Win 9 to arrive November...maybe

[deadrats]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20140121230820_Microsoft_Might_Launch_Windo...er_Rumour.html

[redwudz]

Now I am very frightened.

[deadrats]

as crazy as it may sound, part of me wonders if we'll look back on Nov of this year and remember it as the point in time when MS took an unrecoverable downturn that caused it to shrink to a fraction of its size.

[usually_quiet]

Hopefully Microsoft has listened to its customers and will redesign the user interface for Windows 9 so it is something that desktop and laptop users will feel more comfortable with.

Microsoft has recovered from releasing other bad products in the past because they had good ones to fall back on while they worked on correcting their mistakes. Windows ME and Windows Vista were failures too. Anybody remember "Microsoft Bob", another product with a user interface that people hated? Microsoft is still selling lots of copies of Windows 7 and has the income from that to tide them over, so I doubt that Microsoft will be unable to recover from Windows 8.1's lack of acceptance.

[jman98]

Industry watchers are more down on Microsoft than ever before. One of their problems is that they rely too much on revenues from Office and Windows. Those will continue to shrink. A lot of people have extremely simplistic computing needs. They just want to read web pages, send email, and watch movies and look at photos. Not much else. Tablets and Chromebooks can meet those needs. I know a few people who use their iPhones alone for that kind of thing. Microsoft has spent far too many years being reactive rather than proactive and they weren't prepared for the shift away from PCs to mobile devices. Other companies that no longer exist in IT operated in a similar way ignoring major industry shifts, like DEC and Sun.

The word I'm hearing is that Microsoft still doesn't think people want old school Windows and while they may make the touch screen/pad part of it less sucky, that's about all you can expect - less sucky.

[nic2k4]

Read about something like that last week, on Windows Supersite. So far it's all rumors, the first public talk about Win 9 would be in April and RTC would be one year later. With a first release in November, it's obvious there isn't going to be as much development as tweaking. Threshold is going to be a matured version of Metro, they really intend on sticking with it and make us swallow it just to prove they were right. In the meantime Microsoft produced some training material (videos and PDF) to help you get used to Win 8.x.

[hech54]

So I'm guessing that 7 is more popular among those who have moved on from XP?
I've had to restore two laptops for friends of friends, one with 7 and one with 8 so that is my only experience with either/both.
I hate laptops so maybe that is a factor in my thinking that they'll pry XP Pro from my cold, dead mid-tower.

[usually_quiet]

Industry watchers are more down on Microsoft than ever before. One of their problems is that they rely too much on revenues from Office and Windows. Those will continue to shrink. A lot of people have extremely simplistic computing needs. They just want to read web pages, send email, and watch movies and look at photos. Not much else. Tablets and Chromebooks can meet those needs. I know a few people who use their iPhones alone for that kind of thing. Microsoft has spent far too many years being reactive rather than proactive and they weren't prepared for the shift away from PCs to mobile devices. Other companies that no longer exist in IT operated in a similar way ignoring major industry shifts, like DEC and Sun.

The word I'm hearing is that Microsoft still doesn't think people want old school Windows and while they may make the touch screen/pad part of it less sucky, that's about all you can expect - less sucky.

Corporate users have been the backbone for Microsoft's business for a long time. Surely Microsoft realizes it also needs to make products that businesses will accept for use on a laptop as well as products for tablets and smartphones. While businesses may find that a tablet or smartphone is a good fit for at least some of their workers, not all employees can manage to do their job today with anything other than a laptop.

I guess everyone but me has a tablet or smartphone, and while they might be fun, I don't have a real need for either of them.

[Tom Saurus]

I hate the looks of Windows 8. I think Microsoft has a great operating system with Windows 7. They should of had a traditional style Windows for the desktop and laptop computers and on their tablets have the OS that is Windows 8. How many of us were demanding that we wanted to swipe our fingers on our screens instead of using the mouse? I have Windows 7 on my i5 computer and because of all retailers marketing the Windows 8 desktop it has killed my desire to have a new computer.

I read that the Business people will most likely upgrade to Windows 7 instead of 8 when Windows XP is no longer updated. It won't hurt Microsoft all that much because it is still a Windows OS. I personally think there should be a firing at Microsoft specifically the person who thought Windows 8 was going to be the cat's meow.

My sister has a Samsung Phone and I put some songs and small videos on it for her to enjoy. With all that scrolling and swiping at times it is hard to find exactly what you want to listen to or watch and that is made all the worse for the tiny screen. So that is one of the things that turns me off Windows 8.

[jagabo]

The real reason Microsoft tried to force the Metro interface onto desktop users was because they wanted all software to be purchased through the Windows Store. That way Microsoft would get a 30 percent cut of all Windows software sold. That gigantic put of gold just blinded them to reality.

[Hoser Rob]

An article in the Economist called windows 8 Microsoft's New Coke. I think that's about right, and it's not going to be as easy to fix things with windows 9 as it was for Coca Cola to just put out the old version again as Classic Coke.

Actually I think it'll probably be an improvement. Microsoft has put out some notable clunkers but they seem to eventually get it right. They're so big they can afford to do so. They're still in the top 10, market cap.

Trying to use a tablet interface on a computer is awful. I was absolutely flabbergasted when I found out they didn't put a proper Start menu on it, with subfolders (scroll, scroll, ...). Making a common interface was pretty stupid. I don't know one single windows 8 user who likes it. And if anything the noobs I know seem to hate it more than the geeks. Apple doesn't use a common interface for computers & devices.

I think there was a reason to use a common interface though, even if misguided. There's one real advantage to using windows devices for some users. Security. I know a couple of consultants who set up customer's other types of devices for work and they have to give them guest accounts.

Actually windows 8 is the reason I bit the bullet and installed linux. I have one remaining windows 7 partition but it's lonely. I'm not going back either. But I think they'll get it eventually.

[ranchhand]

I would say that it is very possible for M/Soft to ship by Nov. All they have to do is use existing W7, cutsey it up with some useless eye-candy that will impress the uninitiated, pop on an option to use the Charms if you so desire, and package it. They will make millions and regain some trust, claiming they "listened" to their "beloved, valued" consumers when all they listened to was the lack of jingle in their moneybag.

[Constant Gardener]

I see Microsoft's troubles as "good enough" problems. XP worked well; barring a few security issues, it's Good Enough. Win7 is better. Win8, once you get used to the interface, is no slouch, but there's no compelling reason to favor it. It is certainly Good Enough. What can MS do to excite us? Same problem with Office. Most versions are Good Enough, and no, I don't want an annual subscription to a new version.

[jman98]

Corporate users have been the backbone for Microsoft's business for a long time. Surely Microsoft realizes it also needs to make products that businesses will accept for use on a laptop as well as products for tablets and smartphones. While businesses may find that a tablet or smartphone is a good fit for at least some of their workers, not all employees can manage to do their job today with anything other than a laptop.

You are quite right that a tablet or smartphone is not for everybody, but wrong in assuming that they realize they need to make products that businesses will accept.

Microsoft has for far too long been run in reactive mode. They wait for the industry to go in a certain direction and join the party late, acting like they have always been there. This has served them well until the massive shift to mobile devices, where it hurt them because they didn't take either market seriously for too long and weren't a major player in that field.

Keep in mind that in the past, Microsoft always had 2 things to fall back on when they made a mistake.
1) They just ignored the problem (ie. Clippy) and pretended it never happened and sucked up the costs associated with it and put out something new that people wanted.
2) Consumers/businesses just bought blindly, so when something sucked (ie. Vista), they just bought the "fix" (Win 7) that came out shortly thereafter.

Changing economic realities and the fact that 99% of consumers are not hard core gamers have led to a situation where people expect their purchases to work for them for longer than a year and they are no longer going to upgrade perfectly good hardware just to get something faster. This means that Microsoft can no longer spend their way out of problems.

But even more than that, I am certain that Microsoft has painted themselves into a corner with Metro and Win 9 is not going to be a return to good ol' Windows so much as a less awful Metro. They understand that they are losing big time in the mobile devices market and they see the benefits to trying to move to one codebase like Apple is sort of doing, so they will continue to pursue this Win 8 and above Metro based OS as their salvation. If anything, I expect them to double down on the bet as revenues on Win 8 and above continue to fall. They'll be in the old "We've already lost too much to give up now" argument and unable to see past it, maybe even producing a Win 9 that people hate even more than Win 8. If you haven't used Win 8 yet and have any technical skills at all, I promise you that you will hate it. Want to know how bad Win 8 is? Do you have a USB flash drive or some kind of disc with photos on it? Put it in a Win 8 PC. Open any photo with the PC, assuming you can even figure out how to do it (it's not as easy as it sounds). Got your photo? Now go to either the previous photo or the one after it - IF you can even figure out how to do so. There's no longer any arrow pointing to the left or right when you look at a photo, so just looking for that is now out. The most trivial of tasks under Win 7 and below has now become a complete and utter user unfriendly nightmare in Win 8.

[usually_quiet]

Want to know how bad Win 8 is? Do you have a USB flash drive or some kind of disc with photos on it? Put it in a Win 8 PC. Open any photo with the PC, assuming you can even figure out how to do it (it's not as easy as it sounds). Got your photo? Now go to either the previous photo or the one after it - IF you can even figure out how to do so. There's no longer any arrow pointing to the left or right when you look at a photo, so just looking for that is now out. The most trivial of tasks under Win 7 and below has now become a complete and utter user unfriendly nightmare in Win 8.

I'm typing on a Windows 8.1 machine right now, which is what most new PCs come with. That is poor example. It is actually not too hard to figure out. The instant I move the mouse by even the slightest amount in any direction, an arrow appears on the left and/or right edges of the Windows 8.1 Photos App.

I'll have to check Windows 8 this evening to see what it does. I haven't upgraded Mom's Windows 8 laptop yet.

The Charms Bar and the Start Screen are what drive most people crazy, although those who are in the habit of decorating their desktop with shortcuts probably like the Start Screen.

[Edit]OK now I remember. With the Windows 8 Photos App, I used to use a "swipe" motion on the laptop touchpad

[Beavis]

Want to know how bad Win 8 is? Do you have a USB flash drive or some kind of disc with photos on it? Put it in a Win 8 PC. Open any photo with the PC, assuming you can even figure out how to do it (it's not as easy as it sounds). Got your photo? Now go to either the previous photo or the one after it - IF you can even figure out how to do so. There's no longer any arrow pointing to the left or right when you look at a photo, so just looking for that is now out. The most trivial of tasks under Win 7 and below has now become a complete and utter user unfriendly nightmare in Win 8.

I'm typing on a Windows 8.1 machine right now, which is what most new PCs come with. That is poor example. It is actually not too hard to figure out. The instant I move the mouse by even the slightest amount in any direction, an arrow appears on the left and/or right edges of the Windows 8.1 Photos App.

This is because the default pic viewer is a metro (ie. always fullscreen) app... You can change it to something like Irfanview or the MS viewer or whatever you want that runs on the desktop (non-Metro) and it works and looks exactly like it would in Windows 7.

[usually_quiet]

Want to know how bad Win 8 is? Do you have a USB flash drive or some kind of disc with photos on it? Put it in a Win 8 PC. Open any photo with the PC, assuming you can even figure out how to do it (it's not as easy as it sounds). Got your photo? Now go to either the previous photo or the one after it - IF you can even figure out how to do so. There's no longer any arrow pointing to the left or right when you look at a photo, so just looking for that is now out. The most trivial of tasks under Win 7 and below has now become a complete and utter user unfriendly nightmare in Win 8.

I'm typing on a Windows 8.1 machine right now, which is what most new PCs come with. That is poor example. It is actually not too hard to figure out. The instant I move the mouse by even the slightest amount in any direction, an arrow appears on the left and/or right edges of the Windows 8.1 Photos App.

This is because the default pic viewer is a metro (ie. always fullscreen) app... You can change it to something like Irfanview or the MS viewer or whatever you want that runs on the desktop (non-Metro) and it works and looks exactly like it would in Windows 7.

Yes, it is possible to choose something else as the default picture viewer. I already made that change on my own PC months ago because I prefer working from the desktop. However I think jman98 was referring to a bug in the version of the Pictures App included with windows 8. I had a chance to try the Windows 8 Pictures App on a file on a CD tonight.

When I used the Pictures App to access a file on a CD, it opened the picture, but wouldn't display the arrow controls for navigation or allow me display any other picture files on the disc from within the App using the scrollwheel on amouse. ...but if I opened a picture in the Pictures Library using the Pictures App, the Pictures App allows navigation to other pictures using the app's arrow control on either side of the screen or the scroll wheel on a mouse.

The bug was fixed in Windows 8.1's version of the Picures App, but I still prefer the old Picture Viewer or another windowed program on the desktop.

[nic2k4]

A better example of bad in Win 8.x, the calculator. Jman98 is right about the app store deal, but I think tablets and smartphones are the way of the future if you keep in mind Moore's law. Cringely has worked out how this might come about (for the interesting bit look for the paragraph that starts with "Deliberate obsolescence" and read through the end).

[usually_quiet]

A better example of bad in Win 8.x, the calculator. Jman98 is right about the app store deal, but I think tablets and smartphones are the way of the future if you keep in mind Moore's law. Cringely has worked out how this might come about (for the interesting bit look for the paragraph that starts with "Deliberate obsolescence" and read through the end).

The Calculator App does sound silly. Fortunately, people who use the Windows 8.x desktop have the familiar Windows 7 calculator available from Windows Accessories.

[redwudz]

I was one of the early adopters of W8. Mainly because my laptop with W7 was having OS problems and that seemed an easy way to fix it. Now I just have W8 and W8.1 problems. First Avast and Comodo firewall wouldn't work. Comodo still doesn't and I gave up and uninstalled it. Avast started working with the latest versions. I never trusted Windows Defender or Windows firewall to protect my PC as neither has ever blocked or stopped a single piece of malware in my experience.

I installed Start8 very soon after I installed W8 so I could actually find some menus and programs without scrolling way...way across the screen. I don't have a touchscreen and I'm wondering why every new computer seems to have W8 installed when it was obviously designed only for touchscreens. I'm sure businesses are 'amused' with the new OS that they didn't want and can't really use. I do a lot of typing and it doesn't work well on a touchscreen. I also disable the touchpad on every laptop I have as soon as I get them and plug in a mouse. Then I don't have to chase the cursor around the screen as I type and hit the touchpad with my thumbs.

I upgraded to W8.1 thinking that would fix some of the problems. No, it made them worse. I think W8.1 does add an application like Start8 to get back the menus, but I still use Start8.

With W8.1, when I type on this forum, every CR for spacing somehow gets a second CR. Now I have four spaces between paragraphs. I gave up trying to fix that. I just go back and edit them out. Could be a IE problem. Smilies no longer work. I have to type them in manually. Uploading photos here doesn't work any more either. No idea why. Works fine with my W7 OSs. A fair number of programs won't run on W8. Don't know why. I suspect some sort of security upgrade problem.

And I do have a tablet PC, a generic 7" Android version. Works well for surfing the net. I liked the Ipad till I saw the price.


Anyway, I won't be installing W8 or 8.1 on any more PCs. I would suggest stocking up on W7 while it's still available.

[Baldrick]

With W8.1, when I type on this forum, every CR for spacing somehow gets a second CR. Now I have four spaces between paragraphs. I gave up trying to fix that. I just go back and edit them out. Could be a IE problem. Smilies no longer work. I have to type them in manually. Uploading photos here doesn't work any more either. No idea why. Works fine with my W7 OSs. A fair number of programs won't run on W8. Don't know why. I suspect some sort of security upgrade problem.

It's a javascript bug in the WYSYWIG-editor that causes the line breaks. Same problem in Chrome. I have disabled it now and just use the standard editor.

[usually_quiet]

With W8.1, when I type on this forum, every CR for spacing somehow gets a second CR. Now I have four spaces between paragraphs. I gave up trying to fix that. I just go back and edit them out. Could be a IE problem. Smilies no longer work. I have to type them in manually. Uploading photos here doesn't work any more either. No idea why. Works fine with my W7 OSs. A fair number of programs won't run on W8. Don't know why. I suspect some sort of security upgrade problem.

I'm not sure the extra CRs is a Windows 8.x problem or an IE problem. I'm also getting extra lines at times using Chrome and Windows 7.

I'm typing this using Windows 8.1 and Chrome. Let's see what happens with line spacing and smileys.

Never mind. Baldrick fixed it.

[usually_quiet]

I was one of the early adopters of W8. Mainly because my laptop with W7 was having OS problems and that seemed an easy way to fix it. Now I just have W8 and W8.1 problems. First Avast and Comodo firewall wouldn't work. Comodo still doesn't and I gave up and uninstalled it. Avast started working with the latest versions. I never trusted Windows Defender or Windows firewall to protect my PC as neither has ever blocked or stopped a single piece of malware in my experience.

I'm using Zone Alarm free with Windows 8.1 now. Comodo's latest free firewall is supposed to work with Windows 8.1, but I don't like its new simplified interface.

You are right about Windows Defender being inadequate. In the past Avast has caused BSODs on my PC because it does not get along with the drivers for my on-board video. Maybe I'll have to try it again.

Anyway, I won't be installing W8 or 8.1 on any more PCs. I would suggest stocking up on W7 while it's still available.

I'm not having as much trouble with Windows 8.1 as you are, but I'm not going to disagree with that advice.

[redwudz]

Thanks, Baldrick. I changed the editor and that seems to cure the extra CR. But smiles still don't work and aren't available unless typed manually. But photo uploads seem to work OK now.

usually_quiet, I tried uninstalling and reinstalling Comodo using different versions and it's still not functional. I will try Zone Alarm Free, though. Thanks.

Never had any problems with Avast, but some anti-malware programs don't get along with some drivers.

[bevills1]

Heck I still prefer Win2k except for the fact new applications or new versions of existing applications no longer support older Windows. About 4 years ago some apps I use began requiring SP3 for WinXP systems, and it's surely just a matter of time before apps require Win7 or later. Unfortunately those of us that have accounting or other programs that require later Windows versions will have to upgrade regardless of whether there's a need for a newer Windows or not, or how undesirable aspects of the new Windows may be. I believe it's just a Microsoft gimmick to get people to keep upgrading to insure their profit line, and the software companies are probably co-conspirators with Microsoft and may even get a reward from Microsoft for stopping support for older Windows versions.

[yoda313]

Heck I still prefer Win2k

Win2k was a great system. However it wasn't very game friendly. I went from win98 to win2000 for a short time before getting xp. Win2000 seemed virtually bulletproof for the era it was in. I don't think I ever reformated that computer unlike the win98 one. That was a about a twice a year reformat job. Xp has been just as good as win2000 and was game friendly to boot.

Though I dropped out of the pc gaming biz as it was too expensive to keep upgrading for the newest games. That was where consoles shined with the long life cycle of the last gen. Being able to play any game for that system and knowing that you'll get the same performance as everyone else is the real benefit of console gaming.

[deadrats]

Win2k was a great system. However it wasn't very game friendly. I went from win98 to win2000 for a short time before getting xp. Win2000 seemed virtually bulletproof for the era it was in. I don't think I ever reformated that computer unlike the win98 one. That was a about a twice a year reformat job. Xp has been just as good as win2000 and was game friendly to boot.

all the NT based windows versions were/are tough; win2k was special because it included a number of built in tools that made it simple to recover a hosed system without re-installing the OS.

but more importantly the NTFS was much more robust that the FAT32, which is another reason that NT based windows were/are so solid.

of all the dos based windows, Me had to be the worst, that damn thing would crash and burn at the drop pf a hat,

but, there was one thing that dos based windows could do that NT based can't and i don't understand why, you could modify the registry and cause dos based windows to use up all the ram before it hit the swap file; NT based systems don't use a swap file they use a page file and will hit it even if there is free ram.

MS then decided to change things with Vista and took the view that free ram was wasted ram so Vista would cache system ram until an app needed it, the theory being that somehow this would be faster, but that didn't work all that well.

they tweaked this model considerably with Win 7.

[sohaibrazzaq]

I am a happy Win 7 user, my current Windows installation dates back to September 13, 2011 on my main home desktop PC. It is still extremely stable and I have'nt found any compatibility issues with it whatsoever considering the amounts of software's and applications I have installed/uninstalled over 2 and a half year of my OS lifespan so far. I am a hardcore gamer and I have a dedicated HDD installed just for my installed games and its current size is 1.3 TB full. That being said I don't find a need for ditching my perfectly running OS for a newer Win 8 or Win 9 in the future unless I just have to because of some software/hardware incompatibility.

I haven't installed Win 8 on any of my owned PC's/Laptops but I did get the chance of checking it thoroughly before and after 8.1 update and like many others I wasn't impressed from it to say the least. I did receive a free Win 8 professional key from my institution but its still residing in my email box un-activated/unclaimed. One of the main reason I didn't install Win 8 besides small inconveniences is that it doesn't support Win XP Mode which is my necessity for various older applications and I can't live without it. Its obvious Win 8 was developed with smartphones/tablets in mind as their main targeted machines and I have no intention of installing it on my perfectly working desktop even though I have a dell 27 inches touch supported led monitor. And I am afraid Win 9 isn't going to change my mind either. I used Win XP for a very longtime and guess its going to be the same with Win 7.

[usually_quiet]

I will probably try Windows 9 if there is a preview. If the upgrade from 8.1 is free and I can still use Media Center, I might even upgrade to it from Windows 8.1, but I will still keep my Windows 7 licenses.

[suelaine]

I use computers every day, extensively for both work and play. My work involves requirements to use Windows and MS based products. I do not like the interface of Windows 8 or 8.1 and I absolutely consider them less user friendly and intuitive to use than previous versions of Windows. I have also found successive versions of MS Office less user friendly than some of the previous versions. I do not understand the logic of this. The Interface for users should be the easiest part to design. I think there are many areas where Windows 8/8.1 is superior to previous versions of Windows and that would be just fine if they change the Interface to make it similar and user friendly as compared to previous versions, whether the user is using a touch screen or not.

At first I REALLY hated Windows 8 when I got a new laptop with it last year. I feel I can adjust to a less user friendly interface far easier than "most" users, I just wonder why? I teach online and I have students who tell me their issues when installing a new program (such as Visual Basic) on their new Windows 8 laptop. They can't find it in their program list so they think it is not compatible with Windows 8. It is, but they just don't know how to find all their installed programs. I don't think there should be such a high learning curve for typical computer users who simply buy a new Windows PC or laptop.

I use a program called Classic Shell which makes the Interface mostly like what I was used to before. I have figured out how to get around with Windows 8 but I still choose to continue using Classic Shell. It is just nicer to use. I was really disheartened with Microsoft when I discovered the new Windows 8, but I have mellowed some for two reasons, both of them are admittedly biased reasons.

First of all, my husband got me a MS Surface Pro 2 for Christmas. Of course it has 8.1 on it (and I added Classic Shell). I'm typing on it right now and I absolutely love this thing. I am even going to try video editing on it one of these days (generally I prefer my big desktop and 23 inch screen) with Windows 7. But I know this little tablet/PC combo can do the job of video editing.

Second, my oldest daughter has started a new job working for Microsoft as a researcher and programmer. I still think the Interface is unnecessarily clunky and not user friendly for those who actually NEED to use computer for more than watching Youtube videos and surfing the Internet.