Monitor problem with vertical size

[loninappleton]

Seemingll "pvernight" my 19" KDS monitor which has bee running for years developed a vertical size problem.

The image is pinched at the left and right vertical borders. I have not observed any problem in plain 80 column test when the machine goes through POST.


So far I have looked at what's available on the monitor for this problem.
I used the Degauze button which activated demagnetization of the image but can see no change.

Could this be at a loose or weak plug connection to the motherboard?

The motherboard has on board NVidia video which has always been adequate for me. Changing the resolution in Windows XP appeared to make the problem worse by shifting the image off screen further to the left. A simple add-in board might be a solution. I'd like to avoid that.

Also I attempted to reinstall drivers. This didn't have much effect.

I do not know where to get advice on this and here is my first stop.

[usually_quiet]

This is a CRT monitor, correct? How old is it? You can't expect any monitor to last forever.

[aedipuss]

if it is a crt then the electromagnetic is dying. as crt's age the magnet gets weaker and the picture gets smaller. it will just quit altogether soon.

[Constant Gardener]

I assume you've tried the front-panel adjustments? If the horizontal width is at maximum, and the picture does not fill the screen, then you probably have internal circuit issues which are seldom worth fixing. I would recommend a firm slap to the side of the case just in case something is loose.

[Nelson37]

The shift of the image to one side after a Windows resolution change would indicate that the problem is not a physical defect in the monitor, but a simple image resize issue. There should be a horizontal and vertical image stretch and also placement controls on the monitor.

[loninappleton]

I assume you've tried the front-panel adjustments? If the horizontal width is at maximum, and the picture does not fill the screen, then you probably have internal circuit issues which are seldom worth fixing. I would recommend a firm slap to the side of the case just in case something is loose.

CRT monitor, yes.

This reminds me of the scene in The Longest Day when Montgomery is confronted with a tank that doesn't run. He hits the tank with a small hand held cudgel on the metal front. The tank starts. His response is: "Anything mechanical that doesn't work, give it a good bash."

I never forgot that scene.

Maybe the monitor is aging out. I have a spare to test with but it is even older.
Other tricks I am trying is to let XP do it's setup and then run the NVidia driver disk. For some reason, the driver disk was not found when I initially tried it.

Cost of a new flat panel screen is an issue. But over time (and with some support from one of the experts at Video help) I like the look of the CRT over any flats I've seen. It seems to have more depth (case not withstanding.)

[Nelson37]

That wasn't Monty. Supposedly was representing a real person, but not Montgomery. BeachMaster on Sword, I think.

If no resize on the menu, if it is real old there may be mechanical knobs on the rear of the monitor.

Repeat - If you had black area to one side, then change resolution and the displayed image covers the previously black area, there may be no defect in the monitor whatsoever. Check refresh rate settings, and look for those resize controls. You have not mentioned attempting this, they are almost always there, and this is usually the solution to a problem as you are describing it.

[jagabo]

The image is pinched at the left and right vertical borders.

Better CRT monitors have a barrel/pincushion adjustment to correct that distortion.

I have not observed any problem in plain 80 column test when the machine goes through POST.

Because of the lower scan rate used by the graphics card for POST.

[loninappleton]

Everything is somewhat back to normal. I let the XP reinstall and find the video which usually blinks the screen and when the install completed on a scratch drive I ran the NVidia driver disk form the motherboard. This seems to clear up a problem coming from the operating system. I then ran system file checker> Start > Run > sfc /scannow
to refresh Windows files. The distortion looks to be fixed.

In playing with the monitor I increased the width with the horizontal adjustment to bring the image closer to the left and right vertical borders. I do not know if that was significant.

[Nelson37]

You did a tremendous amount of totally un-needed work.

The horizontal adjustment was ALL you needed.

This was probably caused by a change in refresh rate or resolution in Windows. The symptoms you describe are extremely common.

Re-installing Windows and/or the drivers does nothing useful other than set the refresh rate and resolution back to default values, this is somewhat dependent on the software's detection of the monitor capabilities.

You turned a 60-second job into an hours-long ordeal.

AND, you fixed the problem with a simple adjustment and you're not sure it that was SIGNIFICANT?

[loninappleton]

I have twidded with refresh rates and such.
If an XP reinstall is necessary that clicks off and finds the right resolution. Mine is always set to the lowest setting..

When the problem occurred there was no system interruption or backup process etc
going on.

Would media software do these sorts of things?

If I had to guess what the problem was I'd say that my screen was being forced to become
wider like a new flat panel instead of a CRT.

What can be done to prevent such snafus?

[Nelson37]

Most likely, a playback software, or a video game, or a driver update, or a defect in the monitor synch circuits, or evil gremlins from an ancient Indian Burial Ground.

Some progs have settings for Widescreen or 4:3. Some don't.

When you see the problem, FIRST check the resolution settings and refresh rate. These will almost always be changed. Correct and check monitor.

If problem persists, then complete power off, including monitor, reboot, check settings AGAIN, then adjust monitor settings.

What you are seeing is not necessarily a problem from either the PC OR the monitor. It is simply that the monitor did not react as desired to an input.

[loninappleton]

Today I am running a utility which loads in 80 col mode. I noticed that a clock to one side-- the right this time- looked sort of scrunched up as in previous problems.

I have the KDS manual How can I review the correct settings which might have gotten changed with twiddling with those infernal buttons on the front? I use this monitor for viewing avi content. Those buttons are so annoying I cover them up with a piece of cardboard.

[jagabo]

You don't really care about linearity with the POST text mode, do you? Concentrate on the Desktop. If you use a player that changes the graphics card's resolution then calibrate for those too. Better monitors have memories for several different scan rates. Use a Monitor adjustment program like the old NTest.exe from Nokia to generate geometric test patterns. Identify your particular problem then use the adjustments for that. I think you're describing a pincushion or barrel distortion.

http://www.jestineyong.com/display-problems-in-crt-tvmonitor/

[loninappleton]

You are right. No concern about how 80 column text mode looks-- just noted the observation.

I'll look in videohelp tools section for NTest.exe. What should I be looking for after I get the .exe going?

[Nelson37]

Just bring up Windows desktop and resize or move the image with the monitor controls to eliminate any black borders and fill the screen. The display should be fairly close, if hugely off in one dimension make sure you are using a 4:3 resolution like 1024x768, 1280x1024, or similar.

If the black border is curved, that is barreling or pin cushioning. If straight, then just a size adjustment. Degauss is for color blooms in the corners.

Often you have to resize and change position, both.

Get the display correct, then identify the offending program and change it's settings. For a tube, you're not likely to have multiple settings.

Display testing progs for an old monitor can be a bit stressful, and not really useful. It either looks good or it doesn't, it can either be adjusted correctly for the desired resolution or it can't.

[loninappleton]

What fills my screen is 800x600 which I never change. I need the Mr. MaGoo system images and icons.

I yes I looked for straight edges on the side and did a small correction for that.

[lingyi]

As aedipuss stated, your monitor is dying. Even if you're able to adjust it through the manual controls, there will still be some distortion in the sides / corners.

Check your local Craigslist, Freecycle or other local recycling site / store for free or cheap (<$20) CRTs. A couple of years ago I had to trash several CRTs (including a really nice 21" Sony) because I couldn't even give them away.

Since you're running 800x600, you're correct that you're better off with a CRT. Even a square LCD (very difficult to find nowaways) can't correctly display a 800x600 image.

[loninappleton]

I have a spare that I can use in a pinch that I did get from Greecycle and I watch that daily and contribute on occasion. Craiglist? Erf. It and the people on it have become hard to deal with.

If I had to replace something I have to get a lightweight flat panel. My days of carrying a 70-80 monitor upstairs are over-- even with a hand cart.

In all the different types of flat monitors what is the current wisdom for a purchase? I get the idea that flats don't last nearly as long. And picture quality? Which has the best black mask?

This is a change in topic so if there is another discussion on this please ponit it out.

[sanlyn]

Among the best picture quality for the buck are LCD monitors with IPS flat panels from HP and LG. Prices are down to 1/3 what they were just a couple of years ago, and the IPS image is hard to beat. HP tends to have the best performance and color accuracy out of the box, with Dell IPS panels running a close second (but sometimes Dell is a lottery when it comes to QC. I'd go for HP). Other OEMs have IPS panels, but results vary wildly from model to model and many have a problem with edge bleed from the LED backlight. I think HP offers the best deals and tends to be fairly consistent. Any way you look at it, almost all of the front components for IPS panels found today are made by LG to match the brand name's individual spec. Good chip speeds are from 8 on down, but the fastest ones down around 5 or 2 tend to have other imaging problems that aren't worth the extra cost. Processor speed up to 8 is OK for video. And those "contrast" ratings: they are utter fiction. Most monitors have a "real" contrast ratio of about 500:1 to 900:1, and even that doesn't guarantee accurate black levels. Contrast ratios at 30 million to 1? Yeah, right. If you live on the Sun. Try staring directly at the sun for an hour and you'll see what I mean.

For video or graphics work, all monitors should be calibrated. I've seen work by so-called paid amateurs who don't know squat about calibration -- the results are just weird most of the time, and I've seen a lot of photos and wedding vids ruined by using out of spec monitors. Unfortunately the means for this adjustment aren't cheap. Here's an article on how it's properly done by people whose living depends on quality: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eye_one_display2.htm

The tftcentral website also has a ton of info on what to look for in monitors, and reviews too cool and exhaustive to believe. And in layman's language, too.

[Nelson37]

Unless this happens repeatedly there is no evidence whatsoever that the monitor is about to die, nor that it has a real problem in any way.

What happened was absolutely normal and common as dirt. No worries.

[hello_hello]

I agree.... I've not read anything in this thread which makes me believe the monitor is definitely dying. It sounds like some sort of "glitch" where maybe the monitor reset itself for some reason.

I'm still using CRT monitors myself (22" Trinitrins) because I was able to buy them ridiculously cheaply during the period when most people were replacing their CRTs with LCDS.... seemingly oblivious to the fact LCDs suck.... well maybe they're better these days.... I haven't paid attention to LCDs in years.....
and the symptoms described sound pretty normal to me. Well I don't think my monitors have spontaneously reset themselves yet, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a "flat" CRT which has perfectly straight lines from top to bottom no matter how much I've fiddled with it's controls, and "resetting" the monitor usually needs to be followed by a fiddle to straighten out the image in the "corners" as much as possible.

loninappleton,
Windows defaults to a 60Hz refresh rate which is too low for most people. I can see the "flicker" and it drives me nuts..... it's probably one of the reasons CRTs got a bad rap. Have you tried a higher refresh rate? Although be advised if you do, the size of the image displayed by the monitor may change a fair bit. Once you've settled on a refresh rate you might need to use the monitor's front panel controls to resize the picture again so it's the same size as the screen.

[sanlyn]

LCD's have certainly improved. I had a couple of older ones that replaced my ancient CTX CRT, but they've been replaced with a couple of IPS jobs that are clearly superior. Still, not up to a good CRT. I still have an old 14" Gateway CRT (a Trinitron in disguise) that someone was throwing away, dragged out of storage now and then just for nostalgia if nothing else, and a 1992 (yes) Hitachi CRT TV. My eyes do noticce that these tubes weren't what they used to be, but in many respects they still beat my new LCD's. Once a year or so I lug the tubes out of storage and play some recent VHS transfers and some DVD's. As soon as I see the first images I'm convinced that LCD's are a step down. But that's just the way it is. My dad has an old Sharp 32" TV -- a bit of red push, unfortunately, but with a little calibration it's still amazing. Every Christmas visit I bring a stack of DVD's. Just to see what they really look like.