Capture hd video from dish network (hopper dvr)

[jerecho]

Looking for a good capture card for a windows 7 PC. I want to capture in a lossless format if possible. Would that be MPEG-2?

Also need one that can record for up to 5 hours without crashing. I mainly want to archive sports recordings. Thank you for any input.

[Brad]

A true lossless capture in HD is around 100GB/hour. You could capture in lossless and then compress down to a reasonable size with x264 afterwards, but I'm guessing you're not that picky or video-savvy given the confusion with MPEG-2.

Do you require 5.1 audio? That would narrow down the list of possible capture devices to a select few.

We are talking a desktop PC, yeah?

[hech54]

How is this thread different from your previous thread?
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/356581-Need-advice-with-over-the-air-hd-capturing?p...=1#post2246415

[jerecho]

A true lossless capture in HD is around 100GB/hour. You could capture in lossless and then compress down to a reasonable size with x264 afterwards, but I'm guessing you're not that picky or video-savvy given the confusion with MPEG-2.

Do you require 5.1 audio? That would narrow down the list of possible capture devices to a select few.

We are talking a desktop PC, yeah?

I'm not picky on sound, I would just like good video quality. I will be editing out commercials so it will be re-encoded with video redo and again with vidcoder.

My other thread was about over the air capturing and I didn't know if there was anything different as far as encryption from dish network.

[sanlyn]

Looking for a good capture card for a windows 7 PC. I want to capture in a lossless format if possible. Would that be MPEG-2?

No. MPEG2 is not lossless. It isn't HD, either. Cutting up lossly MPEG2 and re-encoding is a serious quality loss, especially if you don't know what you're doing.

Also need one that can record for up to 5 hours without crashing. I mainly want to archive sports recordings.

Recording from what source? I assume you mean capturing from dish or cable networks. There are devices such as the Hauppauge HD PVR's (not prohibitively expensive, but not cheap), but they capture to a PC and the recordings are not lossless. For editing those recordings you would need additional software and the knowledge to use it. I would suggest that editing lossy video as you intend is possible with some smart-rendering software (most of which is not free) and decent authoring programs, not to mention software to burn new discs. If you don't use smart-rendering editors but prefer instead to use typical consumer NLE's, you're in for some disappointment when it come to final output. If you expect to get 5 hours of high quality video on a single disc, you are talking about various BluRay or AVCHD formats, and 5 hours on a disc would be a touchy situation.

Perhaps you should briefly browse some common standard disc video technicalities and find out, at least, what sort of output you can expect, and what these lossy recording and output formats look like. The links below will take you to listings of the specifications of formats for DVD, BluRay, and AVCHD -- all of which are lossy formats:
PAL, NTSC, and NTSC-FILM: https://www.videohelp.com/dvd#tech
PAL and NTSC BluRay/AVCHD: https://www.videohelp.com/hd#tech

There are capture and recording devices listed in the tools section (https://www.videohelp.com/capturecards). I suggest you begin with a capture device that is often recommended for HD and SD capture from set top boxes, the Hauppauge HD PVR that comes in various models. Start here:
http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2.html

If you are of the mind that it's as simple as hooking a cable to a VCR or DVD recorder and recording 5 hours of unencrypted video that you can play immediately, those days are gone forever.

[usually_quiet]

A true lossless capture in HD is around 100GB/hour. You could capture in lossless and then compress down to a reasonable size with x264 afterwards, but I'm guessing you're not that picky or video-savvy given the confusion with MPEG-2.

Do you require 5.1 audio? That would narrow down the list of possible capture devices to a select few.

We are talking a desktop PC, yeah?

I'm not picky on sound, I would just like good video quality. I will be editing out commercials so it will be re-encoded with video redo and again with vidcoder.

My other thread was about over the air capturing and I didn't know if there was anything different as far as encryption from dish network.

The HDMI output from your satellite receiver/DVR will be HDCP encrypted, so you may want to use the HD capture device's component video input to avoid the expense of buying another device to strip HDCP. Most HD capture devices can only hardware encode to H.264, so you will need VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 to edit recordings. VideoReDo Plus won't edit H.264.

To capture MPEG-2 you will need a capture device that software encodes. Most are internal cards with a PCI-e interface. The Avermedia HD DVR C027, is one example. A good quad core CPU would be helpful to handle encoding HD video to MPEG-2 as it is captured.

You probably do not want to attempt capture of uncompressed HD video. For that you would need to build a RAID array utilizing several hard drives.

[oldfart13]

On a side note, anyone have any good advice and setting recommendations for capping from TCM? I set the HDPVR 2 with standard defaults in Arcsoft Showbiz capture but the result at 11 MBps looks a bit muddy and overly bright. I notice there are additional settings in Showbiz but I haven't played with them. Also didn't cap at the maximum bitrate as I was told TCM is heavily compressed anyway (and it shows on close examination of still pictures). At regular viewing distance of 8 to 10 feet, picture looks superb but not exactly what I want. These are black and white movies at 1080i and file size of 7 GB for 90 minutes prior to editing. Maybe set to 720p for output and max. bitrate of 14 MBps?

[sanlyn]

TCM often has some really ugly low-bitrate signals. There's not much you can do about it during recording, you'd have to repair a few things with software later -- and that's a real trek, only for the totally undaunted or just plain nuts. For an example of what bthis can nentail, try this thread: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360004-Using-Avisyth-Overlay-for-Contrast-Masking

I can understand TCM'spolicy on this. Besides saving transmission power, and besides the fact that many TCM prints are refugees from film warehouse fires to begin with, they really don't want you to make prisitine copies of their videos -- most of which have never seen commercially restored editions, and likely never will. There's just not that much demand from an audience that's hooked on 3D cartoons.

[smrpix]

TCM does a good job of updating their library, but a lot of their material is not yet HD. My strategy is to DVR what I want to see and simply check it, delete it and wait for the next go-round if it hasn't been updated.

[Brad]

MPEG2 is not lossless. It isn't HD, either.

Err, MPEG-2 was the original codec used on Blu-ray releases.

The absolute cheapest option is an HDMI PCIe card from Timeleak, a Chinese company. If you do an "include description" search on eBay for HD72A there are a few sellers offering it for $65 shipped. It captures HDCP-encrypted signals without any additional hardware. I've never used one but there are some user video samples on YouTube and positive reviews elsewhere.

[sanlyn]

MPEG2 is not lossless. It isn't HD, either.

Err, MPEG-2 was the original codec used on Blu-ray releases.

True. Apparently the O.P. is recording HD (although I'm still recording TCM's SD broadcast from an older box. For TCM HD, I have to use my Hauppauge PVR). Their HD is a little cleaner....sometimes. But many of their prints are in sad shape, at least the way they send it out.

[usually_quiet]

MPEG2 is not lossless. It isn't HD, either.

Err, MPEG-2 was the original codec used on Blu-ray releases.

True. Apparently the O.P. is recording HD (although I'm still recording TCM's SD broadcast from an older box. For TCM HD, I have to use my Hauppauge PVR). Their HD is a little cleaner....sometimes. But many of their prints are in sad shape, at least the way they send it out.

oldfart13 is not the OP in this thread. He's more of a thread hijacker. The real O.P. doesn't yet have an HD capture device. That is what he wants help with.

MPEG-2 is what is most used for HDTV broadcasting in N. America although satellite uses H.264.

[sanlyn]

I knew about MPEG2, but not that satellite was different. Thanks for the info.

Right, the O.P. is looking for a capture device. But I think he's coming from an HD box ?

[usually_quiet]

I knew about MPEG2, but not that satellite was different. Thanks for the info.

Right, the O.P. is looking for a capture device. But I think he's coming from an HD box ?

Yes, from what I remember seeing, the Hopper DVR whole-house system is HD, although it can be configured to provide service to any remaining SD TVs in the household as well as the HDTVs.

[jerecho]

Thanks for all the input. I have video redo h.264 and will be using it to edit out all of my commercials. Then I will be encoding the commercial free video with vid coder to .mp4 to watch on my Apple TV or iPad. And yes I'm trying to capture from the dish network hopper dvr.

[usually_quiet]

So, a card that hardware encodes to H.264 is OK? If so, what is your preference for the interface, an internal PCI-e card or an external USB 2.0 device?

[jerecho]

So, a card that hardware encodes to H.264 is OK? If so, what is your preference for the interface, an internal PCI-e card or an external USB 2.0 device?

I guess whichever is more stable when it comes to long recordings. Can the capture cards encode to .ts or .m2ts?

[usually_quiet]

So, a card that hardware encodes to H.264 is OK? If so, what is your preference for the interface, an internal PCI-e card or an external USB 2.0 device?

I guess whichever is more stable when it comes to long recordings. Can the capture cards encode to .ts or .m2ts?

I can't tell you which will be the most stable for long recording sessions. Only someone who has one and records continuously for 5 hours at a time can speak to that.

If you want to use Windows Media Center, Next-PVR, or other third-party PVR software to make timer or guide-based recodings you will have to choose a Hauppauge product. The HDPVR-2 1512 or the Colossus are the newest for recording TV and controlling a set-top box. They can also record 5.1 audio.

The elgato Game Capture HD is another good product, but does not work with Windows-based PVR software. You will be limited to manual recording using the manufacturer's own software unless you can use GrapheEdit or GraphStudio plus scripting to create your own recording software. It can only record stereo audio.

There are other HD game capture devices with the ability to do H.264 hardware encoding available from AVerMedia, but I know little about how well they will work for recording TV. Like the elgato Game Capture HD, you will be limited to manual recording using the manufacturer's own software unless you can use GrapheEdit or GraphStudio plus scripting to create your own recording software. They too are limited to recording stereo audio.

[oldfart13]

MPEG2 is not lossless. It isn't HD, either.

Err, MPEG-2 was the original codec used on Blu-ray releases.

The absolute cheapest option is an HDMI PCIe card from Timeleak, a Chinese company. If you do an "include description" search on eBay for HD72A there are a few sellers offering it for $65 shipped. It captures HDCP-encrypted signals without any additional hardware. I've never used one but there are some user video samples on YouTube and positive reviews elsewhere.

Checked Ebay and there seems to be 2 different versions of the card:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-Video-Capture-HD72A-PCI-E-Card-1080P-for-Camcorder-DVD-DV...item58a26714be


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-HD72A-Video-Capture-PCI-E-Card-1080i-1080P-F-Camcorder-DV...item2a30ab5ff4

Either way, much inferior to most of the previously discussed solutions. 2 channel audio? Mpeg 2 only? Eek!

Saw a used Hauppage 1512 at a pawn shop yesterday for only $100, so it is possible to pick up better solutions cheap(er) if you look around and are a bit lucky...

[Brad]

I think the photos in the second auction are wrong. There are color variants, yes, but the HD72A should have HDMI input only.

It's not limited to MPEG-2. It's a software-encoding card that send uncompressed video to the PCIe bus. It is limited to 2ch PCM.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder since the 1512 won't ignore HDCP and will force you to use H.264 compression at limited bitrates. All depends on features and budget.

[jerecho]

I purchased a capture device (video 2 pc) and it sucked ass. It was the worst video quality I've ever seen. I think I give up at this point. Thanks for all the info but this seems like more trouble than its worth.

[sanlyn]

I agree. Video2PC, like other cheapo crap, really sucks. Could have told you so earlier. You don't always get what you pay for, but usually you do.

[usually_quiet]

I purchased a capture device (video 2 pc) and it sucked ass. It was the worst video quality I've ever seen. I think I give up at this point. Thanks for all the info but this seems like more trouble than its worth.

Like any other pastime, video capture is not for everyone.

[oldfart13]

I think the photos in the second auction are wrong. There are color variants, yes, but the HD72A should have HDMI input only.

It's not limited to MPEG-2. It's a software-encoding card that send uncompressed video to the PCIe bus. It is limited to 2ch PCM.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder since the 1512 won't ignore HDCP and will force you to use H.264 compression at limited bitrates. All depends on features and budget.

Well, we know the workaround for the 1512 and 13.5 Mbps is good enough for me for channels like TCM with poor picture even on their high def channels. Still, a hands on with the card would be good. Anyone have one?