DVD Recorder vs Capture Card?

[alindm01]

I am looking to to convert a few hours of old ('85 - '95) VHS home movies to DVD. I own a Sony RDR-VXD655 but noticed that while the tapes look fine when played on it (or as fine as I'd expect a 25 year old camcorder recording to look) the DVDs don't look very good. I tried playing around with the recording settings to see if I could get it any better but couldn't manage it even when I used the uncompressed HQ setting. I then tried ripping the DVDs it produced and started trying to clean them up using VirtualDub. Although I'm able to clean it up some I wanted to get some opinions on whether or not it's worth doing before I go any farther. Would I be better off getting a capture card and capturing the videos in VirtualDub?


I know from reading that a better VCR would probably give the best results but I really don't want to spend money on a machine that would only be used to transfer less than 4 hours of video and never be touched again. That said, I would be willing to spend up to about $125 for a capture card (preferably with HDMI input) since I might have a use for it in the future. Would there be any significant improvement if I used the same VCR but used it with a capture card? If so, are there any recommendations for capture cards in my price range?


Thanks!

[VideoChunkster]

I am looking to to convert a few hours of old ('85 - '95) VHS home movies to DVD. I own a Sony RDR-VXD655 but noticed that while the tapes look fine when played on it (or as fine as I'd expect a 25 year old camcorder recording to look) the DVDs don't look very good. I tried playing around with the recording settings to see if I could get it any better but couldn't manage it even when I used the uncompressed HQ setting. I then tried ripping the DVDs it produced and started trying to clean them up using VirtualDub. Although I'm able to clean it up some I wanted to get some opinions on whether or not it's worth doing before I go any farther. Would I be better off getting a capture card and capturing the videos in VirtualDub?


I know from reading that a better VCR would probably give the best results but I really don't want to spend money on a machine that would only be used to transfer less than 4 hours of video and never be touched again. That said, I would be willing to spend up to about $125 for a capture card (preferably with HDMI input) since I might have a use for it in the future. Would there be any significant improvement if I used the same VCR but used it with a capture card? If so, are there any recommendations for capture cards in my price range?


Thanks!

With only a few hours the responses you will get will be:

1) get them professionally done , or
2) get a capture card and pro deck.

Much easier to get professionally done. Defently worth doing though if the dvds aren't even turning out with the same quality as the tape.

[alindm01]

With only a few hours the responses you will get will be:

1) get them professionally done , or
2) get a capture card and pro deck.

Much easier to get professionally done. Defently worth doing though if the dvds aren't even turning out with the same quality as the tape.

Thank you for your response. I'm not particularly interested in having it professionally done or purchasing a pro deck. Ultimately what I would really like to know is whether my results would be better using my existing deck and a capture card than just using my existing deck to dub.


Thanks!

[VideoChunkster]

With only a few hours the responses you will get will be:

1) get them professionally done , or
2) get a capture card and pro deck.

Much easier to get professionally done. Defently worth doing though if the dvds aren't even turning out with the same quality as the tape.

Thank you for your response. I'm not particularly interested in having it professionally done or purchasing a pro deck. Ultimately what I would really like to know is whether my results would be better using my existing deck and a capture card than just using my existing deck to dub.


Thanks!

Depends how experienced you are. You might find unless your are really knowledgable with captures like some members here, that it wil look even worse. Normally if you have a good deck and transfer in hq it should look pretty close to the tape if not identifical. What are you viewing it on for playback a HD tv?

[alindm01]

Depends how experienced you are. You might find unless your are really knowledgable with captures like some members here, that it wil look even worse. Normally if you have a good deck and transfer in hq it should look pretty close to the tape if not identifical. What are you viewing it on for playback a HD tv?

It's currently hooked to a 32" 720p. The VHS actually looks pretty good when I play it on the deck and if it dubbed to DVD looking that way I'd be perfectly happy. The problem is that the dubbed DVD looks much worse than the VHS.

[VideoChunkster]

Depends how experienced you are. You might find unless your are really knowledgable with captures like some members here, that it wil look even worse. Normally if you have a good deck and transfer in hq it should look pretty close to the tape if not identifical. What are you viewing it on for playback a HD tv?

It's currently hooked to a 32" 720p. The VHS actually looks pretty good when I play it on the deck and if it dubbed to DVD looking that way I'd be perfectly happy. The problem is that the dubbed DVD looks much worse than the VHS.

I would say its the problem with the dvd recorder if the playback on the deck looks good but the dvd comes out worse.
Hopefully Sanlyn catches this thread, he will be able to help you out alot more, like he helped me when I was doing it.

[Steve(MS)]

You may not like the advice you will get.
That is a combo-deck you are using which is a big strike against better quality.
How much are you willing to spend or how much time do you want to put into this?
Better to get high quality VCR and at the least a good dvd recorder....but capturing and processing on computer is the best
but more time consuming in learning all the different stuff needed to know.
I'll leave it to others to advise you further but digitizing vhs material is an art in itself.

[lordsmurf]

If you try to DIY, you'll spend more time, effort, and money that sending it to a qualified service.

I just need to really write this out on our site this winter. I keep explaining it over and over in forums, and that's no good.

No, your quality won't be good with what you suggest. In fact, you likely cannot capture it at all that way. That's what few understand. It's not a simple matter of plugging a VCR in a computer and pressing play.

[orsetto]

[...]I know from reading that a better VCR would probably give the best results but I really don't want to spend money on a machine that would only be used to transfer less than 4 hours of video and never be touched again. That said, I would be willing to spend up to about $125 for a capture card (preferably with HDMI input) since I might have a use for it in the future. Would there be any significant improvement if I used the same VCR but used it with a capture card? If so, are there any recommendations for capture cards in my price range?

You have less than four hours worth of VHS to transfer. You will not be able to improve on your current DIY results without spending a lot of money and/or wasting weeks of your life learning a boring, tedious, tricky PC workflow. If you had 50 tapes to do, it might make sense to learn the craft and invest the money/time in finding/learning better hardware/software. But 4 measly hours of VHS? Forget DIY: seriously. Get a price quote from someone like our esteemed LordSmurf, and let a professional do it.

If you have a definite near-future project in mind that would require a capture card, you could of course buy one and see if it achieves slightly better results than your combo. But don't buy a capture device specifically for these 4 hours of VHS: thats crazy and counterproductive. The odds are against it giving you better results than your combo. Getting superlative VHS capture to a PC is possible, but its a chicken and egg game: you need the skills to get the results, but you can't get the skills until you buy the gear and use it extensively. Again, this makes sense if you have dozens or hundreds of tapes to capture. But 4 hours? Thats like trying to swat a fly by purchasing a BMW to run it over with.

The problem is almost certainly your Sony RDR-VXD655 combo. It was a mediocre unit with decidedly mixed user reports: half the people who bought it to make DVDs from VHS consider the results adequate, half consider the results terrible. Few owners report the results as "excellent." Since you seem to find the straight VHS playback watchable enough on your TV, the VCR portion may be OK. But the digital encoder apparently makes a hash of VHS input, leading to the crummy DVDs.

Connecting the VCR portion of your 655 to a PC capture device might result in a somewhat better DVD, because it would use a different encoder, but you might just as easily get the same or worse quality. DVD recorders were designed with VHS input in mind, and (aside from your Sony) usually include a few automatic signal repair features. PC capture cards, perversely, tend to hate VHS input: they gag on it, and get flummoxed by all sorts of "invisible" signal errors that DVD recorders routinely ignore. IF you get a VHS-friendly capture device, and IF you put in the effort to learn tools like AVIsynth, you can work around the inherent instability of VHS signals to achieve noticeably better quality than a DVD recorder. But thats a couple of big "ifs," and you might still require an external TBC ($229). If the tapes have noise that needs to be cleaned, an old high-end VCR with built-in DNR can eliminate a lot of hacking around with the PC, but here again we're talking expense ($200-500) plus the risks entailed in buying second-hand VCRs.

The era of "easy", passable-quality DIY VHS-to-DVD conversion faded in 2006 and was over by 2008. By that time all the top-quality DVD recorders had been discontinued, leaving only mediocre combos, and all the old high-end VCRs had been run into the ground. So you could say the midrange options have disappeared: today, you either accept whatever crummy results you can get from a combo, or spend your life in front of a PC in an endless quest for perfection. The lucky people with just a few tapes can (and should) hand them off to a pro, and avoid the hassle entirely. How much is your time and aggravation worth?

[VideoChunkster]

[...]I know from reading that a better VCR would probably give the best results but I really don't want to spend money on a machine that would only be used to transfer less than 4 hours of video and never be touched again. That said, I would be willing to spend up to about $125 for a capture card (preferably with HDMI input) since I might have a use for it in the future. Would there be any significant improvement if I used the same VCR but used it with a capture card? If so, are there any recommendations for capture cards in my price range?

You have less than four hours worth of VHS to transfer. You will not be able to improve on your current DIY results without spending a lot of money and/or wasting weeks of your life learning a boring, tedious, tricky PC workflow. If you had 50 tapes to do, it might make sense to learn the craft and invest the money/time in finding/learning better hardware/software. But 4 measly hours of VHS? Forget DIY: seriously. Get a price quote from someone like our esteemed LordSmurf, and let a professional do it.

If you have a definite near-future project in mind that would require a capture card, you could of course buy one and see if it achieves slightly better results than your combo. But don't buy a capture device specifically for these 4 hours of VHS: thats crazy and counterproductive. The odds are against it giving you better results than your combo. Getting superlative VHS capture to a PC is possible, but its a chicken and egg game: you need the skills to get the results, but you can't get the skills until you buy the gear and use it extensively. Again, this makes sense if you have dozens or hundreds of tapes to capture. But 4 hours? Thats like trying to swat a fly by purchasing a BMW to run it over with.

The problem is almost certainly your Sony RDR-VXD655 combo. It was a mediocre unit with decidedly mixed user reports: half the people who bought it to make DVDs from VHS consider the results adequate, half consider the results terrible. Few owners report the results as "excellent." Since you seem to find the straight VHS playback watchable enough on your TV, the VCR portion may be OK. But the digital encoder apparently makes a hash of VHS input, leading to the crummy DVDs.

Connecting the VCR portion of your 655 to a PC capture device might result in a somewhat better DVD, because it would use a different encoder, but you might just as easily get the same or worse quality. DVD recorders were designed with VHS input in mind, and (aside from your Sony) usually include a few automatic signal repair features. PC capture cards, perversely, tend to hate VHS input: they gag on it, and get flummoxed by all sorts of "invisible" signal errors that DVD recorders routinely ignore. IF you get a VHS-friendly capture device, and IF you put in the effort to learn tools like AVIsynth, you can work around the inherent instability of VHS signals to achieve noticeably better quality than a DVD recorder. But thats a couple of big "ifs," and you might still require an external TBC ($229). If the tapes have noise that needs to be cleaned, an old high-end VCR with built-in DNR can eliminate a lot of hacking around with the PC, but here again we're talking expense ($200-500) plus the risks entailed in buying second-hand VCRs.

The era of "easy", passable-quality DIY VHS-to-DVD conversion faded in 2006 and was over by 2008. By that time all the top-quality DVD recorders had been discontinued, leaving only mediocre combos, and all the old high-end VCRs had been run into the ground. So you could say the midrange options have disappeared: today, you either accept whatever crummy results you can get from a combo, or spend your life in front of a PC in an endless quest for perfection. The lucky people with just a few tapes can (and should) hand them off to a pro, and avoid the hassle entirely. How much is your time and aggravation worth?

Well said.