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  1. Member
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    Hi there.

    I end up with following issue. I have about 50 VHS cassettes. Half of them have been recorded in NTSC and the others in PAL.
    I use multisystem VHS player/recorder Sony SLV ED828 and laptop Toshiba bought in Canada. To capture those VHS I use EASY Cup hardware and attached to it software. When I played my NTSC tapes I could easily capture them. However when I started to play any PAL tapes my screen on the Easy Cap software shows video in black and white only. I have tried to connect my VHS player directly to TV and I have all colors on TV screen so my player is able to decode PAL VHS tapes.

    Can anyone help me with my issue? Am I missing any software?

    Thank you in advance for your help.

    koze
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    What software ?

    You need to change the input setting in the capture software to PAL. If the software does not allow this then you must use other capture software.
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    software I am using: Honestech VHS to DVD 2.0SE. I have change those settings with this program from NTSC to PAL but on this program view screen is black and white instead colour.
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    Sounds like an issue with the VCR outputting PAL and capture card having an issue. Seems like the card is not switching to PAL input correctly. I would try another capture software.
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  5. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Did you install your software as PAL?
    Why kind of SCART to RCA adapter are you using?
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I do wonder if this VCR really is multi-system.

    For the US, unless I am mistaken, a PAL VHS should NOT display on a NTSC tv unless the tv was also multi-system. Unless........

    The VCR was outputing PAL-M/N which is closer to NTSC than PAL-B/I.

    Your hardware/sofware is probably expecting PAL-B/I. If your software can not set to PAL-M/N try another capture program such as Virtual VCR which can.
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    Thank you for your prompt answer.
    Yes, my VCR is multi-system. When I connected VCR to my TV I could see color streaming on TV (PAL and NTSC cassettes).My TV is also muti-system. VHS to DVD 2.0SE has an option to capture video in NTSC or PAL. I tried to switch to PAL but no success. I will try another software. I also have Adobe Premier Elements 12. If not I will try Virtual VCR.
    Maybe I need some additional codecs?
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  8. Member hech54's Avatar
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    DO NOT mess with codecs.....that is not your problem. You have enough problems trying to get an EZCrap to work.....and you have a laptop....BAD combination.
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    DO NOT mess with codecs.....that is not your problem. You have enough problems trying to get an EZCrap to work.....and you have a laptop....BAD combination.
    EZCrap was working fine with my laptop on NTSC. That's why I don't understand why now with PAL is problem.
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  10. Member DB83's Avatar
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    You should also check the VCR manual to see what signal is being sent out over composite.
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  11. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by koze View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    DO NOT mess with codecs.....that is not your problem. You have enough problems trying to get an EZCrap to work.....and you have a laptop....BAD combination.
    EZCrap was working fine with my laptop on NTSC. That's why I don't understand why now with PAL is problem.
    When you first installed Honestech - were you asked to choose PAL, NTSC or some sort of tuner region info?
    I'm still not understanding how you seem to have captured NTSC.....with that PAL VCR....without changing the settings to PAL60 or without you even mentioning PAL60.
    PAL tape through a PAL VCR should be the easy one.
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  12. Member DB83's Avatar
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    hech54

    The OP stated he has a multi-system VCR not a PAL one. The one he has should play ANY VHS, including Secam. He also said he has a multi-system tv to be able to display these PAL VHSs in color. PAL-60 does not come in to the equation with such a VCR.

    Now I really wish I could find a manual for this VCR since some multi-system are described thus but are not so. Certainly there is a Phillips model that claims so but only outputs PAL-M/N. That would not affect the OPs tv since PAL-M/N is PAL but with NTSC color which is the opposite of PAL-60 which is NTSC with PAL color.

    I agree with you though that this might be solved by un-installing the software and re-installing it as PAL instead of as NTSC. If the picture is still in Black and White then it really is a NTSC variant that is being outputted and not pure PAL.

    But there may also be a setting on the VCR itself as to the composite signal it sends. Still awaiting the answer to that one.
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  13. Formerly 'vaporeon800' Brad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    PAL-M/N is PAL but with NTSC color which is the opposite of PAL-60 which is NTSC with PAL color.
    That sentence is exactly why we shouldn't be using color encoding schemes to refer to line rates; you managed to confuse even yourself. Any standard that begins with "PAL-" by definition doesn't use NTSC color.

    PAL-M: 525-line + PAL @ 3.58MHz
    PAL-N: 625-line + PAL @ 3.58MHz
    PAL-60: 525-line + PAL @ 4.43MHz
    NTSC 4.43: 525-line + NTSC @ 4.43MHz
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  14. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    hech54

    The OP stated he has a multi-system VCR not a PAL one. The one he has should play ANY VHS, including Secam. He also said he has a multi-system tv to be able to display these PAL VHSs in color. PAL-60 does not come in to the equation with such a VCR.
    PAL VCRs are "multi-system".
    Multi system VCRs are nothing but PAL VCRs that are switchable between 220v and 110v.
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  15. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vaporeon800 View Post
    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    PAL-M/N is PAL but with NTSC color which is the opposite of PAL-60 which is NTSC with PAL color.
    That sentence is exactly why we shouldn't be using color encoding schemes to refer to line rates; you managed to confuse even yourself. Any standard that begins with "PAL-" by definition doesn't use NTSC color.

    PAL-M: 525-line + PAL @ 3.58MHz
    PAL-N: 625-line + PAL @ 3.58MHz
    PAL-60: 525-line + PAL @ 4.43MHz
    NTSC 4.43: 525-line + NTSC @ 4.43MHz
    Yes, I did confuse the issue. Too much coffee

    Mow where is the OP ?
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    Hello again,
    So I did some homework. I have tried to use Adobe Premier Elements 12 and I got the same results. I was able to see my movie but only in black and white. Then I have installed Virtual VCR and the same- only black and white with audio. Then I have connected to regular NTSC TV and also black and white with audio only. Below is my Sony VHS manual for SLV-ED828ME.
    The other TV which I am able to see my tapes from my VCR in colour is PAL system (Europe).

    Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

    koze
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  17. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Page 53 - colour system - set it to PAL? Though auto should work.
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  18. Are you sure you don't have this backwards? A black and white capture of color VHS tape is the typical symptom of capturing NTSC VHS tapes played on a multisystem PAL VHS deck. Such systems output luma with NTSC timing characteristics (525 lines, 59.94 fields per second) but the chroma is modulated on a 4.43 MHz PAL carrier -- this is called PAL-60. Since the NTSC capture card is looking for color on a 3.58 MHz carrier it sees no color -- hence the black and white cap. Multisystem PAL TVs on the other hand understand the hybrid signal and display it in color. To capture PAL-60 with color requires a capture device that understands the PAL-60 signal. Search these forums for PAL-60 and you'll find many threads about it.
    Last edited by jagabo; 13th Nov 2013 at 11:44.
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  19. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    I don't think it's that kind of multisystem jagabo, but I'm not sure.

    I have plenty of VCRs like you describe - virtually every "recent" PAL VCR was like this.
    I also have a couple of true multi-standard VCRs which will FULLY convert between various format (albeit at low quality) or output in the original format as required.


    It looks like the OP's multistandard VCR works properly in three standards (technically far more than three, since it handles all broadcast variants of PAL, including different channel bandwidths and sound/vision spacings - not that any of this is broadcast anymore!), but doesn't convert in any way.


    I could be wrong. I've not seen one of these before. Yours would certainly be an easier explanation than the alternatives.


    Cheers,
    David.
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  20. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 2Bdecided View Post
    Page 53 - colour system - set it to PAL? Though auto should work.
    Agreed. But I would specifically set the color system since the Trouble-Shooting section (Page 58) specifically states this.
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  21. Originally Posted by 2Bdecided View Post
    I don't think it's that kind of multisystem jagabo, but I'm not sure.
    I'm not sure either. I offered it as another possibility, not knowing the OP's level of experience in these matters.

    I also agree that forcing the output format is a good suggestion.
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    Thank you All for your help. I am away for couple of days. Will go come back after November 26 and will follow with your suggestions.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by koze; 15th Nov 2013 at 12:05.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Originally Posted by 2Bdecided View Post
    Page 53 - colour system - set it to PAL? Though auto should work.
    Agreed. But I would specifically set the color system since the Trouble-Shooting section (Page 58) specifically states this.
    Before I left, I was able to change it from AUTO to PAL and still the same problem - stream is b/w.

    But what I have noticed and never mentioned before is when I connect my VCR to TV (NTSC) - menu is also displayed in b/w, although tape recorded in PAL is played in colours but when I connect to my multisystem TV - screen menu is in blue colour and tape recorded in PAL is played in colour as well.

    So in other words, my VCR can play NTSC recorded tapes on both TV systems (PAL and NTSC) but PAL recorded can be played in colour only on PAL (or multisystem TV's) and also my PC cannot display in colour tapes recorded in PAL played.

    Thank you again for your time.

    koze

    P.S. will be back in 10 days.
    .
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  24. Member DB83's Avatar
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    One question for your return.

    Assuming that these PAL tapes are not commercial ones, in which country where they recorded ? Brazil by any chance.

    They use PAL-M which, as you read above, is close to NTSC. So you could try NTSC 3.58 as the color standard. Also try that with virtual vcr.
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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    One question for your return.

    Assuming that these PAL tapes are not commercial ones, in which country where they recorded ? Brazil by any chance.

    They use PAL-M which, as you read above, is close to NTSC. So you could try NTSC 3.58 as the color standard. Also try that with virtual vcr.
    They are not commercial. Privet- recorded in Poland.
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    I have another question. I believe when I take those problematic vhs to Europe I will be able to play color movies from regular standard VHS player. And when I connect this player to my PC I should be able to capture color video. So now my current multi system VHS player can decode my Europe movies only as a color only when connected to PAL TV. When I connect to NTSC TV picture is black and white and the same when I connect to any of my PC.
    I understand my issue with TV (different signal) but still confuse over PC. Is it because regions? I don't understand why my PAL TV can recode signal from my VHS in color but PC doesn't.
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  27. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Just a wild thought since this bothers me as much as it does to you.

    How old are the 'Polish' tapes ? True that Poland was a PAL country but before that, due to the influence of a near neighbour, it broadcast in Secam.

    Tv sets, maybe VCRs as well, would internally convert.

    I had a Russian Secam tape once and that also performed as you describe - black and white out of a pure PAL VCR.

    Try setting that VCR to output as SECAM. You never know and no harm can be done to try it.
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  28. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Old France SECAM-L tapes are the same....a perfect B&W picture on a PAL VCR.
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    Hello again after a few weeks,

    Problem has been solved. It was very easy. When I switched from NTSC tapes to PAL I didn't change format in my program. Now I am able to capture PAL and NTSC VHS's without any issues.



    But now I am facing another challenge. As VHS quality is acceptable when I play directly from my VHS player I have noticed that quality of my captured VHS files are much worse. I have captured about 10 tapes and I am not happy with their quality.

    Currently I am using EASY CAP grabber connected via Audio Video composite cables with my VCR.

    I want to switch with the capture program witch came with EASY CUP to more advanced VirtualDub.

    Does anyone have any ideas which path should I choose to get the same quality captured from my VHS tapes?

    What settings should I use within my VirtualDub? What codecs? Should I compress while capturing or later? What format I should use to save the file.
    My goal is to have those captures files save on my external HDD and copy them to my privet youtube account.

    I appreciate any links to tutorials or similar instruction as I am pretty sure some other people have to go through this process.

    I have found following blog with some interesting information:
    http://www.unterzuber.com/vhstodvd.html

    But when I checked some VirtualDub information on internet I have noticed that 5 min of recording to avi format within VirtualDub is about 6GB. Some of my VHS tapes are 240 min. I want to avoid to copy 1 VHS to 2TB HDD.

    On the other side DVD quality movie which is 4GB can be compress to 700MB file. Does anyone here ever tried to digitalized VHS movies using EASY CAP and quality was close to the same?
    I know that using S-video could improve some quality but my VCR has no S-video output.

    Greatly appreciate any help, information suggestions etc

    koze
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  30. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Changing to vdub with an easycap will not in itself improve the quality of your capture.

    A tv (especially an old-school CRT) will be quite tolerant to all the noise that is built in to a analog VHS signal. Move to the digital realm and you see all that noise. You may also see tearing and jumping picture. If the latter you have little choice but to invest in a tbc.

    What you can try is to capture with vdub using a lossless codec such as Lagarith. That will mean about 30-60 gig per hour of video (what you quoted was uncompressed).
    You will still see that noise but now you have better opportunity to filter it with avisynth. There are already tons of topics on here about this so I do not propose to go in to detail here.

    At a push, you can also attempt to filter your existing recordings. The problem here is that you have a lossy mpeg-2 capture and filtering that will result in even more quality loss.

    If, for some reason, you can not use vdub with the easycap then you might consider a better capture device.
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