Looking for recorder capable of recording line level (+4dbu) from mixer.

[techspark]

Hello, i preivously owned a zoom h1 but it died and i m looking for a new recorder that can handle pro line level out of +4dbu (+4dv i think both mean the same, i got these nos after doing some research). I usually record live events in my locality, the music is very loud and the mixers that the dj guys use here all output at +4dbu.

My zoom h1 could never handle such signal from the mixer and the recordings were always distorted so i want the new recorder to be capable of recording without any distortion.

After some research i have found tascam dr-2d , sony pcm m10 and olympus ls-14 that have a seperate line in port ( although the olympus ls-14 specs says it can do only -6dbv whereas tascam dr-2d manual says it can do upto +6dbv....how much of a difference will this be, will my recordings be distored if i choose the olympus ls-14 ??? )

My budget is $200 and sony pcm10 is slightly out of budget.

I am looking for more suggestions and my primary requirement is to be able to record from line level output from the mixer without any distortion , i don't need any other feature. If you could suggest any other cheap device that can do this properly, i will be more than happy to consider it

All suggestions and replies will be appreciated.

Thank you!

[turk690]

I had a Zoom H2 and bought its newer version H2n. Both of them distort on actual line input levels just above 0dBu (using line-in). Adjusting the record level does not help; it's obvious that, in its electronics, the level control is situated after a high gain stage (which merrily distorts above said level, let alone hot pro +4dBu). But because I liked these handy devices a lot, I just used either a passive attenuator I constructed myself (out of a ganged dual 5kA pot, for use on the go), or a more elaborate powered and buffered one (for domestic use where AC mains is available). To me, it looks like Zoom wants to emphasize the (awesome) capabilities of the built-in mics and wants you to use that; subtly introducing the distortion issue on line inputs. I suppose the internal pre-recording level control gain can't also changed (or Zoom deliberately doesn't), taking in that successive f/w updates do not resolve the problem.
Because I record more than 2-ch, I have used a Zoom R16 more. It doesn't appear to distort (or distorts less grottily) above 0dBu, given that it's probably because it has separate gain, channel level, and balanced inputs for each of the 8-ch.
I have also previously used alessis and marantz recorders, whose maximum line-in levels (actual and spec) are all over the place. IIWU, I'll scarcely pay attention to the specs; I'll just get one whose features I'm happy about, try recording some, & if they distort despite dialing down the record levels, to just get an external attenuator.

[Cornucopia]

Most pros like myself would just always have a preamp/fieldmixer upstream inline with which to calibrate levels. But I am guessing that one could still locate the analog input sensitivity pots and adjust them to your liking.

Scott

[turk690]

But I am guessing that one could still locate the analog input sensitivity pots and adjust them to your liking.

I thought as much & opened them up but no trimpots inside.

[Cornucopia]

Then I would use some calibrated tone generators & work out by trial and error just where the dropdead digital ceiling is on the unit's metering and make sure all my signals never reach that high.

Scott

[turk690]

Then I would use some calibrated tone generators & work out by trial and error just where the dropdead digital ceiling is on the unit's metering and make sure all my signals never reach that high.

The Zoom H2 & H2n have a conventional 1/8" stereo jack for line inputs (unlike the H4 which have balanced XLR); despite this, I did try inputting a 1KHz signal from a source that put out known levels across 600Ω. The H2 & H2n always started distorting somewhere between -3 & -2dBu (indicated by the tone generator as the levels it is putting out and injecting into the recorder), no matter how the recording levels were set. One can therefore end up with exquisitely distorted recordings that may average a mere -20dB, peaks about -6dB! Connecting the H2 & H2n line inputs therefore to some FoH console whose output goes above that (and compressed and hard-limited to maintain those levels, averaging >0dBu) verges on disastrous. It's obvious Zoom's design places a fixed gain stage ahead of the recording level control. That it distorts means this stage gets overloaded; it's analogue & not a digital ceiling being reached just yet (I have set recording levels on the recorder's max 0dB digital meters such that bars are dancing and hovering just about -40 & -20dB in previously attempting to mitigate this distortion, to no avail). Using the external attenuators, and tweaking both them and the recorders', I have set it up such that a -3dBu tone being input shows as the max 0dB on the recorders' meters (coinciding the actual analogue levels that start to distort, and 0dB digital ceiling).

[Cornucopia]

I can't attest to the H2 or H2N, as I have the H4N and have NO difficulties like what you are describing. If my tone generator makes it clip at -2 on the Zoom's meter, it does it every time, so I can clearly monitor if it's going into the red.

What you're saying doesn't make sense; it sounds almost as if you had an active AGC circuit going on...

Just so the OP knows - not ALL models are like that. YMMV, you get what you pay for, test before you buy, all the usual sentiments...

Scott

[techspark]

Thank you guys for all the replies. I really do not want to spend $50 separately on attenuator and want to buy just the recorder. I m not technical enough to build one myself


I know attenuator will come in handy but still prefer not to have anything in between the source and the recorder.


Also, is it possible that reducing the 4dbu to -10dbv signal result in loss of sound quality ??


At this point, i am considering the tascam dr-40 which has xlr line input and as per specs it says it can take max input of +20dbu. I think this should be more than sufficient for my needs but i m not sure about one thing that is the mixers have rca tape out ports these are usually rca or trs 1/4 inch jacks, can i use a trs to xlr or rca to xlr cable and be able to record without any issues ??



Is there any other recorder(preferably cheaper) which can take upto +20dbu of line input ??