Background music for commercial video

[plnelson]

I want to make a series of educational videos for artists. These would be distributed either as DVD's or on a pay/subscription streaming service. I want to have some decent background music and I want to do it perfectly legally.

Where can I learn more about distribution rights for the background music used in videos? What are some sources for such music and how are the royalty/licensing arrangements made? Is there a good introductory website or tutorial on this topic?

Thanks in advance.

[zoobie]

You're probably better off purchasing "buy-out" music where you own it and can use it as many times as you wish. I think I bought a few cd's from footagefirm/videoblocks for $8 each to bolster a recent production. Luckily, I'm a musician and rarely have to do such.

[plnelson]

You're probably better off purchasing "buy-out" music where you own it and can use it as many times as you wish. I think I bought a few cd's from footagefirm/videoblocks for $8 each to bolster a recent production. Luckily, I'm a musician and rarely have to do such.

I went to their website and listened to some of their music and it all sounds like cheap synthesized crap. I want to use real music - preferably classical.

I'm also surprised that in 24 hours I only got 1 response to this question. Is this the wrong place to ask this?
All the more specialized forums seem to be related to technical questions. A lot of my video-related questions are not so much technical but more related to production, distribution, composition, or, stuff like this thread.

[Brainiac]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

[plnelson]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

I looked at them - the classical tracks are very short - they all seem to max out at 4 minutes, which is less than 1 movement of most of the works they feature.

The videos I'm making will be 30 minutes or 1 hour long.

How do I arrange licensing and royalties through BMI or ASCAP to use an existing commercial work? I've seen zillions of corporate videos and indie videos and flicks that are clearly using commercial material so I know this is done routinely. Where can I find a website that takes you through the steps of doing it?

And, same question as above - where is the right forum to ask these kinds of questions?

[Hoser Rob]

I'm not sure there is a forum specifically for what you want. Google is your friend.

As far as those low budget movies go, they don't usually go to ASCAP etc to license material. They can't afford it. What they do is hire some local unsigned musicians to do their imitations of more well known artists. It's cheaper that way.

[Brainiac]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

I looked at them - the classical tracks are very short - they all seem to max out at 4 minutes, which is less than 1 movement of most of the works they feature.

Not true if you use the Sonicfire software and purchase individual albums. I have the Classical Favorites album and just rendered a 10 minute wav file of Blue Danube. And there are variations of each song title. Some of the albums have what's called mood mapping that allows you to change the mood of the music at key points in the video. Right now they are having a sale on Albums- regular price $99 on sale for $29. Ends midnight tonight.

As for your other questions, I have no idea what the answers are.

Brainiac

[plnelson]

I'm not sure there is a forum specifically for what you want. Google is your friend.

As far as those low budget movies go, they don't usually go to ASCAP etc to license material. They can't afford it. What they do is hire some local unsigned musicians to do their imitations of more well known artists. It's cheaper that way.

I don't think that would be cheaper than paying a royalty. Especially if you count the time you spend finding a local musician, explaining your project, etc. Plus whatever his fee is.

But VideoHelp is a forum for videographers so I'd like to hear what people have actually done. Brainiac has used SmartSound. There's another outfit called PremiumBreat. How are they?

[plnelson]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

I looked at them - the classical tracks are very short - they all seem to max out at 4 minutes, which is less than 1 movement of most of the works they feature.

Not true if you use the Sonicfire software and purchase individual albums. I have the Classical Favorites album and just rendered a 10 minute wav file of Blue Danube.

For Blue Danube, under Track Lengths, it says
"

Full (04:00) Default Full "

So how would someone know that there's 10 minutes of Blue Danube on the album? It also list 15, 30 and 60 seconds.


I'm certainly not going to buy something by midnight tonight because I'm still planning my project. But I want to get an overview of the choices, legal issues, and general process videographers use when making a commercial video.

[_Al_]

That is something you have to try first, otherwise you will not believe it, if you are no musician, musician maybe get that all how it works with less awesomeness. Music is split into blocks and you can rebuild song so it works for you. You just move those blocks on timeline to build your new version of song. Shorten it, Extend it ...

[Brainiac]

What you saw on the website are tracks of defined lengths that you can purchase, but you can specify specific lengths too. If you have the software and separate albums, then you have a LOT more that you can do. Yeah, you pay more for the albums, but you get way more flexibility. The albums do NOT have maximum length tracks. You simply designate how long you want the track to be and then the software builds it for you.

Brainiac

[plnelson]

That is something you have to try first, otherwise you will not believe it, if you are no musician, musician maybe get that all how it works with less awesomeness. Music is split into blocks and you can rebuild song so it works for you. You just move those blocks on timeline to build your new version of song. Shorten it, Extend it ...

I'm sorry; I can't parse this at all.

[plnelson]

What you saw on the website are tracks of defined lengths that you can purchase, but you can specify specific lengths too. If you have the software and separate albums, then you have a LOT more that you can do. Yeah, you pay more for the albums, but you get way more flexibility. The albums do NOT have maximum length tracks. You simply designate how long you want the track to be and then the software builds it for you.

Brainiac

I have no idea what you're talking about! The Blue Danube, to take your example, has a score written by the composer, Strauss; it has a certain length played at a certain tempo. Depending on the tempo it's played at the Blue Danube is typically between 9:40 and 10:15 long. You can't just make it some arbitrary length or insert or remove parts without it being obvious. Listeners would immediately recognise that it's been messed with.

I could see how you could get away with that with some sort of ambient/house/trance music like SmartSound uses in their demo because that music is artificially constructed to start with by some DJ or mix artist, plus no one knows the music anyway so no one would recognise when it's been mucked with.

[_Al_]

I'm sorry; I can't parse this at all.

That is why you have to try it first.

Every song you can break into segments and those segments might end or start with different variation. You could have more than one segment in a song that connects well together with other segments. You can match certain ending of a segment with different segment and it makes nice transition. Think of domino gameplay, where one domino end has to match other domino, but in song there could be more segments than one that match well.

You do not even realize that until somebody breaks down a composition into those segments and you can handle them separately, putting them one after another like bricks on timeline. That software gives you hints what blocks are usable (changes colors or something, do not remember exactly) so it matches your previous block musically well enough, segment that you have laid on timeline previously.

Or you just choose a time duration and software, using those techniques, automatically creates song version for that duration. Long, long time ago Adobe Premiere sold their NLE with limited version of SmartSound where it worked that way, setting songs length and it created that version for certain composition. But to construct song length manually Sonic Fire Pro was needed. That was some time ago, not sure 100% how it works now, maybe names are changed.

Nowadays there might be better softwares or different ways how to do it, I don't know. I'm just trying to explain that creation of a different length version for a composition. It gets expensive (or it was) to purchase those break down songs, done by musicians or albums, libraries with those songs.

[plnelson]

I'm sorry; I can't parse this at all.

That is why you have to try it first.

Every song you can break into segments and those segments might end or start with different variation. You could have more than one segment in a song that connects well together with other segments. You can match certain ending of a segment with different segment and it makes nice transition.

So what? I'm not interested in turning a great piece of classical or jazz music into some remixed dance-club synthetic FrankenMuzak. That's disrespectful of the original composer's creative vision and it would be disrespectful of my audience listening to it. I see videos that do that all the time and they sound like crap - just 21st century elevator music. Besides I don't want a new career as a DJ or mix artist.

Plenty of videos use real, recognisable music by actual artists and composers. And they're not just big hollywood studios or ad agencies with armies of lawyers to make the arrangements. I just want to know how this is done. I didn't think it was a hard question.

[smrpix]

So what? I'm not interested in turning a great piece of classical or jazz music into some remixed dance-club synthetic FrankenMuzak. That's disrespectful of the original composer's creative vision and it would be disrespectful of my audience listening to it. I see videos that do that all the time and they sound like crap - just 21st century elevator music.

In films and videos music is often trimmed or looped to fit -- nothing Frankenmusic or disrespectful about it. If it's done with a decent ear (which it usually is) the audience is generally accepting. How that turns it into elevator or club music I don't understand.

Libraries llike sonicfire are composed (or arranged) to be assembled in blocs as needed. Since you're a musician you'll understand: Intro, A, A, B, B, C, underscore, A, B, Conclusion for example.

"Real" music rights can be acquired through BMI or ASCAP, you've answered your own question. Go to their websites for details.

[Brainiac]

Okay, I only used Blue Danube as an example. I am NOT a musician, so I do not know all of the technical terms and nuances of music. I was simply trying to give you an idea of what could be achieved with the software.

Brainiac

[_Al_]

plnelson - those collections of music are not classical pieces of music, I told you, you not going to believe this until you try it

[_Al_]

Intro, A, A, B, B, C, underscore, A, B, Conclusion for example.

Thank you for more clear explanation, I am not a musician, that is what I try to lay down, those collection compositions have emphasis on that block structure. Some of those blocks, segments, perhaps have just different ending so it make transition with other segments, in layman terms, segment is ending with a bit different notes and that creates build up to start different, other variations of segments in that compositions. Or a block could be just certain transition. And software gives hints what segments can follow previous ones so it is musically ok. I think this is what musicians might do anyway mixing songs in studio.

[filmboss80]

There are numerous companies and firms that specialize in background music for media projects. Some offer cheap synthesized cuts, while others go full instrumentation. Every style imaginable is out there, and it is not just MUZAK. Go out and find what you need. We're not going to do the footwork for you. The search terms for your investigation should include "royalty free music" or "buyout music."

If you want to use an established song, you will need to go through a music licensing agent. (BMI and ASCAP used to do this. I don't know if they still do.) Expect to pay through the nose. You can search using the term "music licensing" or "music royalty fees."

A third option is to hire local musicians to compose a piece for you. Contact a local television or radio station and find out what artists they hire out for jingles and background beds.

As smrpix explained, _Al_'s comment had to do with editing segments of a music bed to better fit the timing and tempo of the video. Try not to be so dismissive of the helpful contributions to this thread.

[plnelson]

Libraries llike sonicfire are composed (or arranged) to be assembled in blocs as needed. Since you're a musician you'll understand: Intro, A, A, B, B, C, underscore, A, B, Conclusion for example.

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm a musician

"Real" music rights can be acquired through BMI or ASCAP, you've answered your own question. Go to their websites for details.

I'd like to find out from professional videographers who've done it, what the process is and what are good strategies to keep costs under control. For example, I thought the Bach Cello Suites might be good background music for the art class. They've been recorded by countless musicians over the years. And I'm sure the licensing costs would be a lot less if I sought the rights to a recording by some conservatory student in Oslo than the Yo-Yo-Ma recordings on Sony Records, for example. So how do I find out what's available to license and who represents them - ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are not the only games in town, just the best known.

On Youtube and Vimeo and other places I see lots of videos with real, recognisable music on them. Unless all the other ones are stolen and illegal, then we must presume that arranging rights to published music is not all that rare and arcane.

[budwzr]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

I looked at them - the classical tracks are very short - they all seem to max out at 4 minutes, which is less than 1 movement of most of the works they feature.

No problem, just "loop" them. Find two places where the notes are similar and just fade it back around between those two points.

Or crop several short loops and remix into a whole new song. Classical doesn't have vocals so you're already ahead of the game.

You can even have a "dueling banjos" piece with Bach against Mozart.

Do you have a sample? Let me see if I can cook up something interesting.

[plnelson]

There are numerous companies and firms that specialize in background music for media projects. Some offer cheap synthesized cuts, while others go full instrumentation. Every style imaginable is out there, and it is not just MUZAK. Go out and find what you need. We're not going to do the footwork for you. The search terms for your investigation should include "royalty free music" or "buyout music."

I've probably been to a dozen "royalty free" and I have not seen any that offer complete, full-length classical or jazz works. Remember, I'm making videos that will be 30 minutes or 1 hour. And I don't need to break up the music - it will start at the beginning and go to the end just like in a real drawing session.

If you want to use an established song, you will need to go through a music licensing agent. (BMI and ASCAP used to do this. I don't know if they still do.) Expect to pay through the nose. You can search using the term "music licensing" or "music royalty fees."

I haven't seen any that talk about the process, especially as it pertains to independent video. There's a lot of discussion for DJ's or businesses that play background music on the PA or summer camps that play music for the kiddies. . BMI and ASCAP aren't going to hand out free advice about cost-effective strategies - that's something only another videographer who's done it would know. And especially WRT to classical, where the same piece has been performed by a zillion different artists over many decades, clearly some will be cheaper than others. And how does the distribution format of our videos - DVD versus streaming, Vimeo Pro vs YouTube affect what we'll end up paying, or how we're audited for it?

[plnelson]

I use Smartsound when I need high quality background music. The albums and tracks are pricey, but I think it's worth it. Right now, I believe they are running a sale on albums.

Brainiac

I looked at them - the classical tracks are very short - they all seem to max out at 4 minutes, which is less than 1 movement of most of the works they feature.

No problem, just "loop" them. Find two places where the notes are similar and just fade it back around between those two points.

Videos that do that (and there are plenty of them) - just repeating the same short segment over and over again - are really irritating and sound really amateurish because it makes it sound like the producer of the video was too cheap to get real music.

Or crop several short loops and remix into a whole new song. Classical doesn't have vocals so you're already ahead of the game.

I don't know what vocals have to do with it. Instrumental passages are just as distinct as words. Besides if Chopin or Bach already wrote a beautiful piece of music nothing that an amateur mix artist does will do anything but degrade it.

[budwzr]

[Not Germane]

[Des]

This might be worth a look:
http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/public-domain-recordings.html

--dES

[filmboss80]

BMI and ASCAP aren't going to hand out free advice about cost-effective strategies - that's something only another videographer who's done it would know. And especially WRT to classical, where the same piece has been performed by a zillion different artists over many decades, clearly some will be cheaper than others. And how does the distribution format of our videos - DVD versus streaming, Vimeo Pro vs YouTube affect what we'll end up paying, or how we're audited for it?

http://www.dmx.com/services/video/licensing

http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/types_of_copyrights

The type of license you're looking for is called a Synchronization License.

You seem to be under the misconception that there is some common technique to circumvent the system or come up with a strategy to get a cheap price. Certainly, you have the option to go directly to the copyright holder of the performance work and negotiate a price. Otherwise, you go through the broker.

There is not sufficient demand for long, extended classical and jazz works in the royalty-free production music market, so they don't make it.

Of course, old classical compositions are in the public domain, and if you want to hire your own musicians...

None of the solutions offered in this forum thread may be what you had hoped to hear, but there are certain realities you're going to have to accept.

[smrpix]

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm a musician

Your advocacy for the composer's vision led me to a mistaken conclusion.

I thought the Bach Cello Suites might be good background music for the art class. T... And I'm sure the licensing costs would be a lot less if I sought the rights to a recording by some conservatory student in Oslo

There are two basic kinds of rights, performance and publishing. Classical works are in the public domain so there is no fee due to a publisher. Nothing stops you from coming to any agreement you like with (non-signatory) musicians or composers.

ASCAP and BMI have different tiers of pricing (and availability) depending on your usage.

On Youtube and Vimeo and other places I see lots of videos with real, recognisable music on them. Unless all the other ones are stolen and illegal, then we must presume that arranging rights to published music is not all that rare and arcane.

Thieves, the lot of them. Unless there's some actual profit involved, it's usually not worth the copyright holder's time and trouble to come after you. You'd likely get a cease and desist first. (This is practical advice, not legal advice.)

Anyway, over the course of these posts, you've gotten an overview of what's done.

[zoobie]

Another option would be to learn all the instruments you need then simply record your music for as long as you wish.

[budwzr]

I remember seeing those one man bands at the circus. Maybe get a tuba and a cello and glue them back to back, then flip them round to switch off, for 30 minutes.

Maybe throw some opera in there and really make it high touch. Like super spiffy. MEMBERS ONLY, right? The piece of resistance.