Help me decide how to render my projects please!

[blujay]

Okay, so I am capturing .avi files compressed with the Xvid codec on it's highest quality setting at 1280x720, 30fps & PCM.

I'm using Sony Vegas 12 as my editor, and getting comfortable with the recording/editing of it. I have several workflow related questions and would very much like to hear your experienced advice.


Question 1:


I want to trim these .avi Xvid files without re-compressing so that I can edit them later, to save hard-drive space. The audio tab is set to PCM. My understanding is that as long as your render matches the original file's settings, any quality loss should be trivial.

Are the settings in this screenshot acceptable for my purpose?




Question 2:


The best final format for me to render. I know rendering uncompressed and using another program like VirtualDub is my best option for quality; and in the future I will explore that option when I have more hard drive space. Quality isn't critical, however.


For now, using Vegas, what is my best option of compressing down these larger Xvid files? I have been getting decent results out of MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4) using these settings (video rendering quality is set to best):





Not much to say about that other than that there is a non-trivial quality loss.


I was interested in using x264 because I have used it in the past and it does a good job. However, when I try to render in vegas using it the output files are only giving me a black screen. I tried playing them in VLC and WMP to the same result. I know the encoder itself is working because I can record using x264; but that's no good for editing.





Those are the settings I used. Any ideas?


Thanks for your time.

[aedipuss]

smart rendering does not work with xvid. it only works for -

• DV AVI
• DV MXF
• IMX MXF (IMX 24p MXF is not supported for smart rendering)
• HD MXF
• MPEG-2 (for files such as those from HDV and DVD camcorders)
• XDCAM EX

for xvid sources only edit and render out once.

[Nelson37]

You made a mistake in capturing to a highly compressed format if you intend to edit.

I honestly do not recall if virtualdub will do this with Direct Stream Copy.

Other option is to edit, save as losslessly compressed AVI, then encode. I was never particularly happy with Vegas's encoding engine, but that was
several versions ago.

[blujay]

You shouldn't presume someone "made a mistake" - since perfection isn't necessary; I am limited by the bandwidth of my recording device. Xvid is a good "middle ground". x264 is one hell of a lot more compressed than Xvid after all... so much so that you can barely edit it at all. I will simply keep all my Xvid files whole until I edit them and then process them only once.

It would have been a much bigger mistake to capture to a format not compressed, since my hardware doesn't support that, unfortunately.

Thanks for the information anyway.



Any idea why I can't get x264 encoding to produce an image, though?

[smrpix]

You shouldn't presume someone "made a mistake" - since perfection isn't necessary; I am limited by the bandwidth of my recording device. Xvid is a good "middle ground"

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until that last sentence.

x264 is one hell of a lot more compressed than Xvid after all... so much so that you can barely edit it at all.

Correct, it's not made for editing -- but at similar bitrates is superior in image quality to xvid -- which is also not made for editing.

I will simply keep all my Xvid files whole until I edit them and then process them only once.

From where you stand at the moment, that's wise.

It would have been a much bigger mistake to capture to a format not compressed, since my hardware doesn't support that, unfortunately.

There are other options, Cineform, Lagarith or even DVCPro, for example.

Good luck.

[poisondeathray]

Question 1:


I want to trim these .avi Xvid files without re-compressing so that I can edit them later, to save hard-drive space.

If it's just simple cuts type editing , use vdub or avidemux. No compression losses if cut on keyframes. And if you need frame accuracy, they smart render xvid, no compression losses except a few frames around the cutsite in the affected GOP

For now, using Vegas, what is my best option of compressing down these larger Xvid files? I have been getting decent results out of MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4) using these settings (video rendering quality is set to best):

You'll get better compression using x264 with decent settings than Mainconcept AVC. (Better quality at the same bitrate or smaller filesizes at the same quality). You can use the vdub external encoder with x264.exe or ffmpeg, or even x264vfw directly in vdub

[Nelson37]

Perfection is not achievable. Avoiding mistakes which degrade the video seriously IS avoidable.

Capturing to XVID is not recommended. Making an XVID you intend to edit is not recommended.

Compressing your video THREE TIMES is a mistake, unless making bad video is your goal.

Not understanding how your editing/encoding software works is a mistake.

Failing to describe your capture hardware or your PC is a mistake.

Let's see if you make another one.

[blujay]

Perfection is not achievable. Avoiding mistakes which degrade the video seriously IS avoidable.

Capturing to XVID is not recommended. Making an XVID you intend to edit is not recommended.

Compressing your video THREE TIMES is a mistake, unless making bad video is your goal.

Not understanding how your editing/encoding software works is a mistake.

Failing to describe your capture hardware or your PC is a mistake.

Let's see if you make another one.

You're full of shit. Did you even read the thread? Get out.


1.) High-memory recording is not an option; I have high processing power and low bandwidth. Some compression must be done at capture, it's not a choice but a limitation of hardware design.


2.) I specifically say two times I am aware of not wanting to re-compress the video and that I know it's bad enough that I am already encoding twice; which is why I specifically asked if there was a way to trim Xvid files without doing so- or if I would simply need to keep the whole file until editing was done.


3.) I specifically said perfection wasn't a goal, so I don't know what you're going on about; obviously if perfection was my goal I would be spending money on more expensive hardware and capturing raw footage. Does it occur to you that everyone can't afford a loss-less capture setup?


Anyway I could give a damn less if you're just going to be a jerk about it. How about instead of just saying "Xvid is bad" you propose an alternative?


You know, make a post that's more constructive than belittling?
"There are other options, Cineform, Lagarith or even DVCPro, for example."

All of which would exceed the network capacity of the recording setup at their highest compression settings. What part of "it would by physically impossible for this robot to capture footage at a higher bit-rate otherwise I totally would" is too hard for you elitists to understand?

[blujay]

It was also especially useful how you all ignored the most important question on the board (why is Vegas rendering x264 to blank black frames) to berate me for using a low-quality capture method (even though I explained it as an unfortunate necessity; and didn't ask for any input codec advice because that part of the process has been resolved to an acceptable quality for the practical real world purposes unrelated to entertainment required).

Board rating review 0/10.

[Nelson37]

I offered you not one, but TWO, practical, better alternatives to what you are doing.

You have not mentioned or described your computer or capture hardware.

You clearly do not understand the process very well, there are almost certainly better options to your current process without spending a dime.

Without knowing your PC or capture hardware, it is almost impossible to give more specifics, but they are there.

Unless your PC is operated by a hand crank, your "bandwidth" should be wide enough and "memory usage" is not really an issue.

DESCRIBE YOUR HARDWARE!!!

OR, continue acting like a 12-year-old. Your choice, I don't really care.

[_Al_]

Do you have 64bit version of x264vfW in case you have 64bit Vegas?

[smrpix]

It was also especially useful how you all ignored the most important question on the board (why is Vegas rendering x264 to blank black frames) to berate me for using a low-quality capture method (even though I explained it as an unfortunate necessity; and didn't ask for any input codec advice because that part of the process has been resolved to an acceptable quality for the practical real world purposes unrelated to entertainment required).

On the other hand, it may be the cause of your "real" issue.

[duhmez]

Question #1. Without smart rendering the quality loss will be significant, but you might still not be able to tell. You do have options if you don't mind anothe program first, but if you don't feel like messing with anything else you can go ahead and render it and see if it suits your needs. It is very easy to smart render xvid with virtualdub. Grab the newest version, click on full processing mode, choose xvid codec 1 pass and give it a bitrate matching the rest of the file. Click on video>smart render. Now make all the edits you like, frame acurate and file>save as will produce a new file with zero quality loss and it will take only a few seconds to do. If hoever you are going to use ANY effects or filters or anything in vegas, then this would be a pointless procedure and do it all in Vegas. But if you just want to trim the file and be finished, you will get much better results using virtualdub's smart render. It is fast and easy. You can easily goto the vdub guide for how to trim with virtualdub to learn how the trimming works, and then follow my instructions here to setup as a smart render.