VCR/Hi8 capture tests; help evaluate?

[dianedebuda]

Testing hardware I already have for home movie VHS/Hi8 conversions with a test VHS 30 sec clip from a HD movie.

Capture hardware:
ATI 550 pci, Athlon 64, 2 GB mem, XP Pro SP2, ATI CMC (can't find MMC 9.04 that may work with 550/650)
ATI 650 pci, Athlon 64x2, 2 GB mem, XP Pro SP2, ATI CMC
ATI AIW Radeon 32, Athlon 64, 2 GB mem, XP Pro SP2, ATI MMC 9.02, VirtualDub, HuffyUV
Hauppauge HD PVR

Clips (4 mpg2, 1 ts, 2 avi)
550 cmc ATI CMC, 720x480 mpg2, quality=best (little control with CMC; can't find mmc 9.04 to work with 550/650)
650 cmc ATI CMC, 720x480 mpg2, quality=best (see light/dark flashes - assume this is reported overactive, uncontrollable AGC)
AIW mmc 720x480 mpg2, Variable, Max 9, Target 8, Motion 99, No Soap
AIW mmc 720x480 mpg2, Variable, Max 9, Target 8, Motion 99, Heavy Soap: Combo Filter 1 62%, Despeckle 68% (verifying "can do" filters w/o dropping frames)

HD PVR 720x480 h.264 ts, Variable, Target 8 (seems lighter than other mpgs)

AIW mmc 640x480 avi, HuffyUV (really want mpg or ts, but testing avi in case I need to do editing later; don't see 720x480 for mmc)
AIW VirualDub, 720x480 avi, HuffyUV

AIW mmc 640x480 avi, UYVY (780MB - don't think worth posting; looks good to me; noting that I've tried these)
AIW VirtuaLDub 720x480 avi, UYVY (854MB)

FWIW: changed ID from msdiane to dianedebuda since that's what I usually use elsewhere.

Now that I've recovered from my "can't view mpg Win7/8" panic attack, would appreciate comments of what looks good/bad to help select hardware/software to use "for real".

[jagabo]

What you really need is a new VCR. The current one is creating terrible oversharpening halos.

What version of Huffyuv are you using? Huffyuv 2.1.1, Huffyuv 2.2.0, and ffdshow all cannot decompress your files properly.

[Brad]

The AIW is cropping and stretching the picture a bit compared to the others. With that one, capture at 704x480 unless you're planning to stick it straight onto a Blu-ray. I wouldn't use the "Soap" features myself.

The 650 has blurred vertical detail, and I think motion trails, from noise reduction. You should be able to disable it in the device's settings.

The HD PVR isn't even coming close to hitting your target bitrate. It's only 2.6Mbps, and it's smoothing over some details as well.

[dianedebuda]

jagabo, can you point me to somewhere for a visual definition of "oversharpening halos"? I also have a Sony HiFi VCR that I can try which is supposed to be better than the JVC HiFi one that I used for the tests. It's actually the one used to record the test clip. Can rebuild clips for all or however many you think is enough. A lot of this exercise is seeing if my equipment is up to par and if not, identify weaknesses vs a subjective analysis of cost benefit. Figured up front that not having a prosumer VCR & no TBC were potential issues.

Using Huffy 2.1.1.

vaporeon800, what I plan is to cut into logical segments and keep on (multiple) hdds. Will burn to dvds only as 3rd backups, probably not as authored dvds. I will make another test with 704x480. Thought those were supposed to be hard to edit; I have MPG Video Wizard & VideoReDo. Tried Soap with heavy filter settings mostly to see if I could do it with current equipment w/o losing frames. Thought the image looked blurred. Noticed the low rate for the HD PVR after seeing what I consider to be faded captures. Will try again with higher settings to see if it makes a difference. Use HD PVRs all the time now for HD stuff.

The CMC software that I'm using for the 550/650 has absolutely no user control over settings - just Best, Better, etc. I've googled enough to see that there was supposed to be a MMC 9.04 that some folks claim worked, but it was never posted on the ATI site, just on some early 550 install cds. The folks over at LordSmurf's site are trying to hunt one up, but it's going to be tough and I'm not holding my breath. Will start checking for other software that works with the 550. Saw a light/dark flicker using PowerDVD 10 on the original 15 min 550/650 tests. Macrovision style? Don't see that now with the 550, but still noticable with the 650. Didn't see the problem at all with other players. Right now the 550 seems to be best to me, but not having any control worries me and, being a novice, I'm probably not identifying correctable problems.

I was going to try my Polaroid 2001g as both a capture device and pass-through, but it didn't power on. Visual inspection shows leaked caps. Read that it wasn't all that great, so will probably let it die unless there's a good reason to make a repair attempt with new caps.

My dozen or so VHS home movies were made in the real early days of VCR. Big, bulky RCA camera that was connected to a variety of VCRs. Most of my tapes are Hi8. Will be doing more tests for those. If my existing capture devices are not adequate, may buy something else. If it's just the VCR for the VHS tapes, will do my best with what I have, and if that's not good enough for us, will send them off to the pros.

Truly appreciate your time and hand-holding.

[jagabo]

jagabo, can you point me to somewhere for a visual definition of "oversharpening halos"?

Look at the bright band between the guy's chin/neck and the sky in the background. At the other side of his head you can see light and dark halos as the picture transitions from light background to his darker head. VHS is an inherently low resolution format so many players try to sharpen the picture during playback. The result is usually halos like this. They are hard to get rid of so it's best to use a player that doesn't generate them in the first place. If you want to sharpen the picture you can do much better in software. Also disable the any sharpening filters of your capture device. They are usually ineffective for VHS capture -- just increasing the noise. And turn off any noise filtering (except 2d or 3d comb filters for removing dot crawl artifacts) as you can do much better in software.

I guess the issue is how much time and effort you want to invest. If you only want to quickly capture and write to a DVD, without doing any processing, you'll want to use software that encodes directly to MPEG and adjust the capture device's and software's settings to get the best picture you can while capturing. But you will only get mediocre quality. If that's all you want you're better off getting a standalone DVD recorder. It's much easier and will give you similar, even better, results.

If you're willing to invest the time learning how to process your video you can get significantly better quality capturing with a lossless codec like Huffyuv, filtering, then converting to MPEG 2 for DVD. If you're willing to spend money -- get a good S-VHS deck with built in line TBC, or try using a DVD recorder with a line TBC function as a passthrough. Ie, pass the composite or s-video signal through the DVD recorder (without using it to record to DVD) to the capture card.

Using Huffy 2.1.1.

That's what I have installed but I can't get either of your huffyuv files to display correctly:

[dianedebuda]

Couldn't ask for more perfect description of halo. Now I see it. Everywhere. Obviously I don't have a video editor's eye. Need to learn what to look for. Made new clips with Sony and I see it there too.

So an sVHS player has a better chance of removing those? LordSmurf has a number of models listed & I did price spot checks a month or so ago. For 12 or so tapes, problably close to break even point vs. sending to pros. Dunno. Hope my sample recording has some relevance to my "real" ones. HD cable source was a lot better than what I would have gotten off the camera. And either of these VCRs are younger/better than the recorders originally used.

My Huffy clips play on my XP capture boxes with PowerDVD 6 and WMP 9; get close to what you're seeing with VLC 1.1.5 on that box. Codec is listed by MMC as "Huffyuv v2.1.1 - CCESP Patch v0.2.2". Might be user error with VirtualDub. Tried to follow a LordSmurf "capture AVI" guide for VD, but it's not for my version, 1.9.11 (downloaded with filters from LS's site). Helpful, but for a newbie, new terms plus things in different places are confusing. No disrespect intended. Guess I need a VD for Dummies.

As for commitment, I want to get the videos off the tapes now, before they degrade further & equipment is hard to find. I was thinking of aiming for the best mpg2 I could reasonably get without spending tons of $ PLUS getting an avi version that could be worked on as time, energy & education permitted. Just hope the tapes wll stand up to multiple passes. Like I said, limited number of VHS tapes, but lots of Hi8. May well end up having to "pro" the VHS, but willing to spend some $ for equipment for the Hi8 processing. As for learning, I'm basically a geek to start with...

New captures basically same as orig AIW (JVC) posted ones. 720 -->704; JVC/Sony VCRs. One VCR any better than other? VHS test tape was recorded on the Sony.

[Brad]

If your goal is to have an AVI version along with your MPEGs, capture AVI once and encode from that rather than doing two separate captures.

The Sony looks better to me. While they both have halos, the Sony at least looks sharper. Which model is it? There may be a setting to dial back the sharpness.

Your Hi8s shouldn't take as much money or effort to look good since it's higher quality to begin with.

[dianedebuda]

The Sony looked better to me too. The 720 looked a bit better than the 704, but not by much. Not sure I "see" the stretching you talked about.

Checked again for S-VHS recorders on LordSmurf's list and this time found one that didn't cost $250-$800. JVC HR-S7500U. Not one of the elite, but looks like it'll be better than what I've got and it has svideo which ours do not. Ordered it. Hopefully it'll work.

Have forgotten a lot, but used to regularly capture with MMC back in the W2K days, so a little familiarity there. VirtualDub is new territory & I'm not comfortable yet that I'm getting the huffyuv avi right - particularly when jagabo says he can't play my clip even though we're using the same version. Thus the reason for the 2 versions: mpg2 & avi.

You recommended mpc-hc to me a month or so ago when I was looking for a player that I could multi-instance. Not as good as PowerDVD, but it's really helped. I do want to thank you.

[dianedebuda]

Got the JVC HR-S7500U in & building more test clips. May be way it's setup (just using what was there for 1st pass), but the Sony is still looking better. Got to download the JVC's manual...

Still not getting the Huffyuv clips to play anywhere but on the box they were recorded on. Really sounds a lot like a problem LordSmurf was having a few days ago. So I'm thinking I'd better reinstall Huffy. Recommended version?

I've been doing tests of this VHS tape in all kinds of variations, including using my TRV480. When I post, better to add to this or create new thread?

vaporeon800, I thought it was you that pointed me towards mpc-hc, but it was actually hello_hello. Still really glad for the refer.

[Brad]

I use Huffyuv-MT (which coexists with non-multithreaded versions).

I say just add the new ones to this thread.

[dianedebuda]

Googling makes me wonder if MMC has changed something about using Huffy. Think will try a system w/o MMC.

One thing I'm puzzled about: MediaInfo reports my latest CMC/550 test as 17.3 Mbps, CMC/650 as 8 480 Kbps, MMC 9.02/AIW as 7 798 Kbps. Don't have any control over CMC and using same for both 550 & 650. Wonder why there's such a big difference? The 550, at double the rate, seems to be giving best results so far. Thought a rate max of about 8 was high for VHS & higher was mostly noise. Don't think I can even set MMC to anything close to what the 550 seems to be using.
Edit: Maybe CMC is not using Variable bit rate?

Looking over the JVC HR-S7500U manual. Big features seem to be video stabilizer & TBC/NR, mutually exclusive. Default is TBC/NR on. Also available is Digital R3, normally on. Sound like a good place to start?

[dianedebuda]

Round 2: orig jvc vcr removed from test; replaced by another jvc (jvcs). These clips are from actual tapes.
Purpose: select player/settings and capture device/settings.

vcr: Sony SLV-N60 and JVC HR-S7500U. Tested Sony (composite only) with APC on/off & Sharping levels 1-4; JVC with composite/svideo, TBC/NR on/off, R3 on/off. Can't decide between these two; some tests I prefer the Sony - looks better/sharper; others the JVC significantly decreases halos/color bleeds and cleans edges.
capture device: ATI AIW Radeon 32 AGP, ATI 550 pci, and (for dv) Sony TRV480. Tested TRV480 with TBC on/off, DNR on/off; Guide for Sony camcorders suggested DNR off & my tests agreed, so DNR off in all these tests. TBC seemed weak and didn't seem to do much except fade the image. Generally like the DVs from the TRV480, but images look faded compared to avi captures; since dv lossy, don't know how much post processing can be done. Ok, what's the proper term for faded image? Wonder if later vintage AIW would be any better.

capture software:
(avi = Primary) Huffyuv v2.1.1 - CCESP Patch v0.2.2, LordSmurf's VirtualDub 1.9 YUY2; used default proc amp settings; couldn't get vdub histogram to display
(mpg = test/benchmark) ATI CMC 1.0.1829.
(dv: test for vhs/hi8, Primary for Digital8) WinDV

System: XP sp2 on Athlon64 for capture, Win7 Pro on apu 6500K for processing.
Monitor: 25" lcd, 65" hdtv (primary), hd projector. These are all connected to PCs.
Target output: hdd/pc players. May do mpg or h.264 someday.

Clips (1 mpg2, 3 DV avi, 3 huffyuv avi )
550 cmc ATI CMC, 720x480 mpg2, quality=best
AIW VirtualDub, 720x480 avi, HuffyUV
vcr settings in clip name

[Brad]

Ooo, now this is my idea of a good time! I'll post a more detailed response later.

Ok, what's the proper term for faded image?

I was going to guess desaturated before I had downloaded the clips, but it's a combination of higher brightness, lower contrast, and slightly lower saturation.

These aren't the settings I would actually use, but to illustrate the point I attempted to match the DV clip to the 550 with ColorYUV(off_y=-20,gain_y=12,cont_u=32,cont_v=32).

used default proc amp settings; couldn't get vdub histogram to display

Did you try the various tricks advised in Oldretiredguy's thread? It seems to heavily depend on your particular graphics system.

[dianedebuda]

How exciting; can hardly tell the difference color-wise. Are the illustrations using vdub or some other tool? Have only looked at the avi capture part of vdub so far. Want to learn how to interprete your illustrations.

If they're of any use, I have the vcr & capture device tests with all the setting variations using the orig test tape.

Did you try the various tricks advised in Oldretiredguy's thread?

Not yet. Want to go back to orig test tape to experiment. Hoped to be at oldretiredguy's level of processing before he comes back. Hopefully he will show up soon. If so, I'll drop a note there to say how much following his efforts have helped me. He was sounding a bit discouraged in his last posts.

[Brad]

It's a combination of visualizations that I like. Do you have Avisynth installed (preferably the 2.6 alpha)? Place the contents of the attached ZIP into the Avisynth\plugins directory and make a .avs text file with the following:

V1 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, 550 vdub clip1.avi").AlignExplode("ATI 550",0,0,1,0)
V3 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi").ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true).ColorYUV(off_y=-20,gain_y=12,cont_u=32,cont_v=32).AlignExplode("Sony TRV480",0,0,0,1)

Interleave(V1,V3)

[jagabo]

Here's an explanation of waveform monitor graphs (Histogram and VideoScope in AviSynth):

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/340804-colorspace-conversation-elaboration?p=212156...=1#post2121568

This little animation might help. Unpack the two files and open GreyRamp.AVS with VirtualDub (AviSynth must be installed).

[jagabo]

The top right corner of vaporeon800's images are the chroma channels converted to greyscale. In YUV video the luma (Y) channel represents a greyscale image and the two chroma channels (U and V) represent color information -- colors that are added or subtracted from the greyscale image.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

[dianedebuda]

Ok, added to: 1) get a handle on proc amp sliders as video terms, not as generally used, 2) install graphedit for real-time control of proc amp values, 3) experiment to get capture histogram working, 4) explore vdub basics (beyond capture), 5) install avisynth, 6) valium.

[Brad]

The Graphedit thing actually isn't needed; just access the controls from Video -> Levels (hotkey: L) instead of the property page and VirtualDub will let you play with them to your heart's content while displaying live video.

[dianedebuda]

Perfect.

[jagabo]

The Graphedit thing actually isn't needed; just access the controls from Video -> Levels (hotkey: L) instead of the property page and VirtualDub will let you play with them to your heart's content while displaying live video.

That's never worked for me.

[Brad]

Weird. I haven't encountered any problems using it with any of my capture devices.

[jagabo]

I always used to get "No video level control available with this capture driver" with the devices I used. But if it works with your capture device, use it.

[Brad]

I only get that with the ATI 750, but its Proc Amp controls are also all greyed out on the GraphEdit page. (Only the VC500's software can manipulate the 750's controls, somehow...)

[Brad]

One VHS issue you're going to want to fix post-capture, which I had never heard of until reading a random post yesterday, is that your hue differs between the odd and even fields (each is recorded and played by its own corresponding video head). Half of the fields are green-tinted and the others are more pinkish.

Okay, so JVC HR-S7500U.

V1 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, 550 vdub clip1.avi").ColorYUV(off_y=7,gain_y=-15,cont_u=-38,cont_v=-38).AlignExplode("ATI 550",0,0,1,0)
V2 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, aiw vdub clip1.avi").ColorYUV(off_y=4,gain_y=-36,cont_u=-38,cont_v=-38).LanczosResize(714,480).AddBorders(2,0,4,0).AlignExplode("ATI AIW + resize",0,0,1,0)
V3 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi",pixel_type="YUY2").ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true).ColorYUV(off_y=-12,gain_y=-10,cont_u=0,cont_v=0).AlignExplode("Sony TRV480",0,0,0,1)

Interleave(V1,V2,V3)

I screwed up when I was bringing the levels down; there is additional detail to recover in the 550 capture. It has the greatest dynamic range, followed by the TRV480.

The DV has blocky chroma and rainbowing (cross-color artifacts; the JVC DV file shouldn't have this since it's labelled S-Video). It also features heavy chroma NR (for good or ill).

The JVC's built-in TBC prevents the TRV480's (apparently) stronger TBC from correcting the bottom of the image. You may want to turn off R3 edge enhancement, as there are certainly halos here.

I've circled some things you may want to compare in-depth, though you'll have to do it with the originals because I didn't realize how savagely the Snipping Tool abuses JPEG compression. The rainbowing on the chair in particular has been wiped away.

[Brad]

Sony SLV-N60. Different brightness & contrast adjustments to the JVC this time to bring it in line with the widest-range Sony capture.

V1 = AVISource("vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, 550 vdub clip1.avi").ColorYUV(off_y=7,gain_y=-55,cont_u=-38,cont_v=-38).AlignExplode("JVC HR-S7500U (R3 On, TBC On) <YC> ATI 550",2,0,1,0)

V4 = MPEG2Source("vhs guitar sony composite sharp2+apc, 550 cmc clip1.d2v").ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true).ColorYUV(off_y=7,gain_y=-30,cont_u=-38,cont_v=-38).AlignExplode("Sony SLV-N60 (SH 2, APC On) <CVBS> ATI 550 MPEG-2",0,2,1,0).Trim(1,0)
V5 = AVISource("vhs guitar sony composite sharp2+apc, 550 vdub clip1.avi").ColorYUV(off_y=7,gain_y=-30,cont_u=-38,cont_v=-38).AlignExplode("Sony SLV-N60 (SH 2, APC On) <CVBS> ATI 550",0,2,1,0)
V6 = AVISource("vhs guitar sony composite sharp2+apc, DV clip1.avi",pixel_type="YUY2").ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true).ColorYUV(off_y=-9,gain_y=-45,cont_u=0,cont_v=0).AlignExplode("Sony SLV-N60 (SH 2, APC On) <CVBS> Sony TRV480",2,0,0,1)

Interleave(V1,V4,V5,V6)

There are dark halos and the edges don't seem as clearly defined as the JVC; they look "spread out". The JVC's chroma cleanup is also doing a nice job.

The compression artifacts in the MPEG-2 should be obvious even without any zoom.

The Sony+550 combination provides the most dynamic range of your combinations. But no TBC (look at the number board & bottom of image).

The Sony+DV has the same chroma issues as the JVC+DV, though the rainbowing takes on a different appearance.

Obviously there is no perfect choice...

[dianedebuda]

The DV has blocky chroma and rainbowing (cross-color artifacts; the JVC DV file shouldn't have this since it's labelled S-Video).

Going to take a bit to digest this, but see an obvious mistake on the naming of vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi - there's no svideo input to the trv480, so the name should have been vhs guitar jvcs composite +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi.

The JVC's built-in TBC prevents the TRV480's (apparently) stronger TBC from correcting the bottom of the image.

The trv480's tbc was turned off. trv480 -tbc DV

Hubby remembers that the JVC composite looked better than the svideo to him with the test tape; I've been though so many interations that I've lost track. I'm finding preliminary equipment decisions made using the test tape not worth a whole lot with the actual tape. Worth making/posting another set of tests? The guitar tape has only a 3-4 min recording on it, so it's pretty quick. I'm worried about tape damage by running the tape too much, but don't feel I've explored options enough yet. Suggested combinations?

Is the aiw worth considering or inferior to the 550 and trv480 pass-through? Would a better capture card be worth considering? May be impossible to tell, but am wondering about the relative quality of these vcrs compared to what someone like LordSmurf would have. I mean, the whole point of the vhs captures right now is to see what's on the tapes and get the best home capture we can without spending a ton of $. At this point, I'd try another capture card, but not buy another vcr, particurlarly after reading some of orsetto's posts - I just don't have enough tapes to justify the expense. If there's reasonable expectation that LS could do a much better capture because of his expertise & equipment, we'd be foolish not to consider this as an option for our "important" tapes. I have an unfounded paranoia about shipping the tapes though; not particularly frantic about LS losing or damaging tape, but USP/USPS... If we do the home captures before sending, we'll at least have something if my nightmare occurs. Don't want to damage the tapes with our mucking around.

Even if we do end up sending off the vhs tapes, I don't feel this is wasted effort. We're learning a lot and can appreciate more what a pro can do. It's becoming a project hubby & I are doing together. He was interested in what I was seeing here on the forum and we've gone through oldretiredguy's thread together - weird form of a date?

[Brad]

I'm holding off on examining the Hi8 captures until you have a chance to take in the VHS pros and cons.

The DV has blocky chroma and rainbowing (cross-color artifacts; the JVC DV file shouldn't have this since it's labelled S-Video).

Going to take a bit to digest this, but see an obvious mistake on the naming of vhs guitar jvcs svideo +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi - there's no svideo input to the trv480, so the name should have been vhs guitar jvcs composite +tbc+r3+svhs, trv480 -tbc DV clip1.avi.

Thought so. Darn I'm good, eh?

There's no way to connect analog input and analog output to the camcorder at the same time, is there? (I/O uses the same minijack right?)

The JVC's built-in TBC prevents the TRV480's (apparently) stronger TBC from correcting the bottom of the image.

The trv480's tbc was turned off. trv480 -tbc DV

Hmm. Well either way, it's correcting the bottom of the image and the JVC's TBC prevents it from doing so (I believe; there is no test file with the JVC TBC off but the Sony test implies this and it would make sense given the way TBC works). I've become obsessed with that area of VHS captures, but you may not care one way or the other about those 9 lines. Most people don't.

Hubby remembers that the JVC composite looked better than the svideo to him with the test tape; I've been though so many interations that I've lost track.

That would be very odd.

Is the aiw worth considering or inferior to the 550 and trv480 pass-through?

So far it looks like you may as well sideline the AIW because it's clipping too much of the bright highlights. You could try lowering the Proc Amp Contrast control but I suspect it will only bring down the levels without restoring the clipped areas.

Try it though, and for the 550 too.

Would a better capture card be worth considering?

Depends on if there is one that fits a particular definition of "better". In this case I think what you're looking for is one that could possibly exceed the dynamic range provided by the 550. I would try the EZGrabber2 for $13, but I'm me. (Ordinarily I would say VC500 but it seems they raised the price from $20-some to $32). [sanlyn must be gagging right now.]

May be impossible to tell, but am wondering about the relative quality of these vcrs compared to what someone like LordSmurf would have.

I don't think his JVCs would look substantially different from yours (note: my knowledge in that area is extremely weak), but having access to some Panasonic S-VHS machines as well might offer something that yours don't.

As you can see, the fact that your JVC S-VHS is blowing out your capture cards' levels while the plain-jane Sony is providing more headroom... that's one of those things orsetto was talking about where you end up seriously considering the cheapo VCR to the fancy souped-up deck because of issues with particular tapes/equipment. Pretty annoying, and I don't think I've spent what you have.

He was interested in what I was seeing here on the forum and we've gone through oldretiredguy's thread together - weird form of a date?

Haha, I love it.

[jagabo]

May be impossible to tell, but am wondering about the relative quality of these vcrs compared to what someone like LordSmurf would have.

I don't think his JVCs would look substantially different from yours (note: my knowledge in that area is extremely weak)

I don't have much experience with particular (S)VHS deck either but by enlarge your caps are looking pretty good for VHS. Vaporeon800 has pointed out most of the issues -- halos, rainbowing, blown out brights, etc. Other than that I don't think you'll get much better caps with another deck (individual tape variations aside).

[dianedebuda]

I'm holding off on examining the Hi8 captures until you have a chance to take in the VHS pros and cons.

Bless you. Getting close to info overload as it is. Only real reason I stuck in now was for capture device compare.

There's no way to connect analog input and analog output to the camcorder at the same time, is there? (I/O uses the same minijack right?)

Right. No full pass-through, just analog in to digital out conversion.

The JVC's built-in TBC prevents the TRV480's (apparently) stronger TBC from correcting the bottom of the image. The trv480's tbc was turned off. trv480 -tbc DV Hmm. Well either way, it's correcting the bottom of the image and the JVC's TBC prevents it from doing so

Not understanding "correcting the bottom of the image". I have my +tbc & -tbc clips that I made from the test tape, so if I know what to look for...

Hubby remembers that the JVC composite looked better... That would be very odd.

We thought so too. Thing is, it is scene dependant - svideo still frame to composite still frame. Can look at it 20 min later & decide differently.


Will take a look at the EZGrabber and the VC500.

I don't think I've spent what you have.

Except for the recent JVC vcr, the test equipment has been acquired over the last 10-15 years. Used to capture tv with the AIW. Bought the 550 when it came out 'cause it sounded neat. Bought a couple of AIW2006 with plans to replace the orig AIW, but had tons of trouble with them. Sent them to ATI & they replaced them with x1650 video + 650. Didn't do us much good, 'cause the capture boxes were still running win2k and those cards didn't have drivers.

Been reading another thread, VHS Restoration, that has a ton of worthwhile stuff. Think I'll share with hubby. But in there, there's a mention of monitor calibration. Just wondering if I should grab one of my crts to use as a monitor on the capture boxes rather than using an lcd like I am now for proc amp tweaks on the next capture go-around.


So far, looks like no definitive vcr winner, right? By the same token, no definitive loser either.