MPEG-2 to MP4 H264 Best Quality Settings

[bg1111]

Hello,

Got some videos I want to use on my Blue Ray player that accepts a USB drive. It accepts MP4 H264 files but doesn't support DIVX. XVID seems to have aspect problems. I'd like to get the best quality from my master but make it as small as possible. I've been using Format Factory and it seems to do a good job. What quality settings should I use to convert these the best? If I go too large on the bitrate I get a huge file and too low, it seems jerky or the picture breaks up. I'd like to delete my masters to reclaim space on my hd.

MPEG-2 file specs
720x480 12,000 bit (also have 8000 & 5000) 29.9 fps

Also, will a 12,000 bit MPEG-2 file converted to 1000 bit MP4 have the same quality as a 5000 bit MPEG-2 converted to the same 1000 bit MP4?

Thanks

[hech54]

I'd like to delete my masters to reclaim space on my hd.

Dumb idea.
Buy another hard drive.

[smrpix]

I'd like to delete my masters to reclaim space on my hd.

Dumb idea.
Buy another hard drive.

+1

[PuzZLeR]

I'd like to delete my masters to reclaim space on my hd.

Dumb idea.
Buy another hard drive.

+2


1st Golden Rule, many learn the hard way in this hobby, is: It doesn't matter what you encode to for your playback needs as long as you keep the Source.

With price/GB at an all-time low for storage, this should be even easier to apply today. Formats, settings, players, even tastes, change all the time. You destroy lots of quality when you encode, but as long as you have the Source to rework tomorrow, next month, or 18 years from now, it's moot.

(Ok, I got rid of alot of my Source VHS/audio tapes transferred and paper scanned, but I still apply the rule to digital assets on HDD.)

[hello_hello]

Don't use Format Factory.

Try an x264 encoder GUI such as Handbrake (use Handbrake's High Profile preset unless you have a reason not to).

Don't select a bitrate. Choose a quality instead (the bitrate will vary accordingly). A quality (RF) value of 18 is supposed to be roughly where the x264 encoder is "transparent". Higher values = lower quality = smaller file sizes. If you want the encodes as close to perfect as possible, try RF16 or maybe even RF15. The file sizes will probably increase a fair bit though.

[PuzZLeR]

2nd Golden Rule, that will save you lots of time and headaches: Get into the habit of appreciating (one-pass) quality based encoding.


In other words, don't worry about bitrate so much. It's a whole new philosophy. Just choose the quality you want and let your encoder do the figuring out for you. Any encoder worth its salt should have this feature. Never worked with Format Factory, but if it doesn't have this, then it sucks.


Having said that, now to address your question:

I'd like to get the best quality from my master but make it as small as possible.

You will pull your hair out trying to figure this one out. Just instead choose the quality you want and let your encoder figure it out for you.

Also, will a 12,000 bit MPEG-2 file converted to 1000 bit MP4 have the same quality as a 5000 bit MPEG-2 converted to the same 1000 bit MP4?

Not really. Given the same clip maybe. However, it could be in reverse too. If the 12mbps file was a fast moving clip, like a sporting event, and the 5mbps clip was a talk show with little movement, the 5mbps should look better in a 1mbps bitrate.


But almost anything can suck in a 1mbps bitrate on a big screen.


Does Format Factory use x264 for its H.264 output? If so, to make it simple for you, just use x264 at crf=18 and your problem should be solved.

[PuzZLeR]

@hello_hello: We cross-posted, and you in the middle of mine.


But I'm glad we are on the same thought pattern. I agree on ditching Format Factory and using HandBrake too and the quality presets.

Then again, I never used Format Factory.

[hello_hello]

I kind of remembered Format Factory doesn't have a x264/CRF encoding mode, but I haven't used it myself in a long time so I could be wrong.

[PuzZLeR]

To omit a constant quality feature in an encoder (whether via front end and/or under the hood) is either by A) bad design/neglect, or B) has a specific function dedicated to target size only.

Maybe the latter reason may be valid in certain professional applications with a specific function. Regardless, I personally feel any such encoder without this feature is an encoder that is sorely lacking.

[bg1111]

Don't worry about me deleting master files. Those are tv shows or movies I saved from cable. Important videos I keep.

The reason I like Format Factory is it has a trim feature so I don't have to edit in a separate operation then convert before converting to MP4. I don't see that feature in Handbrake unless I'm not seeing it.

Format Factory also has quality templates and does H264. It also rips disks as well.

Thanks

[hello_hello]

"Quality templates" and quality based encoding mightn't be the same thing. I'm only guessing, but your first post implied Format Factory's "quality" is based on bitrate (as you only mentioned bitrate yourself). While it's true bitrate relates to quality, no two videos will compress to the same quality using the same bitrate. That's why x264 has a quality-based encoding mode. Instead of taking a guess at the bitrate required and hoping for the best, you pick the quality (it's called a CRF value) and the appropriate bitrate will be used when encoding. The bitrate can vary quite a bit from video to video, but for a given CRF value the quality relative to the original should always be pretty much the same.

I don't have Format Factory installed but I found a pic of it's encoding setup. There's no option to choose anything other than bitrate I can see. Same applies to the audio.... bitrate only. Admittedly I could only find a pic of it's encoder setup when using the Divx encoder. Is the h264 encoder setup any different? https://www.videohelp.com/toolsimages/format_factory_1194.jpg
I'm not sure why most of those "one click" conversion type programs don't have an option for CRF encoding. Video To Video Converter doesn't, and I'm pretty sure AnyVideoConverter and Super are the same.

Also, will a 12,000 bit MPEG-2 file converted to 1000 bit MP4 have the same quality as a 5000 bit MPEG-2 converted to the same 1000 bit MP4?

There's zero relationship between the bitrate of the source file and the bitrate required when re-encoding it. The encoder only sees uncompressed video which it then re-compresses. It has no idea what birate might have been used originally. The required bitrate for a given quality is determined by how hard the video is to compress.... with an entirely different encoder. It's possible (although far less likely using the x264 encoder than Xvid) that a noisy, low quality video will require as much bitrate as the original to compress to a decent quality.
If you can't use a quality based encoding mode it's probably an idea to be generous with the bitrate. Better to waste bits than not use enough.

Handbrake is probably one of the easiest to use programs to give you more control over other aspects of encoding (resizing/cropping/de-interlacing etc), although generally it'll do a good job without much user knowledge required. As you said though, you can't edit with it (although it will let you specify a start and end point for encoding).

MeGUI can edit, but it has more of a learning curve than other encoder GUIs and setting up an encode (if you do everything "manually") can take longer.

[bg1111]

Handbrake is probably one of the easiest to use programs to give you more control over other aspects of encoding (resizing/cropping/de-interlacing etc), although generally it'll do a good job without much user knowledge required. As you said though, you can't edit with it (although it will let you specify a start and end point for encoding).

I see at the top where you can enter start & stop seconds. That works for me on the trim. I'm converting some files with it and we'll see how they turn out.
Thanks

[Hoser Rob]

Don't worry about me deleting master files. Those are tv shows or movies I saved from cable. Important videos I keep.

The reason I like Format Factory is it has a trim feature so I don't have to edit in a separate operation then convert before converting to MP4. I don't see that feature in Handbrake unless I'm not seeing it.

Format Factory also has quality templates and does H264. It also rips disks as well.

Thanks

Take the previous advice. Ditch format factory. It stinks. It does a lot of things but does them badly.

I only know of three decent encoders which don't require you to be a highly knowledgeable video geek, which you are clearly not. Those are handbrake, vidcoder and avidemux. The first 2 are really the same program with different GUI front ends. Avidemux isn't quite as easy to use as the others but it's not as bad as other programs that actually have some power and features, and it will edit as well.

[hello_hello]

A few tips when re-encoding DVD/mpeg2 files.

The mpeg2 video you referred to doesn't use square pixels. The video is resized to the correct aspect ratio on playback (either 16:9 or 4:3) but the resolution is always 720x480.

Forgetting any cropping of black bars for the moment, you can encode the video "as-is" (720x480) and the output MP4/MKV should be resized on playback to the correct aspect ratio the same way the original video would be. Unfortunately though, aspect ratios in MP4/MKV files aren't universally supported by hardware players so the video mightn't display correctly. Aspect ratios in AVIs are almost never supported. They should look fine when played using a PC/software player though.
The above is called "anamorphic encoding". Under Handbrake's Picture tab, if you set Anamorphic to "Strict" it won't let you resize and the output video should be the same as the input video (minus any cropping of black bars).

If the above encodes don't display correctly using your Bluray player (the picture looks squished) then you need to resize the video to square pixels. To do so with Handbrake you'd select Anamorphic "None". I'd recommend changing the Modulus setting to "2" (it allows the most accurate resizing). Make sure the "keep aspect ratio" box is checked. That way Handbrake will automatically calculate the correct height based on the chosen width. For 16:9 video you should end up with something like 720x404, although if any cropping is applied it will be a little (or a lot) different.

Unfortunately Handbrake doesn't seem to be one of them, but some encoder GUIs let you resize anamorphic video to square pixels by increasing the width rather than reducing the height, which may help retain some fine detail (although it'll result in larger file sizes at the same quality). Vidcoder is an alternative Handbrake GUI (although very similar) and if you're resizing to square pixels it'll allow you to resize "up" rather than force you to resize "down". I tend to use the resizing "up" method myself, so as an example, rather than resize (16:9) 720x480 video to something like 720x404, I'd resize to 854x480 instead.

Hopefully that'll help you understand the way the different resizing methods work without bombarding you with too much information.
Whichever method you choose though, if you let HandBrake/Vidcoder do the resizing (check "keep aspect ratio" where applicable) it should pretty much always get it correct.

[nebbish_2112]

What should be selected in HandBrake for the Video Framerate? Should this be kept variable?

Also for the optimise video tab should I select the x264 Preset as slow?

[hello_hello]

What should be selected in HandBrake for the Video Framerate? Should this be kept variable?

It depends who you ask.
The main idea behind variable, is sometimes video can be a combination of film (23.976) and NTSC (29.970). If so, it's generally mostly one or the other, but using a variable frame rate would encode it that way. Whether that's likely to cause playback problems I don't know.
If you set it to constant then it'll be converted to a common frame rate.
I use an AVIsynth based encoder GUI which expects a constant frame rate so the latter method is always used.
Personally I'd go with a constant frame rate. If the source video is constant frame rate, then the setting shouldn't matter anyway. The output will have a constant frame rate either way.

Also for the optimise video tab should I select the x264 Preset as slow?

It's up to you. The default of medium is fine. Slower presets may compress the video a little more for a given CRF value (although occasionally they increase the file size) but the quality is basically the same. I use Slow mostly myself, but I do use Medium if I'm in more of a hurry, or sometimes for HD. You'd probably have to be using one of the fastest presets to see any quality difference.