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  1. this is the information that I have after converting the file & using mediainfo

    General
    Complete name : C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\UK vs UL #2 2013 - DVRMS.dvr-ms
    Format : Windows Media
    File size : 3.57 GiB
    Duration : 32mn 56s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 15.5 Mbps
    Maximum Overall bit rate : 160 Mbps
    Movie name : WLKY News at 6:00PM
    Thanks to : ;;;
    Genre : News;General;Other
    Original/Released date : 0
    Encoded date : UTC 2014-01-10 23:36:40.672
    Cover : Y
    WM/MediaStationCallSign : WLKYDT
    WM/MediaStationName : WLKYDT (WLKY-DT)
    WM/MediaNetworkAffiliation : CBS Affiliate
    WM/MediaOriginalChannel : 32
    WM/MediaOriginalChannelSubNumber : 1
    WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime : 0001-01-01T00:00:00Z
    WM/MediaOriginalRunTime : 19772160000
    WM/MediaIsStereo : No
    WM/MediaIsRepeat : No
    WM/MediaIsLive : No
    WM/MediaIsTape : No
    WM/MediaIsDelay : No
    WM/MediaIsSubtitled : No
    WM/MediaIsMovie : No
    WM/MediaIsPremiere : No
    WM/MediaIsFinale : No
    WM/MediaIsSAP : No
    WM/MediaIsSport : No
    Provider : MediaCenterDefault
    WM/VideoClosedCaptioning : No
    WM/WMRVEncodeTime : 635238684027840000
    WM/WMRVSeriesUID : !GenericSeries!WLKY News at 6:00PM
    WM/WMRVServiceID : !MCService!28459490
    WM/WMRVProgramID : !MCProgram!196832513
    WM/WMRVRequestID : 0
    WM/WMRVScheduleItemID : 0
    WM/WMRVQuality : 3
    WM/WMRVOriginalSoftPrePadding : 420
    WM/WMRVOriginalSoftPostPadding : 180
    WM/WMRVHardPrePadding : 4294966996
    WM/WMRVHardPostPadding : 0
    WM/WMRVATSCContent : Yes
    WM/WMRVDTVContent : Yes
    WM/WMRVHDContent : No
    WM/WMRVEndTime : 635238703804790000
    WM/WMRVBitrate : 4625034078611064452
    WM/WMRVKeepUntil : 4294967295
    WM/WMRVActualSoftPrePadding : 297
    WM/WMRVActualSoftPostPadding : 180
    WM/WMRVContentProtected : No
    WM/WMRVContentProtectedPercent : 0
    WM/WMRVExpirationDate : 4703607668705591271
    WM/WMRVExpirationSpan : 9223372036854775807
    WM/WMRVInBandRatingSystem : 255
    WM/WMRVInBandRatingLevel : 255
    WM/WMRVInBandRatingAttributes : 0
    WM/WMRVWatched : No
    WM/MediaThumbType : 3
    WM/MediaThumbWidth : 352
    WM/MediaThumbHeight : 198
    WM/MediaThumbStride : 1056
    WM/MediaThumbRet : 0
    WM/MediaThumbRatingSystem : 255
    WM/MediaThumbRatingLevel : 255
    WM/MediaThumbRatingAttributes : 0
    WM/MediaThumbAspectRatioX : 16
    WM/MediaThumbAspectRatioY : 9
    WM/MediaThumbTimeStamp : 13830554455654793216

    Video
    ID : 2
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@High
    Format settings, BVOP : No
    Format settings, Matrix : Custom
    Codec ID : DVR
    Codec ID/Hint : ASF
    Duration : 32mn 56s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 14.9 Mbps
    Maximum bit rate : 65.0 Mbps
    Width : 1920 pixels
    Height : 1080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Variable
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Nominal frame rate : 59.940 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Top Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.239
    Time code of first frame : 09:18:52;15
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    Stream size : 3.42 GiB (96%)
    Language : English (US)

    now if I can get the next step in this project
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  2. Banned
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    Originally Posted by bnewt View Post
    this is the information that I have after converting the file & using mediainfo

    ...............
    ...............

    Frame rate mode : Variable
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Nominal frame rate : 59.940 fps
    If indeed you actually have a variable frame rate recording, your project is in serious trouble. I have seen some very long discussions and heavy-duty coding wherein some people claim that variable frame rate can be repaired, but I've never seen it work. Others might chime in here, but hopefully mediainfo is mis-reporting the frame rate. Or perhaps you used the wrong settings for the file conversion.

    Why are your posts colored red and difficult to read?
    .
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:52.
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  3. what should the frame rate be?
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  4. Banned
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    The specs for BluRay and AVCHD standard HD and SD files and discs: https://www.videohelp.com/hd#tech

    The standards and other info for BluRay, AVCHD, and DVD are linked in the side panel in the upper left-hand corner of the web page you're viewing now.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:52.
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  5. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Originally Posted by bnewt View Post
    this is the information that I have after converting the file & using mediainfo

    ...............
    ...............

    Frame rate mode : Variable
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Nominal frame rate : 59.940 fps
    If indeed you actually have a variable frame rate recording, your project is in serious trouble. I have seen some very long discussions and heavy-duty coding wherein some people claim that variable frame rate can be repaired, but I've never seen it work. Others might chime in here, but hopefully mediainfo is mis-reporting the frame rate. Or perhaps you used the wrong settings for the file conversion.
    Is there anything that I can do to correct the problem?
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    First, check your wtv file converter settings. As far as I've read, VFR (variable frame rate) can't be corrected without getting poor output. Other members here might have some experience with that, but in a discussion posted a short while ago it was a big hassle and the outcome wasn't satisfactory.

    Of course it's also possible that the original wtv was recorded that way.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:53.
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  7. If this is US OTA TV capture, likely you could put it on a BD and many blu-ray players will play it.
    I have with a pany 310 with both the 1080i and 720p varieties.
    I haven't tried the 480i OTA variety so don't know if a player could play it.

    If you want to edit US OTA files, get VideoRedo, that is what I used...or if free and know what you are doing, Avidemux can work.

    Edit: This is with equipment that doesn't change the OTA streams, only records what is broadcast.
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    You have a player that will play variable frame rate 1080i .wtf format that's burned to a BD disc? Or is it that VideoRedo and/or Avidemux can convert such a file to something playable on BD disk? If so, the O.P. would like to know how it's done.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:53.
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  9. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    You have a player that will play variable frame rate 1080i .wtf format that's burned to a BD disc? Or is it that VideoRedo and/or Avidemux can convert such a file to something playable on BD disk? If so, the O.P. would like to know how it's done.
    LOL... now that's funny
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  10. I authored US OTA 720P and 1080i to blu-ray disc, not changing anything AFA the video and audio was concerned.
    It plays fine...not fully strictly compliant but it plays fine.
    My pany 310 is an old bd player too, I suppose newer players would be even more likely not to adhere to strict compliance.

    The iview 3500 (perhaps other OTA devices too) can capture the broadcast stream...that is it doesn't encode anything, only
    records it so nothing is changed from the raw stream.

    So I didn't convert anything, I only authored it to BD disc.

    Though I don't know anything about the device he is using and whether he is in US or not.

    Really though it is easier to play it from hard drives...which is what I do.
    Last edited by Steve(MS); 13th Jan 2014 at 01:28.
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    Originally Posted by PartingShot View Post
    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    You have a player that will play variable frame rate 1080i .wtf format that's burned to a BD disc? Or is it that VideoRedo and/or Avidemux can convert such a file to something playable on BD disk? If so, the O.P. would like to know how it's done.
    LOL... now that's funny
    yes, actually, it was. And with more formats coming along every day, don't be surprised at wtf shows up next.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:53.
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    You have a player that will play variable frame rate 1080i .wtf format that's burned to a BD disc? Or is it that VideoRedo and/or Avidemux can convert such a file to something playable on BD disk? If so, the O.P. would like to know how it's done.
    I authored US OTA 720P and 1080i to blu-ray disc, not changing anything AFA the video and audio was concerned.
    It plays fine...not fully strictly compliant but it plays fine.
    My pany 310 is an old bd player too, I suppose newer players would be even more likely not to adhere to strict compliance.

    The iview 3500 (perhaps other OTA devices too) can capture the broadcast stream...that is it doesn't encode anything, only
    records it so nothing is changed from the raw stream.

    So I didn't convert anything, I only authored it to BD disc.

    I know it works, now WTF to you know about this?

    Though I don't know anything about the device he is using and whether he is in US or not.

    Really though it is easier to play it from hard drives...which is what I do.
    I didn't know, which is why I asked. Sorry to put you on the spot for info. I apologize for dragging you out of your cave..
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:53.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    First, check your wtv file converter settings.
    I guess you have either never used Windows 7's built-in .WTV to .DVR-MS converter or are having some fun at the OP's expense. There are no settings, and it merely moves the audio and video from one container to the other without changing them.
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    Thanks for the info on the converter. So apparently BluRay and other HD video can work with variable frame rates thru many players and TV's and other devices. So much for standards.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 08:53.
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  15. nt
    Last edited by Steve(MS); 13th Jan 2014 at 01:23.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Thanks for the info on the converter. So apparently BluRay and other HD video can work with variable frame rates thru many players and TV's and other devices. So much for standards.
    I am not convinced that the OP's file actually uses variable frame rates for video, but if it does, maybe it isn't significant. The ATSC broadcast standard for 1080i only allows 29.970 frames per seconds or 30 frames per second.

    All I can say is that I have made dozens of recordings from a CBS affiliate broadcasting at 1080i that I played using a Blu-Ray player. I never examined them for variable frame rates or other flaws that might cause them not to play since I never had a problem playing them. However, I don't author my recordings, since the Blu-Ray player has the ability to play media files from optical discs and USB 2.0 storage devices. I can't say if an authoring program would have rejected any of them.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Jan 2014 at 14:33.
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  17. It isn't variable frame rate but the bit rate is variable.
    The tx file shows the 1080i, 720p and 480i variety.
    There are things that make it not BD Compliant.
    Image Attached Files
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    It isn't variable frame rate but the bit rate is variable.
    The tx file shows the 1080i, 720p and 480i variety.
    There are things that make it not BD Compliant.
    Maybe my brain and my eyes are too tired today and I'm missing something obvious, but I'm not seeing problems with respect to Blu-Ray in the reports you posted. ATSC closed captions aren't part of the Blu-Ray spec, but their presence shouldn't be a problem. Variable bit rate video is allowed. CBR audio is standard. I don't see it in the posted reports, but if it were present, VBR audio is now permitted too. See https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/313770-Why-are-professional-dvds-and-bluray-s-using...=1#post1939789 Cornucopia would know.

    Variable bit rate audio would cause problems with VideoReDo Plus and probably some other favorite editors. The manual for VideoReDo Plus says: "Audio Frame Errors can also occur if the audio characteristics such as bit rate or sampling rate change in the middle of a program. In this case, the editor will not be able to recover." I remember someone reporting that kind of error when editing some programs that were recorded from Fox.
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  19. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    It isn't variable frame rate but the bit rate is variable.
    The tx file shows the 1080i, 720p and 480i variety.
    There are things that make it not BD Compliant.
    Maybe my brain and my eyes are too tired today and I'm missing something obvious, but I'm not seeing problems with respect to Blu-Ray in the reports you posted.
    It did show 80 Mb/s max for the video bitrate. But I wouldn't rely on MediaInfo reports.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    It isn't variable frame rate but the bit rate is variable.
    The tx file shows the 1080i, 720p and 480i variety.
    There are things that make it not BD Compliant.
    Maybe my brain and my eyes are too tired today and I'm missing something obvious, but I'm not seeing problems with respect to Blu-Ray in the reports you posted.
    It did show 80 Mb/s max for the video bitrate. But I wouldn't rely on MediaInfo reports.
    Yes, if it were true that would be a problem. 40 Mb/s is the max allowed for Blu-Ray.
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  21. Bitrate Viewer is a more reliable check for video bitates.
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  22. usually_quiet, it was about 6 months ago when I authored some OTA material to BD.
    I don't remember the particulars that I thought might have not been strictly BD compliant but there were some questions in my mind about
    the variable gop and I think the 1920x1080x29.97i isn't in BD but in AVCHD.
    The 720p looks closer to compliance but I don't know much about technical info, I just tried it out on 1080i and 720p and it worked with my BD player.

    About VideoRedo editing, I didn't do a bunch with it so it could in fact have problems so I wouldn't know for sure.
    I am trying to remember from memory...when I was using Avidemux, I would only cut on "I" frames, used "copy" on A/V.
    exported as MPEG TS Muxer.
    Then I went to the trouble of demuxing using tsmuxer then placed video/audio streams individually back in tsmuxer to author
    to BD.
    I made sure I cut off a little off each in as there was a delay in the audio.

    The main reason I didn't pursue it further was at that time, only multiavchd could author a menu(freeware without re-encoding).
    If it were to do it now, I would again experiment with VideoRedo and Avidemux to see which would work best.
    With VideoRedo, I think it would re-wrap to m2ts...so no middle step is needed.
    With Avidemux, it would need to be re-wrapped from ts to m2ts then authored with a menu.
    I think personally I would take the various m2ts titles and let BDRebuilder produce a simple menu....I wish I had that authoring function back then.

    Since I now have a 2nd BD player, if I can find those tests from 6 months ago, I'll see if they will play in the LG BPM33.

    Edit(add)
    I found the tests and they play fine in the LG player as well.
    Last edited by Steve(MS); 12th Jan 2014 at 22:52.
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    usually_quiet, it was about 6 months ago when I authored some OTA material to BD.
    I don't remember the particulars that I thought might have not been strictly BD compliant but there were some questions in my mind about
    the variable gop and I think the 1920x1080x29.97i isn't in BD but in AVCHD.
    The 720p looks closer to compliance but I don't know much about technical info, I just tried it out on 1080i and 720p and it worked with my BD player.
    1920x1080x29.97i is allowed for Blu-Ray and AVCHD, according to VideoHelp's "What is Blu-Ray". I suspect both the AVCHD spec and the Blu-Ray spec allow fixed or variable GOP lengths too, but I couldn't find a reference for that.
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  24. Ok, that is fine with me and per my edit in the above reply, I found the test discs that I had made and they play fine in the LG player.
    Of course I would have no idea if discs would play in all BD players.
    Yet we now know that it is possible to make bd discs and they can play in at least some players from US OTA material.

    I did use VideoRedo with some of those edits, taking out commercials.
    I didn't see any problems with those edits but I didn't play them all the way through and watch them closely.
    If VideoRedo does work for this, it would be the ideal tool to use since it has smart render and can rewrap to m2ts in order
    to later author material to BD without intermediate work.
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  25. OK guys........I guess if I am reading everything correctly......these recordings will be able to be played in some/most blu ray players.

    Now, what is the next step that I need to take to make this happen., keeping in mind that I would like to remove the commercials if possible, and also maintain the 5.1 audio. Is there a preferable format to convert these recordings?

    I have also noticed that some talke about removing some programming from the beginning & the end. Is this required? What is the purpose of this?
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  26. What the hell did you record the OTA with?
    Whatever it is it shouldn't re-encode it...if it does you will have lower quality.

    Provided that what you are getting hasn't been re-encoded, you can see if VideoRedo can edit your files.
    Right now, I am unsure if VideoRedo will work, it seemed to work for me but I was only running some tests.
    Set the output from VideoRedo to M2ts.
    You don't want VideoRedo to do any re-encoding.

    Then with the m2ts files, you will need something that will author.
    For simple author without menu, tsmuxer is the ideal software (for a single file to disc).

    For menus, I personally would try BDRebuilder but MultiAVCHD should be able to generate a menu also.
    Making a multi-titled menu is something that I haven't tried yet OTA raw material.
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    Originally Posted by bnewt View Post
    I have also noticed that some talke about removing some programming from the beginning & the end. Is this required? What is the purpose of this?
    It is not required, but many people do indeed trim away anything at the beginning and end of a recording that is not a part of the TV program that they want to keep.

    You really could not figure out that the reason they would do this is to save space or to remove an annoyance?


    Originally Posted by bnewt View Post
    OK guys........I guess if I am reading everything correctly......these recordings will be able to be played in some/most blu ray players.
    Yes, a Blu-Ray player should be able to play your recorded TV shows, as authored Blu-Ray discs. Nobody here can say for certain if your Blu-Ray player can play media files burned as data discs or not since we don't know its model number. You will have to figure that out on your own. I'm done asking.
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