that actually part with their cash - can understand.

    If you can not understand then I can not help you.
    There are such "defined standards" only for the marketing men.
    ...and the membership of Video Help (yourself excluded), plus video professionals, and the general public in English speaking countries.

    English isn't even your native language, so you are particularly unqualified to say what the terminology used in English should be.

    I agree that anyone looking at this thread is going to begin to think you were trying to start a flame war or were trolling when you started this thread.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    No. It is simple but not as you read it. Forget the analog definitions. Did they EVER hit the consumer market in any viable quanity ?

    Read the above replies. 4K is not, nor ever will mean HD. There are defined standards. It is these standards that manufacturers adhere to so that consumers - those that actually part with their cash - can understand.

    If you can not understand then I can not help you.
    There are such "defined standards" only for the marketing men.
    ...and the membership of Video Help (yourself excluded), plus video professionals, and the general public in English speaking countries.

    English isn't even your native language, so you are particularly unqualified to say what the terminology used in English should be.

    I agree that anyone looking at this thread is going to begin to think you were trying to start a flame war or were trolling when you started this thread.
    When NTSC and later PAL were introduced, they were called HD resolutions. So , it is a clear proof that High definition (the term was born even before WW2) does not mean predefinied resolution. So it is not interesting what try to say the marketing men.
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  20. You're right stears. Since we now have Blu Ray, DVD is officially demoted to being called VHS and VHS is now porta pack.
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    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    When NTSC and later PAL were introduced, they were called HD resolutions. So , it is a clear proof that High definition (the term was born even before WW2) does not mean predefinied resolution. So it is not interesting what try to say the marketing men.
    What happened over 60 years ago with analog TV, in the very early years of commercial broadcasting, is not necessarily going to happen again with digital video.

    Since there is no evidence that many people currently share your opinion that 1080p video is a standard definition resolution (the opposite appears to be true) and since history does not in fact always repeat itself, this is a very poor argument on your part.

    You are either a troll or a fool and there is no point in arguing further with either, so I'm done here.
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  22. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Has anyone actually read elsewhere that premise on Wiki that 405 line tv was considered 'High Definition' pre WW2 ?

    But it does not matter since if you took the trouble to read the whole piece and not just the part that suits you your arguement flies out of the window.

    I am outa here as well.
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    Even the 1920 X 1080 p and 1440X1080, were created as an analog technology in 1980.

    Philip J. Cianci : High Definition Television: The Creation, Development and Implementation of HDTV Technology


    (The 40-year history of high definition television technology is traced from initial studies in Japan, through its development in Europe, and then to the United States, where the first all-digital systems were implemented. Details are provided about adv)


    Page : 24

    http://books.google.com/books?id=0mbsfr38GTgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22high+definitio...q=1080&f=false
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  24. Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Even the 1920 X 1080 p and 1440X1080, were created as an analog technology in 1980.
    Not true.
    1. Analog TV signals don't have pixel column measurements.
    2. NHK's analog MUSE was 1035 lines interlaced, not progressive.
    3. HD-MAC from 1986 was 1152i, BUT...
    4. The HD resolution of both systems couldn't actually be utilized for full motion imagery.
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    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Even the 1920 X 1080 p and 1440X1080, were created as an analog technology in 1980.
    Not true.
    1. Analog TV signals don't have pixel column measurements.
    2. NHK's analog MUSE was 1035 lines interlaced, not progressive.
    3. HD-MAC from 1986 was 1152i, BUT...
    4. The HD resolution of both systems couldn't actually be utilized for full motion imagery.
    WRONG.

    DVB-T and DVB-C (the most advanced HD TV standards) are still interlaced.

    LCD LED and Plasma HD-TV sets must to deinterlace it.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_high-definition_television_system

    1080 pixel was used as analog test format in 1980.
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  26. Explain how any of statements were wrong. I said nothing about DVB. I was responding to your specific claims that 1080p and a 1440x1080 format were analog inventions of 1980.

    Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    1080 pixel was used as analog test format in 1980.
    Again, pixels aren't analog. Here is your Wikipedia proof: "In digital imaging, a pixel, pel,[1] or picture element[2] is a physical point in a raster image..."
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  27. Are the 1080p camcorders SD (standard) camcorders in 2014??
    Only in one case, Only if 720x480(NTSC) and 720x576(PAL) become absolutely obsolete and vanish from consumer market.
    Not everyone can afford BD. Hope, world economy goes bullish soon!

    Originally posted by David
    No sane person without money to burn bought the first generation consumer HD camcorders.
    No sane person without money to burn will buy the first generation consumer 4k/UHD camcorders.

    If anything, most consumer video needs a higher frame rate, not a higher resolution. 4k is gorgeous, and it's always great to future proof your footage, but true (rather than interpolated / made up) 120fps will be along in a couple of years, and that will bring a huge improvement to motion portrayal on modern displays.
    -Cheers, I like that.

    Back in 1980, I have time travel back as my eyes were not opened.
    Last edited by enim; 4th Feb 2014 at 12:53.
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    Originally Posted by enim View Post
    Are the 1080p camcorders SD (standard) camcorders in 2014??
    Only in one case, Only if 720x480(NTSC) and 720x576(PAL) become absolutely obsolete and vanish from consumer market.
    Not everyone can afford BD. Hope, world economy goes bullish soon!

    Originally posted by David
    No sane person without money to burn bought the first generation consumer HD camcorders.
    No sane person without money to burn will buy the first generation consumer 4k/UHD camcorders.

    If anything, most consumer video needs a higher frame rate, not a higher resolution. 4k is gorgeous, and it's always great to future proof your footage, but true (rather than interpolated / made up) 120fps will be along in a couple of years, and that will bring a huge improvement to motion portrayal on modern displays.
    -Cheers, I like that.

    Back in 1980, I have time travel back as my eyes were not opened.
    SD has already became obsolete, and disappeared from the consumer markets of the first world. SD TV systems exist only in the third world countries.

    4K camcorders became consumer category in this year.

    Only 8K camcorders will be high-tech by 2014.
    Last edited by Stears555; 5th Feb 2014 at 06:34.
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