Panasonic VCR Settings

[Tafflad]

I am being strongly advised to turn off Noise Reduction on my VCR and re-do the captures.
However I cannot find any option to do this ?

The VCR 'was' an expensive pro-sumer 4 head model, Panasonic NV-HS800 .... referred to as SVHS PAL Superdrive

It does have the AI Crystal View ... but have this 'off'
(this is described as dedicated microprocessor control of tapehead to circuitry)

There is a soft-sharp slider ... always been left at centre position.

16:9 left at auto
Edit: off
Video: Colour


Anybody know if there is NR disable feature?

[hech54]

My little Panasonic NV-HD620 has Crystal View so I would not read much into that.

[Tafflad]

Had never turned it 'on' ... just mentioned it, in case this was the Panasonic NR equivalent.

[DB83]

Of course the 'smart-arse' answer woould be to read the manual but by my amazing powers of dudection (deliberate miss-spelling) I guess you do not have one. And a google revealed all sorts of scams in an attempt to locate an online edition.

Sure someone will have the 'correct' answer but that soft/sharp slider is intriguing. Given that a result of noise reduction is to soften the image, try placing it at full 'sharp' and then at full 'soft'. Methinks you will notice the difference. I would guess that it is effectively 'off' at full 'sharp'

PS I would edit that topic title to make your question stand out.

[Tafflad]

Your Super Powers are wrong
... I have the manual (sad I Know, I have original box, plastic bags & even box for the remote) ... and it does not mention NR anywhere.
This is why I thought I'd put up this post as multiple times I'm being told to 'turn NR off'

[DB83]

Gee, that is sad

Try what I suggested.

[manono]

Sure someone will have the 'correct' answer but that soft/sharp slider is intriguing. Given that a result of noise reduction is to soften the image, try placing it at full 'sharp' and then at full 'soft'.

My Panasonic NV-HS860 has the same thing. I put it on 'Soft' because with it at 'Medium' it's still sharpening, something I don't want. I also have a separate '3D DNR' button (which I keep turned off) so I don't believe the sharpening is at all related to DNR. I can't help with his problem, though, but it could be that the DNR is on permanently if there's nothing about it in his manual. Too bad.

[DB83]

Sure someone will have the 'correct' answer but that soft/sharp slider is intriguing. Given that a result of noise reduction is to soften the image, try placing it at full 'sharp' and then at full 'soft'.

My Panasonic NV-HS860 has the same thing. I put it on 'Soft' because with it at 'Medium' it's still sharpening, something I don't want. I also have a separate '3D DNR' button (which I keep turned off) so I don't believe the sharpening is at all related to DNR. I can't help with his problem, though, but it could be that the DNR is on permanently if there's nothing about it in his manual. Too bad.

Now you say that, I seem to recall an earlier topic that mentioned the button. Is there a light that illuminates when the button is pressed to show that it is 'on' ?

[manono]

Now you say that, I seem to recall an earlier topic that mentioned the button. Is there a light that illuminates when the button is pressed to show that it is 'on' ?

Yes, on either side of the place where you put the tape in are buttons for the line TBC and the 3D DNR. You push them in to turn them on/off and they both light up when on. They're independent of each other, of course. Which makes me wonder why they couldn't get that right with the NTSC AG-1980 model, or the JVCs. It just seems so obvious in hindsight. Maybe back then no one could tell how much the DNR messed up the picture when all you had to watch on was a CRT TV set.

The sharpening is in the menu.

[DB83]

Now. Has our friend seen the light ?

[Tafflad]

Unfortunately not on my HS800 model ... only buttons to L or R of tape slot are 'Power on' and 'Eject'

My ADVC110 arrived today ... will try out some tests over next few days.

[2Bdecided]

I think that generation of Panasonic VCRs just has the sharpness slider, and (if you're lucky) a three position hardware (i.e. real, not in a menu) switch labelled something like edit/norm/denoise. The edit position supposedly took something out of circuit for when dubbing VHS>VHS (the results are quite noisy). The norm position gives you the result of the slider, and the denoise position always looked exactly the same as putting the slider to the "soft" setting (to me, in the early/mid 1990s, on a CRT).

Cheers,
David.

[Tafflad]

> I think that generation of Panasonic VCRs just has the sharpness slider,

yes it has that ..

> a three position hardware switch labelled something like edit/norm/denoise.

Nope ... it has Edit 'off / On'

Manual says this is set to 'On' when using external Edit controller.

[Tafflad]

....

Sure someone will have the 'correct' answer but that soft/sharp slider is intriguing. Given that a result of noise reduction is to soften the image, try placing it at full 'sharp' and then at full 'soft'.

OK .. sorry for delay (had to buy a replacement ADVC unit)
I have carried out test as you suggest 3 files uploaded of 'off air' BBC recording - SP VHS PAL same 15 sec clip each time.
Edit is set to OFF
VCR <svideo> ADVC <firewire> PC
Capture with WINDV set to AVI type 2

With slider set at Mid point, at Soft & at Sharp .... each captured as DV and then compressed in VD using Lagarith with no filters or adjustments.
Be interested in your view .... (pun intended)

(BTW - surprising the significant difference in captured file size, between soft & sharp settings - 30%)

[DB83]

Well I will now do my best impression of Kevin Peterson facing Mitch Johnson and fail to duck

Just looked at the two extremes. My impression is that the 'soft' is full noise reduction whereas the 'sharp' has visible noise artifacts.

[Tafflad]

So my 'capture' with it set to mid 'detent' position is probably the best to use ?

[DB83]

Personally, I would set it at 'sharp' and let the avisynth filters do the rest.

But what do I know ?

[manono]

My impression is that the 'soft' is full noise reduction whereas the 'sharp' has visible noise artifacts.

Maybe we see what we want to see, but I don't see any sign of any noise reduction and think the one using the 'Soft' sharpness setting is the best of the bunch.

Personally, I would set it at 'sharp' and let the avisynth filters do the rest.

Even with all the edge enhancement and aliasing created?

Ultimately it's Tafflad's decision and he should use the one that looks best to him. It's an interesting comparison of what the three Sharpness settings do and thanks, Tafflad, for making them available.

[Brad]

If you look at the scene changes, there are temporal artifacts from both the previous frame(s) and the next frame(s) -- but they exist on all three captures.

Even the "mid" setting is full of halos. Maybe try halfway between soft and mid?

Where's the comparison with "EDIT" on? Does that option disable the sharpness slider?

[Tafflad]

The manual states that edit 'on' is only used when Panasonic external h/w edit controller is used.
No mention of any impact on NR (but who knows)

However happy to try ...Here is same clip - slider to 'mid point' and edit to 'ON'

[Tafflad]

Any comments on the 'Clip with Edit On' ??

As a further variable .... as I no longer have TBC .... one suggestion was to use 'Pass Through' on a DVDR

I have captured same clip, with slider set to 'Mid point' Edit off capture path is:

VCR <svideo> DVD E9HH <svideo>ADVC110 <Firewire> PC (WinDV) then cropped and saved as compressed Lagarith

Be interested in your views on comparison with Sample2

[Brad]

Any comments on the 'Clip with Edit On' ??

Never saw it, as your edit didn't bump the thread. Unlike the previous samples, the levels aren't blown out. Sharpness-wise it does look the same as Sample 1.

[Tafflad]

Any comments on the 'Clip with Edit On' ??

Never saw it, as your edit didn't bump the thread. Unlike the previous samples, the levels aren't blown out. Sharpness-wise it does look the same as Sample 1.

So does that mean I should redo my captures with 'edit on' and slider left to mid position?

Just trying to find out what are best settings.
Panazonic only mention that edit should be 'on' when using external edit controller, but it appears that it changes analogue signal.

[2Bdecided]

I don't know why the EDIT position made the levels better, but if it does that consistently, I'd use it. If it's a freak, I'd be worried about why the levels from your captures aren't consistent.

I would set someone the challenge of taking the soft capture, and making it as sharp as the "middle" capture in AVIsynth. I reckon the middle capture does include some sharpening, but it's approximately the amount you'd want, and so if you can't do better in SW you might as well take advantage of it in the VCR. Except your wedding tape, with its aliasing, might be a different matter.


I would absolutely not use the sharp setting. It's destroying the picture and adding lots of artificial junk that isn't on the tape.


The DVD-R is adding a beneficial TBC to this capture chain, even though (as in the other thread) it's also taming levels (useful again in this case) and softening the picture slightly (not desirable, but barely noticable). It's clipping the left of the picture off this time! Still, I'd use it. Others may disagree.


Cheers,
David.

[Tafflad]

Thnx

[Master Tape]

Sure someone will have the 'correct' answer but that soft/sharp slider is intriguing. Given that a result of noise reduction is to soften the image, try placing it at full 'sharp' and then at full 'soft'.

My Panasonic NV-HS860 has the same thing. I put it on 'Soft' because with it at 'Medium' it's still sharpening, something I don't want. I also have a separate '3D DNR' button (which I keep turned off) so I don't believe the sharpening is at all related to DNR. I can't help with his problem, though, but it could be that the DNR is on permanently if there's nothing about it in his manual. Too bad.

I have this unit too, but usually keep it on. Is it more for when set to Sharp mode which introduces more noise, then 3D DNR tries to reduce that noise a bit?

I had mines set to Auto before, and noticed especially with a blue background how noisy it was, but then tried it on Soft and it's nearly all gone, it's a world of difference. But did think the image was a tad soft, maybe turning off DNR will help increase the detail.

[Traderbam]

Was there consensus reached on best settings for this unit? I reckon SOFT with DNR is the best for me but keen to hear others successes.

[Traderbam]

Can any owners of NV-HS860 confirm if they see the 3D DNR taking effect on any mode other than AUTO? See attached clip - you can see in the middle of the clip the difference enabling the DNR makes. To the experts is this better to keep on or off? It looks much less noisy when ON but not sure if I should be using a script to sort it out in post. I've been told to keep DNR off for my Philips/JVC unit (3D DNR in menu options rather than physical button) but not sure what the view is in the Panasonic (DNR is commended in other posts).

When I set the mode to SOFT or SHARP and toggle the DNR button I don't see any visible impact.

[lollo]

is this better to keep on or off? It looks much less noisy when ON but not sure if I should be using a script to sort it out in post

Capture is much better with off mode. You switched to on mode at frame 39 in your sample, here a post-processing where the first 38 frames have been denoised, and from frame 39 to the end the video is untouched:

denoised_fisrt_segment.avi

Judge yourself

video_org=AviSource("test1-00.02.01.944-00.02.04.866.avi")

# trimming 1
	trim_start_1=0
	trim_end_1=38
video_org_trim_1=video_org.trim(trim_start_1,trim_end_1)

# trimming 2
	trim_start_2=39
	trim_end_2=0
video_org_trim_2=video_org.trim(trim_start_2,trim_end_2)

### convert to YV16
video_org_trim_1_yv16=video_org_trim_1.convertToYV16()

### denoising
denoised_yv16=video_org_trim_1_yv16.TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=3)

### convert to YUY2
denoised=denoised_yv16.ConvertToYUY2()

video_final=denoised++video_org_trim_2

return(video_final)

[manono]

Can any owners of NV-HS860 confirm if they see the 3D DNR taking effect on any mode other than AUTO?

I never used it in mine. I'd rather use AviSynth's noise reduction filters than the ancient ones in any VCR, even one as good as the 860.