Vhs/DVD clarity question

[Oldretiredguy]

Thanks RWH, cooler heads always prevail. I wonder WTF happened to make it go to all b/w.

[Oldretiredguy]

I narrowed the b/w situation down to some with Grabber. I had a nice color picture and then when I tried to incorporate the Grabber and histogram the picture went b/w and now it is stuck again. Must have something to do with the drivers getting confused or ????????????????

R

[Oldretiredguy]

Interesting thing. I found that while in capture AVI mode with the tape playing, I was able to go to Levels and see the changes being made. Here is another clip that I just made. Had to reboot to get back to color.

[Brad]

Well, you taught me something new. I always thought that Video -> Levels was an internal VirtualDub filter, but it indeed changes the values of the device's own Proc Amp.

Your upload was in uncompressed format this time instead of Huffyuv, doubling the size.

This clip could use a bit of a bump up in brightness, and perhaps contrast if the highlights still aren't white at that point. You won't actually see red at the left edge of the histogram, because the device is cutting off values below black. Instead you need to watch the area near the left and see at what point raising the brightness stops bringing new "blue data" out of the blackness and starts just shifting said data upwards.

[sanlyn]

Interesting thing. I found that while in capture AVI mode with the tape playing, I was able to go to Levels and see the changes being made. Here is another clip that I just made. Had to reboot to get back to color.

By "reboot" do you mean you had to reboot your computer, or you just had to close down Virtualdib and start it again?

The TBC wasn't on. The capture was made at uncompressed UYVY. If the test.avi sample is recompressed to lossless YUY2 Lagarith, the file size is reduced from 435 MB to 173 MB, which is a 250% decrease in size.

If the sample scene is the result of the level settings used, then those settings appear to be a reasonable compromise. There are some grimy looking darks, but more brightness would make things difficult -- for example, the lighting here is overcast. If scenes following this were in bright sunlight, more brightness would make sunlit highlights look really fried. Usually you have to take the middle road during capture to accommodate scenes with wildly varying contrast and lighting.

The image below combines the original posted scene with the Avisynth Levels histogram. Note that the black side borders are removed here to prevent them from skewing the luma readout. The darks (at the histogram's left side) are creeping into the unsafe zone a little, but some of that shadow detail can be retrieved later in YUV. And in some cases, you have to choose between wiping out a little unimportant dark detail while giving priority to more important highlights. Look at the white shirts. Brighter settings will give "hot" highlights with the brighter colors and make them look posterized. There is also a strong purple color cast.


[Attachment 22083 - Click to enlarge]

Below, borders are restored and the levels, shadows, and overall color balance are fixed up a little with ColorYUV and SmoothTweak in Avisynth (and please, don't worry about that kind of stuff just yet. So, I'd say the level settings being used were workable. Another tape or series of shots would need different settings, but they seem OK here. Note that the top half of the image warps toward the left. There are some serious blotchy pink rainbows everywhere that look more vertically twisted across the top of the frame.


[Attachment 22084 - Click to enlarge]

Below, the image as it would display at its 4:3 aspect ratio. I added a few pixels on all 4 borders to make the top warp more visible. Note how the side borders lean toward the left across the top half of the image. In previous captures, the TBC corrected this distortion; it's a sign of poor tracking in the JVC, which would be growing onto 15 years old at this point and likely needs alignment and other maintenance. You can see rainbow artifacts (pink blotches) on the guy's t-shirt and along the dark wall in the background.


[Attachment 22085 - Click to enlarge]

If you want to get a better demo of what poor tracking looks like without a TBC, load your avi sample directly into VirtualDub using "File..." -> "Open video file..." and open the AVI. Scroll to this scene (it's frame 4 and onward in your posted capture), then play the video using the frame-by-frame cursor keys, about 1 or 2 frames each second. You'll see the side borders wiggle, ripple,and sometimes nudge in and out horizontally.

[Oldretiredguy]

Sanlyn, first let me say, I didn't change any settings when I made this capture but when I rebooted, and that means the computer and the program, I did do a reinstall of the virtualdub program because I was trying to figure out why it had gone to b/w. I was pulling at straws to find the reason. Anyway, I guess in reinstalling the program I forgot to go back and make the setting changes that were first applied way back in this thread. Now I have to try to remember what they all were. I might have to way back and see. Also, in your screen shot, how do you get the histogram on the side of the picture? I'm not up on how to do all this stuff so I ask for you to explain it. Thanks,

Ray

[Oldretiredguy]

Your upload was in uncompressed format this time instead of Huffyuv, doubling the size.



I have made 3 test captures but they are all coming in about the same size. How do I get the file "compressed"? What setting am I missing? Where is that setting located in virualdub?

R

[sanlyn]

It might take vaporeon800 a while to reply to your settings question (this joint sort of slows down on weekends). I don't have my capture PC hooked up; the capture menus don't work in the PC I'm using right now (no capture device installed). Usually you set compression with "Video..." -> "Compresion...".

The no-color issue: I get that now and then with one of my ATI cards. I use the "Video" menu and turn "Preview" off and on. Or is it on and off, I don't remember. The problem I get with the other card is audio disappearing. I turn audio off and on again. Behavior depends on the card's drivers.

The histogram and the image are combined using Avisynth. Not difficult to do, but don't worry about that yet. That histogram can't be used during capture. The images posted are exactly the way the frames will look in VirtualDub (images were captured in VirtualDub and saved to PNG in Photoshop). You don't save files that way, it's just for viewing and testing.

If you want to reduce the size of those test captures as they exist now, do this:
-Open the AVI in VirtualDub.
-Set "Video" -> "Color depth...." to "YUY2".
-Set "Video" -> "Compression..." to Lagarith (or to huffyuv if you don't have Lagarith), then set the compressor's configure dialog to "YUY2"
-Set "Video" to "fast recompress"
Save the AVI (give it a new name).

[Oldretiredguy]

I don't seem to have the huffyuv installed correctly because none of those settings are available to me. I don't have a "color depth" option. I did have all this but when I did the reinstall I lost it. I tried to install huffyuv but I didn't know where to let it extract the files to. I tried to put them in the virtualdub folder and I also put them in the program files x86 folder. I know that I had it right once but now I can't remember how I did it.

R

[sanlyn]

What do you mean by "uninstall" VirtualDub and "reinstall" VirtualDub? VirtualDub is uninstalled by running a file in your VirtualDub folder: VirtualDub\auxsetup.exe, and select "Remove" from the menu that results from running that .exe file. If you uninstalled it by deleting the VirtualDub folder, that doesn't remove the few entries that VirtualDub placed in your registry the first time you ran VirtualDub.exe. Even if you delete that folder, running VirtualDub.exe again does the same thing it did the first time you ran it.

huffyuv is not a VirtualDub plugin. It doesn't belong in the VirtualDub folder, and VirtualDub isn't the only program that would use it. Anyway, the version of huffyuv that you were using is one that doesn't work with many system setups. I had to turn on my ffdshow version of their own huffyuv to open your earlier huffyuv captures with DirectShowSource instead of the usual AviSource command. That might explain some of the errors you saw when you tried to set huffyuv compression during capture. AFter I opened your captures I recompressed to Lagarith, then had to shut off the ffdshow codec because it interfered with all the other versions of huffyuv that are used in other captures I've downloaded.

If you want, we can help straighten out the huffyuv problem later. For now, I'd suggest that yoy get a copy of Lagarith and install it. Iy works like huffyuv but makes slightly smaller compressed files. And you'll need Lagarith to save files in lossless YV12, which most versions of huffyuv can't do. YV12 is used for many Avisynth filters and for encoding to DVD, BluRay, and AVCHD. So sooner or later you need Lagarith anyway.

Get Lagarith here: http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html . Download its .exe installer, run it, and restart VirtualDub if you want to see it listed under "compression".

When you first start VirtualDub, click on the top "Video" menu and then click "Full processing mode". After you do that, the "Video" drop-down menu should look like this:


[Attachment 22090 - Click to enlarge]

You should see "color depth..." and "compression..." as available choices. Click on "Color depth..." and set it up as shown below:


[Attachment 22091 - Click to enlarge]

Click OK and return to the main menu, then click on "Video" again. Click "Compression..." and look for Lagarith in the list. Select Lagarith and then click on the "Configure" button, as shown here:


[Attachment 22092 - Click to enlarge]

In Lagarith's "configure" panel, set up as shown here:


[Attachment 22093 - Click to enlarge]

Click OK and OK again until you get back to the main VirtualDub window. Then click "Video" again and set it to "fast recompress", as shown:


[Attachment 22094 - Click to enlarge]

Now you can open the AVi capture and save it to a smaller file with a new name.

[Oldretiredguy]

Thanks Sanlyn, I did as you suggested and I have it all working beautifully. Now maybe I can proceed with the next part of the learning curve. I look forward to doing some actual editing but I don't have a clue where to start. So, I guess I will have to wait for you guys to get me off high center. I'm also going to upload the first test.avi file after compressing it. With a new name.


R

[Brad]

As was suggested earlier, I think you should try getting a feel for the brightness/contrast adjustments by playing around with them while a tape is playing (not capturing) and the histogram is on.

Ignore what I said here:

You won't actually see red at the left edge of the histogram, because the device is cutting off values below black.

Comment for the peanut gallery, not Ray: Whatever decoder AVISource is using on my system for UYVY converts to RGB.

[sanlyn]

I didn't have that problem with UYVY. The problem was with the huffyuv/YUY2 files. I had no problem with AviSource/UYVY. In any case, I converted both to YV12 or YUY2 for Avisynth, then saved with Lagarith. Going straight to RGB crushed darks and blew out highlights.

For the huffyuv/YV12 samples, I had to turn on my ffdshow version of huffyuv to correctly open those clips with DirectSHowSource. Then I have to disable ffdshow's huffyuv, or other "standard" huffyuv vids don't decode correctly. I spent a lot of time recently recompressing old huffyuv captures to Lagarith due to problems with various flavors of huffyuv. Too much of a hassle.

[Oldretiredguy]

Just curious here. Anybody still out there? Haven't seen or heard a peep.

R

[Brad]

Just waiting on what you need help with. Are you comfortable with the levels adjustments?

[Oldretiredguy]

Ok vaporeon800, I'll get on it and mess around with those two settings. Busy weekend and time of year. I thought maybe everyone lost interest in my project. Let me know what other stuff to work on too.

R

[jagabo]

The black level is still too low on test 1.1.avi.

[sanlyn]

Nope. we were waiting for a response or a video from you, or any of your questions. We have some threads that are goin on 3 years, and I worked on one project almost every day for 17 months. Your last AVI was an improvement in some ways (but I think you need to have the VCR's TBC turned on for that Hawaii tape, but keep the "Digital R3" sharpener turned off). Once you understand what a more workable capture looks like and how to avoid problems, it's time to fry your brain with how to filter and clean VHS captures.

No great rush. We know it's holiday time (tell the truth, I'm more of the "bah-humbug" type. Let's give out the presents, say a prayer of thanks, then veg out for a couple of days). If there is anything you don't understand about remarks concerning your last capture, let us know.

[Oldretiredguy]

Nope. we were waiting for a response or a video from you, or any of your questions. We have some threads that are goin on 3 years, and I worked on one project almost every day for 17 months. Your last AVI was an improvement in some ways (but I think you need to have the VCR's TBC turned on for that Hawaii tape, but keep the "Digital R3" sharpener turned off). Once you understand what a more workable capture looks like and how to avoid problems, it's time to fry your brain with how to filter and clean VHS captures.

No great rush. We know it's holiday time (tell the truth, I'm more of the "bah-humbug" type. Let's give out the presents, say a prayer of thanks, then veg out for a couple of days). If there is anything you don't understand about remarks concerning your last capture, let us know.

Me too Bah Humbug. I used to own a Hallmark Card and Gift Shop. Boy, that will sure screw up what fun you might have had during any holiday time. I hate holidays now. I just can't get over the bad experiences with humans. They suck in most cases. Bad parents are the worst.

Anyway, not sure what "Digital R3" is or where it is controlled. I did turn the TBC back on. I will make another video and try some of the changes suggested. I have to fit this hobby in around the crap my wife comes up with. Oh well, 44 years of marriage has more or less neutered me. Thanks for your help.

R

[sanlyn]

Anyway, not sure what "Digital R3" is or where it is controlled. I did turn the TBC back on. I will make another video and try some of the changes suggested.

When you can, try another capture so we can check it out and explain more about any problems we see. The last one one was better than the others. Digital R3 is a sharpener, but sometimes it can overdo it and create digital artifacts. It's a rather primitive sharpener, not the sort of enhancement that is used today.

Attached is a copy of the 7500U VCR user guide in Adobe Reader PDF format, as posted on the JVC support website. Setting the TBC/NR and Digital R3 are explained on page 37, with images (page numbers are in the upper right corner).

[RWH]

Oldretiredguy

From my interpretation of the manual.

Digital R3 is linked to TBC. So both on or both off.

The stabilize function is available in ep mode only. 2 hours SP. 4 hours LP or long play, 6 hours EP or extended play.

On page 8 Post #235 is a link to the manual. Here's a pdf of page 26 and 37.

edit: sanlyn beat me to it

edit: The times above are for T-120 tape. There is also T -160 and T-180. T-180 up to 9 hours of marginal quality video in EP mode

[Oldretiredguy]

Thanks to both of you. I wasn't sure if it was a vcr setting or a virtualdub setting. Now I know to look first before I ask. Anyway, I just tried to do some fiddling and I must admit that I am no further along than I was 300+ posts back in this thread. I just don't have a clue what I am doing. I wish one of you guys lived close to me so I could look over your shoulder and watch what you do. That is my best way of learning. I am going to go back to the virualdub literature and try reading so I have some idea of what to do. I can't get the controls to work in the mode that I want at a particular time and I just get beffuddled. Sorry for my denseness. I have never encountered anything in my life that was so confusing. Damn!!!

R

[RWH]

I have never encountered anything in my life that was so confusing. Damn!!!

R

You've been married for how long?

[sanlyn]

The VirtualDub capture setup can be confusing, I know. It behaves differently with different capture devices. One big problem is that you can't set its histogram and preview it's effects at the same time -- although the histogram will keep changing while a tape plays, even if the preview window is just showing a still image. One way around it is with the GraphEdit program -- but that's so convoluted, you're better off wrestling with Virtualdub.

Did the links to the three digitalfaq website articles give you any help about the basics of video and digital transfers? The links are in post #80 (page 3 of this thread). Many forum members got their start with digitalfaq's guides.

[Oldretiredguy]

You guys amaze me. How did you know that it was in post #80? When I try to read back I get lost. I will go back out to Digitalfaq and read. All the different places, software, weird names for things, I guess I just haven't been around it enough to get comfortable with what everything means. The names, words, abbreviations etc. Why can't they call this stuff what it is instead of giving it some freaking cryptic word or name. I really do feel like I have been plopped down in southeast Asia and I don't know what everybody is saying. It's all just sounds. Not words. I don't want to give up but I'm close.

R

[jagabo]

One way around it is with the GraphEdit program -- but that's so convoluted

It's not so convoluted. The only difficult thing is finding which filter has the video proc amp. Once you know what you're doing it only takes 10 seconds to set up. I didn't have a computer set up for analog video capture so I scrounged up some old parts to run XP to deal with this thread (that took more that 10 seconds!).

Start GraphEdit:



Select Graph -> Insert Filter:



The proc amp is usually found in Video Capture Sources (VFW devices) or WDM Streaming Capture Devices (DirectShow devices). I think I've also seen it in WDM Streaming Crossbar Devices. In the above image you can see ATI AVStream Analog Capture, the device I'm using. Highlight the device and press the Insert Filter. You'll see the filter in the main GraphEdit window:



You can close the Insert Filter dialog or leave it open (it doesn't block activity in the main GraphEdit window). Right click on the capture filter and select Properties. Go to the Video Proc Amp tab:



(If you don't have a Video Proc Amp tab go back to the Insert Filter dialog and try another capture device.) You should get live updates in the preview and histogram in VirtualDub as you move those sliders. If the histogram shows too much red:



(The preview picture shows up as a green block here because the program was using Video Overlay in Windows XP. Screen caps don't show the video under that setup. The preview picture was visible as I was using the program.)

Adjust the Brightness and Contrast sliders until you get rid of the red. Keep in mind that not every shot will have full black or full bright so you should adjust the sliders over a range of shots so that the histogram never (at least very rarely and only a little bit) goes into the red.

There are some exceptions to this. For example, some tapes may have black borders that are very black but the actual picture has a very light black level. In those cases you may be better off letting the borders drop into the red in order to get the black level of the picture closer to where it should be.

You may also be able to adjust the Hue, Contrast, Sharpness, and other settings depending on your capture device and driver. But you can worry about that later. The first thing is to get brightness and contrast set properly.

[Brad]

No need to mess with GraphEdit. He already got access to those settings with Video -> Levels in post #363 around the top of this page.

[Oldretiredguy]

I decided to give GraphEdit a try. Not too tough. But, I only get two sliders, brightness and contrast. I assume that's because of my cheap capture device. Also, in VirtualDub I get a histogram black bar below the capture screen but no red/blue. Just black. And that is when I'm in the capture AVI mode. Am I doing something incorrectly?
Another question, if I wanted to buy a better capture device, what should I be looking at? How much money etc.

R

[jagabo]

in VirtualDub I get a histogram black bar below the capture screen but no red/blue.

Did you switch to Video -> Preview?

Here's a trick you can try if you don't get a picture after switching to preview mode with the histogram enabled: Before starting VirtualDub start playing a video in a media player. Leave the player playing and start VirtualDub. Go to capture mode and set up for the histogram again. That may allow you to see both the histogram and the live video preview.

[RWH]

Oldretiredguy

It would be nice if your first project ended up perfect, or at least tweaked as close as possible. But if your not enjoying yourself the process starts to suck. I'm not going to suggest that you abandon the quest for perfection. However, with the knowledge you have gained and another program or three (AVStoDVD, VLC, Imgburn) you can make a very reasonable quality DVD in a short time. Adjust the controls (brightness, contrast or whatever) until they look good to you. Or don't, it's your project. Capture something, put the late Danny Ganz on DVD. You can make an .iso (it's just a file) and test it with VLC (just another media player that will play .iso's). Then burn a DVD with Imgburn if you want. Or Windows 7 built-in Disc Image Burner (before someone says it sucks, I just used it, on the cheapest blank media I could find). Once you have an .iso you can right click on it. Check out the menu, look in open with.

Anyways Oldretiredguy, good luck. Due to dire financial conditions after tonight I will be offline for the foreseeable future.

Happy December 25th to all.

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/VLC-media-player

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ImgBurn

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/AVStoDVD

Here's a tutorial on AVStoDVD.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/353284-AVStoDVD-beginners-guide-Any-video-to-DVD-Video