Betamax Capture -Is this dirty heads?

[Des]

One of my clients has loaned me their Sony SL-2000 portable Beta deck to use to transfer their tapes to DVD. The last time they used it was a year ago and it was to identify their tapes. There are 8 tapes.
The unit does not have composite out only antenna out.
I have it hooked up as antenna out to my JVC SR-V101U VCR antenna in, then the composite out from that to my Sony Dig 8mm in and then out via firewire to the PC. Not sure if there is a better arrangement than this.

Anyway, the results are attached. I gave the heads a gentle cleaning, and this is actually an improvement.
There is also an audio hum that gets louder and softer depending upon scenes so I don't know if that is related or part of the original camera hookup/recording.

--dES

[DB83]

I do not know the exact term by that pattern is more like cable noise rather than dirty heads which usually comes over like snow.

Suggest you try an intermediate capture from betamax to your VHS and then, with the coax removed from the chain, see if there is any improvement with a direct capture from that.

[Skiller]

This is RF noise caused by the antenna connection. Maybe the RF modulator of the Beta VCR is dying, maybe there's grounding interference. RF is pretty nasty for capturing anyway but if there are no other outputs on the deck and with a rare tape format like Betamax, what can you do.

Well, you could probably grab the composite video right before it enters the RF modulator but this can be unpredictably easy or hard to do and might involve hacking the VCR.


The first thing I would try is fine tuning the receiving JVC VCR to the incoming antenna signal. If you're lucky, this fixes it.

[Des]

DB83 I recorded to VHS tape as you suggested and still no joy.

Skiller The only other output is a multiconnector, I found an appropriate cable online but it's $95, which is beyond what I would be able to pass onto the client for this project. Will look to see if I can find a schematic out online for it and maybe rig an A/V out from there.

I wouldn't mind hacking the unit but frankly I have to be able to restore it back before I can return it.

I will also try other antenna out cables in case this one has a break in the shielding somewhere.

Thanks guys!
I'm open to more suggestions...

--dES

[Skiller]

If there's some proprietary multi connector on the Beta VCR chances are good there's a standard composite video signal on one of it's pins, so I would look into that. If you take the cover off it may be easy to determine the ground and composite pins (maybe it's written on the board in tiny letters) and those are the two you need.

[DB83]

I found one pic on-line of the multi-conenctor (the UK version seems totally different) but the pic was far from clear.

Any chance of a clear pic ? It looks similar to what we call a scart or euro-connector but I doubt if these existed when this unit was in vogue and certainly not in the US.

Does your client still have the manual ?

[jagabo]

Multi connector pinouts?
http://pinoutdiagram.com/sony-betamax-multi-connector-pinout/

[Des]

Hey All,
Changing the antenna out cable to a better quality one only made a slight difference.
I called my client and asked them if they had any other accessories for the unit but they don't. They used to use it with a camera and then just plug it into the TV to play it back.
Did some searching and the the multi connector is the VMC-220A. According to Mr. Betamax: "

The VMC-220 is a 26-pin multi-connector with two phono plugs and two mini plugs. It is designed to connect the SL-2000 series-type portable video cassette recorders with other video and audio equipment.

Thanks for the pin out guide Jagabo, but none of those seem to be the right one.

My friend has a SL-2500 deck he said I can use, but he points out that it often misloads the tape cockeyed and needs to be romanced to get the tape in when that happens. On the up side it does have separate video and audio out. I may take a look at it tomorrow and see how much of a PIA the loading issue is.

Who knew 25+ year old machines could be so finicky!

--dES

[Arnold_Layne]

Wasn't that VCR designed to work with an external tuner or external PCM encoder/decoder? Unless you can somehow tap into the pins on the multi-connector and fabricate some sort of adapter to composite RCA connectors, I doubt the VCR will do you much good.

[Des]

Wasn't that VCR designed to work with an external tuner or external PCM encoder/decoder? Unless you can somehow tap into the pins on the multi-connector and fabricate some sort of adapter to composite RCA connectors, I doubt the VCR will do you much good.

Yes, from what I can see they did make a tuner for it but my client does not have it

--dES

[orsetto]

Other than the classic SL-5800 with its incredibly luxurious operational feel, my favorite BetaMax is the sleek little SL-2000. We had them for sale in the video store I worked in as a teen, and I often took the demo unit home to play with. Ah, memories...

Anyway, forget trying to fabricate an adapter output cable. The only way you could do this is by tearing apart your friends' existing cable, which he may prefer you not do. It isn't worth going nuts with it just to dub 8 tapes. Since your friend also has an SL-2500, you're better off trying to make that work instead. It uses a similar (perhaps identical) tape transport, which should give similar tracking performance. And it has normal composite connections.

The glitchy loading slot is typical for this era of BetaMax. You should be able to nudge it into working long enough for just 8 tapes, although you might need to remove the top cover when loading each of them. This lets you see where the loader is getting stuck or shifting, and gives you access to adjust the mechanism or cassette with your finger if necessary. Mine was so consistently problematic I finally turned the cover upside down and left it sitting on top of the unit that way. Looked ugly, but was easier to remove quickly each time I needed to load or eject a tape.

[2Bdecided]

I'd probe that multi connector. If you choose to, then if/when you break it, it's not my fault for suggesting this, OK?

It probably has composite video, audio, control, and maybe power. If the power is significant you don't want to connect that to a composite video input, so check the pins with a multimeter first. Assuming no power, get a composite video cable, connect one end to an unloved/disposable TV or capture card, cut off the other end, connect the ground to somewhere sensible on the Beta machine, and probe those pins with the signal connector. When you get a picture, stop! Now do the same with an audio lead/connection. For goodness sake don't short anything out. If this sounds scary, or you don't think you can do it, then don't do it.

Best result: composite output + audio output. Worst result: fried beta machine and capture card and you and house and ...

Since the outputs are probably individually shielded, and maybe not with a common shield, when you get something like a picture and something like the right audio, you might want to disconnected the ground from wherever you connected it, and see which pin that works best in.

Good luck! If you break it, it's your fault, not mine. I never said it was safe. It's a very stupid thing to do. Don't do it!

Cheers,
David.

[Des]

2Bdecided: Thanks for the tips and advice. And disclaimer

orsetto: Thanks for your advice also. The SL-2000 is a clients,unfortunately he has no cables or accessories for it.
The sl-2500 belongs to a videographer friend of mine, I'm going to pick that one up this afternoon and see what I can do with it. He says the left side has a tendency to load further in than the right and after that it becomes a project. He thinks it's the secondary tape door that is gumming up the process but he's not sure. Apparently when you load a tape a second door comes up telling you there is a tape in the machine.

Will hope for the best.

Thanks all.

--dES

[NJRoadfan]

I have a Sanyo Betacord VCR-4500 here, but its output leaves much to be desired. There is a problem with the luminance "bending" on bright areas of the screen. I also have a SL-HF860D, but it has the dreaded crooked loading problem (one of the gears on the front loading mech seems to have lost a tooth,common problem), plus it has tracking problems. I have yet to get it cleaned/aligned since I haven't had any tapes come in after I did the batch I had. I'd probe the pins on the multi-connector, anything is better than RF modulated video on these.

What does the source footage look like? If its a camcorder recording, its likely from a BetaMovie BMC-110. These recording are a nightmare since most people forgot to white balance the thing every time they started recording or changed lighting.

[Des]

Hi NJRoadfan, Best I can tell the source tapes are dark, they shot a lot of indoor parties with it. Color seems OK. Once I get a decent enough capture I can see what it will need after that.

--dES

[lordsmurf]

I do not know the exact term

A type of herringbone noise.
Electrical noise

[orsetto]

The SL-2000 is a clients,unfortunately he has no cables or accessories for it.

OK, I don't think we were quite clear that you did not have the cable at all, we just thought you were missing the tuner dock with standard output jacks. Its been 30 years since I last played with one of these SL2000/TT2000 systems: I seem to remember now the docking cable was permanently connected to the tuner/timer module on some of them (there was a Zenith clone, I might be remembering that one).

Without a cable, you'd be screwing around with the actual SL2000 chassis connecter pins. I suppose you could do this per 2Bdecided's instructions, but you'll want to get your friends permission (with the understanding his SL2000 could become a doorstop). Perhaps I'm being dense, but I also don't see how one could go about affixing leads to these closely-spaced tiny pins. Getting them to stay in place and not short each other would be tricky: the socket is akin to a SCSI II jack. If you had a proper cable, you could bust it open for easy access to individual wires, or screw with the pins, while avoiding damage to the SL2000 socket itself.

But you don't. Since these aren't your own personal tapes, your friend/client bears some degree of burden/responsibility for whatever it costs to digitize them. If the borrowed SL2500 proves unworkable, he needs to permit you to risk blowing up the SL2000, or pay the costs to obtain another second-hand Betamax. That won't be cheap, functional units are getting scarce and the shipping cost alone can be $40 on the heavier models.

Give the SL2500 a shot, and try to make it work. One look with the cover off, and it becomes fairly obvious where the loading slot system is malfunctioning. You should be able to skew the cassette in straighter with your fingers, and quickly nudge whatever sluggish gear train is stalling the secondary flap. Don't give up right away: these old Sonys have a tendency to just suddenly work fine for awhile after the twentieth malfunction. I recently gave up on getting my balky SL-HF500 to load, and replaced it with a very expensive, professionally refurbished SL-HF360. Of course, the minute I unpacked the 360, my old 500 began working perfectly again for the first time in two years, for no apparent reason (jealousy?).

[Des]

Hey orsetto, thanks for the response.
I think the clarity is lost in my piece-mealing the information out there over several replies. As for trying to attach wires to the pins I figured I would cross that bridge when/if I came to it. I have a few ideas I'd done in the past with bus connectors like this.

Anyway, I picked up the sl-2500, my friend told me to do what ever I needed with it. He suggests taking the cover off and loading it slowly and carefully. He says when it plays it plays well. I'll be able to give it a shot in a few hours.

--dES

[Des]

Hooked up the Sl-2500. My friend gave me The Labyrinth to use as a test tape. Popped it in and it worked fine. Nice picture too. Ejected the tape. Cool.
Put in my client's tape...loaded crooked! Wouldn't eject, so I worked the worm gear by hand, and got the tape out. Now it won't load the tape at all. Cassette pushes in most of the way and I can hear a switch click but it never moves or lowers the carriage. Hitting eject activates the motor with the worm gear, and the tape slides back. I also noticed that the front of the machine moves slightly as if something is pressing against it.
My friend told me that happens, just keep playing with it..ugh.

I did find this info on a UK site, seems to be basically the same machine and prone to the same issues: http://www.palsite.com/tech.py?model=slc9tech.html

Any insite? Now I know why these things are called 'projects.'

--dES

[Cornucopia]

It's a longshot, but SOMETIMES those things have been known to "reset" themselves if power cycled (unplugging may be necessary).

Scott

[lingyi]

Oops...double post!

[lingyi]

The SL-2500 was basically a SL-2000 + TT-2000 (tuner) refitted to a single case. Both shared the same issues because the guides on the loading ring folded down to save space. The big sister SLHF-2700 "fixed" the issue by using fixed guides.I owned the SL-2000 and SL-HF2700 and both went into repair a number of times for loading issues. Be very careful with the machines you have. The guides are pretty delicate and prone to breaking when loading or unloading a tape.

The proprietary multi-connector on the back of the SL-2000 did carry audio and video as well as power and other connections. You'd need a schematic to find the correct pinout to figure out what's what. Here's a picture of the tuner with the multi-connector. http://www.betamaxcollectors.com/sonybetamaxmodelsl-2000-tunertt-2000.html

You say this is a client. Do him / her a favor and send the tape to a professional that has the correct equipment to do the transfer. At best you may just lose a tape. At worst, you could easily break one or both machines and they are <not> easy or cheap to fix.

The slimline SL-2000 series (SL-2000, SL-2500, SLHF-2700, SL2300, SL2400) were some of the most delicate Betamaxes because of their low profile. I sold my SL-2000 after the 3rd or 4th repair for loading problems and after the final repair of my beloved SLHF-2700, I used it maybe a dozen times then keep it on the shelf for fear of it breaking again.

[lingyi]

Orsetto's post brought back some memories. One of the quirks of the SL-2XXX series related to the folding guide pins was that the cassette often wouldn't load straight. Again, BE CAREFUL...don't force the cassette in or out of the loading slot. The tape would sometimes get caught under the guide pin and pushing / pulling the cassette could break it or at least put it out of alignment. AGAIN, you're messing with two of the most delicate Betamaxes. There's a reason the later front loading machines (including the SLHF-2700) were taller. They needed the extra room to ensure proper loading / unloading.

Sorry if I seem to harping on how delicate these machines are, but as a Betaphile (though now only in my heart, since my last "babies" are on the shelf) I hate to see someone abusing these beauties that gave THE best home video picture quality of their era!

[2Bdecided]

Perhaps I'm being dense, but I also don't see how one could go about affixing leads to these closely-spaced tiny pins.

You get single core cable that's approximately the same diameter as the pins on the plug (which you don't have). You strip it back only to the length of the pins on the plug (which you don't have) so it can't short once inserted fully. You push the stripped part into the socket. Friction may hold it there long enough, but suitable bending, clamping in a vice, sticking down with tape etc may be needed. The other end is normally soldered to a proper cable.

Not for the faint hearted. If it slips out a little and shorts, something will be toast.


In the days before the internet made it easy to get any obscure connector or cable delivered to your door (and my eyesight was better and my hands steadier!) I used this technique to hack VGA signals, an Atari ST's monitor port, serial ports, etc.


I'm not suggesting you should do it today. Today I'd find the right connector and solder it properly.


Cheers,
David.

[Des]

Hey All,
As always thanks for the advice and opinions. lingyi, you are passionate, fear not, I have been gentle with the sl-2500, maybe too gentle as my friend who loaned to me says he is more 'persuasive' with it.

I have decided to no longer pursue using the sl-2000, and never intended to make a permanent modification as it is not mine to do so with. The pins are actually fairly well spaced on the connector so I feel confident I could do something like what 2Bdecided described, but without a pin out schematic I won't attempt it.

If I can not get the sl-2500 to work by the end of next week, I will be returning the betamax tapes to my client. This is part of a larger family archive consisting of VHS, VHS-C, 8mm video, DV and then Super 8mm movie film. Also, about 150 35mm negatives, and 50 pre WWII 8x10 and 5x7 photos.
It's a good sized job without the Beta tapes. I've done work for this family for years, and I like to help them best I can. They don't want to invest a ton into the Beta transfer because at this point it is more of a curiosity to them. The people on those tapes are covered on the S8mm and VHS' as well.

As for the sl-2500, For the 10 minutes it played The Labyrinth yesterday before I stopped it I was very impressed with the video quality. It makes me want to see more of what this machine can do! My friend doesn't care if I break it, but don't worry, I won't! But I am willing to strip it down a bit to see if I can get it load if anyone has suggestions on that I will gladly take it.

--dES

[Des]

Quick follow-up on the SL-2500:
Got the loading carriage to operate again. One of the gear sets had become 'stuck' too far out in the eject position, probably from my working the mechanism by hand to release the tape.
Inspected all gears while wearing a 10x visor and found no missing teeth, but did find one tiny gear at the very top right front of the assembly is loose on the shaft. Seems there is a pin missing that retains it to the shaft. The pin goes into a slot in the shaft but the shaft is not drilled through so there is no way to secure the gear without it. Receiving hole in the gear is torn at it's outer edge. Glue/epoxy comes to mind to retain it, but is probably not the best idea. Anyone got better ones?
Am taking the rest of today off from it. I didn't try loading or playing a tape yet as I want to try to resolve the gear issue first.

Thanks for reading.

--dES

[jagabo]

Does the SL-2000 have the same loading mechanism? Steal the part from it?

[Des]

Does the SL-2000 have the same loading mechanism? Steal the part from it?

I would do that!
Unfortunately, no. The sl-2000 is a top loading unit and the sl-2500 front slot loading.

--dES

[lingyi]

See...

YOU BROKE IT!

LOL!

From your description, it may be a C clip popped of. Do a Google search on "C Clip" for images. Look around inside, it's probably in there somewhere. As for a fix, you may be able to do a few wrappings of copper wire to match the diameter of the original clip.

I don't think these gears were meant to individually repaired or replaced. As I recall, I used to see the techs remove and replace entire boards (with gears attached).

Good luck!

[Des]

See...

YOU BROKE IT!

LOL!

I tried to be ever so careful, really

I thought it may also be a c-clip but actually the divot is not where the gear would slip off the shaft, but rather where the gear rests after it enters the shaft (does this sound dirty to anyone else? ) It's th shaft that the dust door connects to.
I should have taken a picture of it, but was too lazy. Here's a 'sketch:'



--dES