I am convinced that vcrs are better than Dvds

[usually_quiet]

I've never experienced any problems with VHS recordings degrading and I've always been careful enough not to get a DVD scratched.

I have seen a home recording on VHS tape degrade, even though it was stored in a cabinet in a living area and not exposed to harsh conditions. It was an RCA VHS cassette and only a few years old. Maybe it was defective from the start, but there was no way to tell that when it was new. My father inserted the bad tape in his VCR and not only did it not play, but since it was shedding oxide, nothing else would play afterwards until the heads were cleaned. I also had a well-used tape that broke, and caused damage to the player.

I have seen some DVDs fail too, mostly re-writable media, but at least none of them damaged the player. I suppose if the DVD were cracked and flew apart, or its label came off, it would destroy the player, but likely someone would notice that the potential for disaster existed and would not try to play it.

[vcruser]

All good points.

[Deter]

Commercials? You live in the stone age. It is not that hard to edit them out.

Scratches, you can buff out, if the DVD is wrecked go buy another one.

[vcruser]

If I take a picture of my first dvd, I'm sure some of you would cry.

[Cornucopia]

Talk about tangents! Even the OP uses side arguements and apples-to-oranges comparisons to support his thesis.

A few scientific truths to debunk your impressions...

#1 CD/DVD/BD uses no covering, so it is more "exposed" to the vagaries of its environment. Even with their progressively more impervious materials, treating them badly can wreck them. VHS, on the other hand, is ALWAYS inside it's case! That's what the tape shell is, a shell/covering. I guarantee you, if you tried working with VHS tape as if it were open reel material, it probably wouldn't have lasted a WEEK, let alone the decades that "uncovered" optical disc material regularly enjoys. Note: for EXACTING and MISSION-CRITICAL professional applications, there have been optical media that does have a covering (known in their parlance as a "caddy"). And those enjoy virtually none of the data erosion common to uncovered discs.

#2 Player lifespan is a product of the companies creating them and the era in which they were created. If you bought a brand newly made VCR, you would find a much huger proportion of low-quality plastic parts compared to a decade or 2 or 3 ago. Many tech products are just made more flimsily; it's just a matter of our current social construct (for good or ill). You can compare CD players made 20 years ago with those recent ones and see similar changes in manufacturing practice, where the old CD player (if the motor hasn't worn out) will continue to work consistently well compared to a CD player of just a few years ago. DVD players, and to an even greater extent BD players, just don't have the extended history with which to see this comparison. But make no mistake: old (and even some new) VCRs are fraught with problems, mainly mechanical. That's one of the big motivating factors with using optical media: much less moving parts. In fact, that is still motivating people, which is why the newer digital download formats a so popular. They have virtually NO moving parts to wear out (you could count harddrive mechanics, but not if the data is on flash/ssd media).

#3 I wouldn't be quite so harsh in my reaction to the child misuse arguement as others, but ultimately they are right. That totally the fault of bad stewardship habits (and bad parenting, when it extends to progeny). Blame the perp not the victim.

Scott

<edit>Plus, one can take a perfect copy of CD/DVD/BD and keep the copy for regular use (where there might be some usage wear) and keep the original pristine in storage, whereas you cannot do that with VHS. It must always be transferred/converted, with some inherent loss in quality. QUALITY? While there's no accounting for the occasional bad mastering practices (both to VHS/Beta tape and to optical digital media), the capacity for quality is many magnitudes greater with optical digital media. No comparison, case closed!

Reconstruction of bad material is one area where analog, on the surface, might look better (because of its gradual degradation curve), but in digital, one can use some seriously wizardly processes to recover material. Some of those might be beyond YOUR ability to make use of (knowledge, time, & cost sometimes being a factor), but even with the digital "cliff" involved, one still sometimes pull things back out of the abyss, which would be impossible with analog material.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Commercials? You live in the stone age. It is not that hard to edit them out.

Scratches, you can buff out, if the DVD is wrecked go buy another one.

I'm not talking about commercials recorded from TV but the adverts and title cards that you can't skip at the beginning of allot of films on DVD and BD.

Anyway, I'm in now way saying VHS is better. I prefer DVDs, but VHS still has a certain charm.

[Selur]

it might just be a matter of perspective:
VHS cassette -> better suited to smash someones head in
CD/DVD/Blu-ray/.. disc -> better suited to slice someones throat

[Cornucopia]

Commercials? You live in the stone age. It is not that hard to edit them out.

Scratches, you can buff out, if the DVD is wrecked go buy another one.

I'm not talking about commercials recorded from TV but the adverts and title cards that you can't skip at the beginning of allot of films on DVD and BD.

Anyway, I'm in now way saying VHS is better. I prefer DVDs, but VHS still has a certain charm.

You do know about PUOs, right? Those are programmed into the disc by the producer, ON PURPOSE. Of course, the beauty of DVDs is that you can make a ripped copy that has those PUOs removed, giving you what you desire: complete control over program advancement.

Well, that's about my fill of this silliness. Spoofing aside, nostalgia is one thing, but nostalgia that is so NOT rooted in the reality of historical context borders on Luddite-ism.

Scott

<edit>BTW, a simple browsing of recent threads will show NUMEROUS instances of people still working around vcr repair, searching for those elusive still-working good models on ebay, and scripts to FIX already-messed-up material that was transferred to digital. Clear examples of how vcrs & VHS/Beta tapes really are NOT the wondrous devices you seem to covet.

[vcruser]

I know that each format has its merits, and I also know that not everyone likes VCRs. And forgive me, but I am a newbie. What is an OP?

[manono]

And forgive me, but I am a newbie. What is an OP?

Original Poster, i.e. you.

And I'm with Cornucopia that you're a Luddite. I'm just surprised this idiot thread has gone on as long as it has.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

<edit>BTW, a simple browsing of recent threads will show NUMEROUS instances of people still working around vcr repair, searching for those elusive still-working good models on ebay, and scripts to FIX already-messed-up material that was transferred to digital. Clear examples of how vcrs & VHS/Beta tapes really are NOT the wondrous devices you seem to covet.

Well to be fair this is a forum where people go for help on problems isn't it.

I mean people don't normally come on here and say "my VCR is working fine" because that would be pointless.

Anyway, I never said VCRs were wondrous. In fact your seem to be very selective in what you read. I said that I hadn't had many problems with either DVD or VHS. I also said I prefer DVD so please don't pigeon hole me into the VHS camp just because I like VHS and DVD.

[vcruser]

And forgive me, but I am a newbie. What is an OP?

Original Poster, i.e. you.

And I'm with Cornucopia that you're a Luddite. I'm just surprised this idiot thread has gone on as long as it has.

Thank you.

[vcruser]

I can't seem to find any DVD player that will last over a year. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

[usually_quiet]

I can't seem to find any DVD player that will last over a year. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

I bought a $40 Philips player (not exactly a premium item) for my parents five years ago as a Christmas gift that is still in good shape. Its only used a couple of times a week, but even so, I have to wonder what people do to their DVD players that shortens the lifespan to a year.


Anyway, all recent DVD players from names like Sony and Toshiba are now what used to be considered budget models, not the same build quality as the $100 models that they used to sell in 2005. You may have better luck if you buy a $100-$150 Blu-Ray player from one of the big names which may have a more robust build quality than what is now typical for their DVD players.

[Cornucopia]

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar, I really wasn't referring to you so much as the OP. My only direct response to you was the bit about the PUOs.

Somebody who can't find a workable DVD player that lasts longer than a year is just in the habit of buying shit. There are plenty of them (good ones) out there. I have 2 DVD players & 2 BluRay players and a mobile DVD player/TV combo, all of which are over 2 years. All work fine.

Scott

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar, I really wasn't referring to you so much as the OP. My only direct response to you was the bit about the PUOs.

Ah, ok fair enough.

[vcruser]

I usually only watch a dvd once a week. My first Dvd player was a cyberhome which lasted about 3 years before it stopped turning on. Then I got a copy which broke after a few months. Then I got a Curtis player which lasted a year. I do have a cyber portable player that's 2 years which works fine.

[vcruser]

I also have a panasonic dvd player that works. I'm currently hunting for a good player to go with my Sony crt in my bedroom.

[usually_quiet]

I usually only watch a dvd once a week. My first Dvd player was a cyberhome which lasted about 3 years before it stopped turning on. Then I got a copy which broke after a few months. Then I got a Curtis player which lasted a year. I do have a cyber portable player that's 2 years which works fine.

As Cornucopia said, you have been in the habit of buying crap. My sister bought a Cyberhome at the grocery store a few years ago that also broke in no time. Spend $40 and get a Sony or Toshiba DVD player instead, and your chances of it lasting more than a year will improve. You can't use a recent Blu-Ray player unless the TV has HDMI.

[vcruser]

Well those players were presents and who can complain about a free player? I can. Are Panasonics any good?

[vcruser]

Most bd players don't have composite outputs anymore?

[usually_quiet]

Well those players were presents and who can complain about a free player? I can. Are Panasonics any good?

Panasonic DVD players are fine, but I think they stopped making DVD players recently. There could still be some available though.

Most bd players don't have composite outputs anymore?

I have not seen any 2013 model BD players that have analog outputs, and some 2012 models didn't have them either. One of the conditions of being granted an AACS license to decrypt commercial Blu-Ray discs is that there can be no analog outputs on models approved in 2013.

[yoda313]

like always being able to continue a film form exactly were you left off, being able to fast forward through any adverts at the beginning of the tape

Usually if you have a player with memory like a smart player you should have a last memory ability on it. It will pick up where you left off.

Heck I have an old cyberhome dvd player that still works that has a last memory feature (no storage memory like a harddrive so I don't know how it's actually done, some kind of fixed rom memory that stores it? Must be since ram is volitale and non permanent - though it might only be one disc and not every disc, that must be it I think).

And has been mentioned the advertisements can be removed upon ripping.

But if anyone has noticed at least with FOX dvds you can usually skip past the fbi warnings. At least you can on my star wars dvds (the originals I mean, the pressed discs you can skip)

Players like a ps3 or xbox 360 have the resume feature since they have internal memory to store the save points.

I honestly can't remember if my sony standalone bluray player does the resume thing on discs (its separate from my ps3, ie just a bluray player with smart apps - vudu/youtube/netflix etc).

[vcruser]

I actually have a Panasonic VCR paired with a Panasonic DVD player. I must say, they go great together. This post was actually just to help me vent. I bought a DVD that had three movies. It had one two sided DVD and one normal DVD. The double sided DVD skipped so badly it was unwatchable. It was brand new, but no warranty. The only two VHS tapes that have degraded noticeably is Toy Story, which has a very fuzzy picture no matter what VCR I use, and Home Alone 4, which has a bent picture at the top of the screen. Those tapes were both second hand. My VHS tape of a third grade concert from 6 years ago still plays fine.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar]

Usually if you have a player with memory like a smart player you should have a last memory ability on it. It will pick up where you left off.

Heck I have an old cyberhome dvd player that still works that has a last memory feature (no storage memory like a harddrive so I don't know how it's actually done, some kind of fixed rom memory that stores it? Must be since ram is volitale and non permanent - though it might only be one disc and not every disc, that must be it I think).

And has been mentioned the advertisements can be removed upon ripping.

But if anyone has noticed at least with FOX dvds you can usually skip past the fbi warnings. At least you can on my star wars dvds (the originals I mean, the pressed discs you can skip)

Players like a ps3 or xbox 360 have the resume feature since they have internal memory to store the save points.

I honestly can't remember if my sony standalone bluray player does the resume thing on discs (its separate from my ps3, ie just a bluray player with smart apps - vudu/youtube/netflix etc).

Oh yeah, I know. It's very handy indeed. I have a great Pioneer DVD player that seems to remember where I left things from last year!

But say you started a film downstairs and you got kicked off the TV by your kids/wife or whatever and you had to move to a different TV. Not many ways you can get around that.

And I have a Blu-Ray player that never seems to remember where I left off. It's the Sony BDP-S370.

[smrpix]

But say you started a film downstairs and you got kicked off the TV by your kids/wife or whatever and you had to move to a different TV. Not many ways you can get around that.

..except advancing through those chapter thingies.

[vcruser]

Thats not fun though.

[jimdagys]

I felt the need to pipe in on this topic.
You could ask a public librarian whose been working for 25 years with audio visual. He/she could give you statistics. In my opinion, such a person might say that vcr tapes last longer and that many DVDs have to be thrown out after a few years because of severe playback problems. But in today's throw away society, a few year's use may be just fine. DVDs take up less shelf space, and weigh less, a concern for libraries. On the other hand, I think there is a bigger variation of playback ability between DVD players and VCRs. My DVD player (bought in 2001) won't play a lot of DVDs. The solution is just to copy the DVD; the copy plays fine.

[vcruser]

My opinion remains firm though. I just wish I could get my magnavox vcr to work. I think it was made before funai.

[HanFrolo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence