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  1. Member
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    I upgraded from Windows Pro with Media Center 8 (32-bit) to Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (32-bit) via the free offer at the Windows App store. When I read the terms of the license, it said I was allowed to create one copy of an ISO image as a backup. Unfortunately, there was no option presented to download an ISO. As far as I can tell, unlike Windows 7 or Windows 8, there is no way for a member of the general public to legally obtain a physical Windows 8.1 installation disc or create an ISO without purchasing a new Windows 8.1 license. I'm not sure I can even re-install my old copy of Windows 8 and download upgrade again if necessary. According to the terms of the upgrade, my old Windows 8 license is now invalid after installing Windows 8.1

    This is really disappointing. I thought I'd likely use my Windows 8.1 license on a new computer some day and even if I didn't it is likely I'd want do a fresh install on a new hard drive for the computer where my copy of Windows 8.1 is presently installed. Too bad there is no clear-cut procedure for doing either of those things. I also wanted to upgrade a family member's Windows 8 laptop to Windows 8.1, but won't be doing that either unless there is a way to re-install Windows 8.1 if the hard drive dies.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 19th Oct 2013 at 11:19. Reason: Fix typos
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  2. Member Krispy Kritter's Avatar
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    That has not been the case in the past, and they have offered the "upgrades" on many of their past releases.

    Your current install is using the v8 key/lic. And if/when you want/need to reinstall it shouldn't be an issue assuming you meet the typical restrictions.

    There are other 8.1 issues, such SLI (for those using it) no longer being supported and numerous other issues I've seen reported so far.
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    Originally Posted by Krispy Kritter View Post
    That has not been the case in the past, and they have offered the "upgrades" on many of their past releases.

    Your current install is using the v8 key/lic. And if/when you want/need to reinstall it shouldn't be an issue assuming you meet the typical restrictions.

    There are other 8.1 issues, such SLI (for those using it) no longer being supported and numerous other issues I've seen reported so far.
    You are right about it not being the case in the past. I upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 via a free offer and was even offered the option to order installation media for a small fee. I also upgraded from the Windows 8 preview to Windows 8 Pro with Media Center for only $40, and in that case I was able to download an ISO and burn it to DVD. ...but this time it is different. I followed a suggestion at a user forum for downloading a Windows 8.1 ISO from MS. My old Windows 8 product key was rejected. Next I used some third party software to find my Windows 8.1 product key, which was accepted, but subsequently MS popped up a message telling me "Windows 8.1 is not available for download in your Country/Region." I can get an ISO via torrent, but I'm not interested in going the illegal route.
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  4. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    No iso is unacceptable!!!! I demand refunds!!!!

    I have a laptop with win8 that I plan to update with win 8.1 but I was counting on being able to download the 64 bit iso to do an offline install. I can't count on my isp lately to keep my connection steady during the whole 4gb+ update. Last thing I want is a corrupted update and having to restore and then do it again if I need to reinstall. That's just nuts!!!!!

    It's bad enough that I also bought an OEM disc and license of win8 pro for a new desktop build (in long term progress) so I will have to get that too eventually. Without the iso it could easily become an issue having to do multiple installs.

    We'll be buying a tablet soon. We were thinking of staying with win8 but now I'm seriously considering going with Android instead of Win8.


    EDIT:
    For what its worth I just read that the update does get downloaded to your PC / Device but it can only be used for that machine. If you own multiple laptops and/or PC's all running the same version of Win8 you have to download a separate copy for each machine or it won't work. Each download is over 3.5gb so have fun. No wonder their servers are supposed to be overwhelmed. IDIOTS!!!!!!!
    Last edited by gll99; 18th Oct 2013 at 20:41. Reason: add new info:
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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  5. What about having HDD image backed up, Windows 8. Upgrading to Windows 8.1. And then later on loading back that older simple Windows 8 image?
    After purchasing new PC it is good idea to get all bloatware out of HDD and back up that cleaner image. So in this case it would not work?
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    What about having HDD image backed up, Windows 8. Upgrading to Windows 8.1. And then later on loading back that older simple Windows 8 image?
    After purchasing new PC it is good idea to get all bloatware out of HDD and back up that cleaner image. So in this case it would not work?
    I've always backed up my data, but never the OS, prior to an install. I always had installation media to start over if necessary. Not everyone is willing to buy an extra hard drive to keep a fresh copy of the OS. I don't find the thought of spending $50 on another hard drive to back up an OS install very appealing and I didn't consider the possibility that I would need to this time.

    @gll99 Yes I agree, complete and total idiocy not to provide an ISO, especially when a valid ISO was already leaked by a member of the development community and available via torrent before the official release date.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 18th Oct 2013 at 21:04.
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  7. Member bendixG15's Avatar
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    MS better find their new CEO quick and get him working, the sooner the better.
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  8. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    The laptop I want to update belongs to my wife and she just uses a couple of basic apps on it. I know nothing except what i did to get it going originally which wasn't much since the install was almost automatic except to force me to create or use an email account plus requesting a device / cell to supposedly send a security code which I find invasive

    One thing I wondered is .... I was reading this blog about installing win8.1 and something wasn't clear to me.

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-install-windows-8-1

    I was wondering if you could just download the complete update but install the actual update another day. The way it reads it seems like it does it all in 1 process like other normal updates. I want to not only delay the install of the 8.1 update but also save it for reuse in case I have to start from scratch with 8.0 one day. I'm guessing it won't let me do that.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    The laptop I want to update belongs to my wife and she just uses a couple of basic apps on it. I know nothing except what i did to get it going originally which wasn't much since the install was almost automatic except to force me to create or use an email account plus requesting a device / cell to supposedly send a security code which I find invasive

    One thing I wondered is .... I was reading this blog about installing win8.1 and something wasn't clear to me.

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-install-windows-8-1

    I was wondering if you could just download the complete update but install the actual update another day. The way it reads it seems like it does it all in 1 process like other normal updates. I want to not only delay the install of the 8.1 update but also save it for reuse in case I have to start from scratch with 8.0 one day. I'm guessing it won't let me do that.
    You can interrupt the download and resume later. (My computer rebooted in the middle of downloading due to receiving a concurrent Windows update.) Once the download has finished, installation begins. The instructions I read said that if you don't agree to the terms of the license, the installation aborts and you still have Windows 8. I didn't try rejecting the terms of the license so I don't know if downloading the installer a second time is necessary if you change your mind.
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  10. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    The laptop I want to update belongs to my wife and she just uses a couple of basic apps on it. I know nothing except what i did to get it going originally which wasn't much since the install was almost automatic except to force me to create or use an email account plus requesting a device / cell to supposedly send a security code which I find invasive

    One thing I wondered is .... I was reading this blog about installing win8.1 and something wasn't clear to me.

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-install-windows-8-1

    I was wondering if you could just download the complete update but install the actual update another day. The way it reads it seems like it does it all in 1 process like other normal updates. I want to not only delay the install of the 8.1 update but also save it for reuse in case I have to start from scratch with 8.0 one day. I'm guessing it won't let me do that.
    You can interrupt the download and resume later. (My computer rebooted in the middle of downloading due to receiving a concurrent Windows update.) Once the download has finished, installation begins. The instructions I read said that if you don't agree to the terms of the license, the installation aborts and you still have Windows 8. I didn't try rejecting the terms of the license so I don't know if downloading the installer a second time is necessary if you change your mind.
    I checked the control panel for the update options. One option is "download the updates but let me choose whether to install them". If it does that unless it's locked maybe I could copy the file before it gets deleted and un-check installing it. It's a risk so I might just clone the drive before running this update.

    btw) Good thing I read that blog entry because I couldn't find the download option. The laptop needed 29 updates but the 8.1 update still didn't show up in the store. So I checked for more updates again and I had to do 22 more including 1 optional. Now at least the option to get the win 8.1 update shows up in the store. Like I said I don't think I'll try it until I clone the drive though.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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  11. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Yes, I'm lazy and haven't kept up, but what huge improvements does W8.1 bring to the table? I'm unhappy enough with W8/64. But using a few workarounds like Start8 makes it palatable for me since I don't have a touch screen.
    I wouldn't have installed W8 if my copy of W7 hadn't quit on me.

    Why would I want W8.1?
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  12. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    Yes, I'm lazy and haven't kept up, but what huge improvements does W8.1 bring to the table? I'm unhappy enough with W8/64. But using a few workarounds like Start8 makes it palatable for me since I don't have a touch screen.
    I wouldn't have installed W8 if my copy of W7 hadn't quit on me.

    Why would I want W8.1?
    I understand you get a nice fake start button.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    Yes, I'm lazy and haven't kept up, but what huge improvements does W8.1 bring to the table? I'm unhappy enough with W8/64. But using a few workarounds like Start8 makes it palatable for me since I don't have a touch screen.
    I wouldn't have installed W8 if my copy of W7 hadn't quit on me.

    Why would I want W8.1?
    Now the Windows Icon used to get to the Start Screen is not just hidden away on the Charms Bar. Its on the Taskbar too where the Start Button used to be. ..and it is possible to configure windows 8.1 to boot into the Desktop. Also, after choosing that setting, when I close an app in the Start Screen, I automatically go back to the Desktop. Sweet! Windows 8.1 seems to boot a little faster too, but people who use an SSD like you do redwudz may not be able to tell the difference.

    Windows 8.1 provides some training for using the Hot Corners. Some changes were made to the built-in apps for 8,1, which some people like and some do not. For example, Messenger is dead and the I.M. function has been moved to the Skype app and there is now a Facebook app. (I don't use Messenger or Facebook, so I don't care, but some people do.) I'm sure there are other things that are different too, but I'm not aware of them yet.
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    Originally Posted by gll99
    almost automatic except to force me to create or use an email account plus requesting a device / cell to supposedly send a security code which I find invasive
    I saw that when I installed win 8 myself. I just clicked cancel. I don't use the modern gui screen (use to be metro). I just go straight to the desktop anyway.

    I think I'll wait a bit to do the 8.1 update. Hopefully even though I'm always on with my cable modem I won't have to do an auto install of 8.1 just yet.

    Maybe they'll have 8.105 ready before I commit.

    I'll have to look for that iso for sure if its available straight from ms. I do have the actual real physical install discs for win8 and I'd want to be able to recreate win8 and then go to win8.1 without any headaches, though that might not be in the offering right now. I'll have to wait and see when this shakes down.
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  15. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    the consumer update is only available by online update and the download is 3-4gb. ONLY vlc customers can get an iso to do mass updates of corporate computers.
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    For close to $1,000 per MSDN subscription, you can get the 8.1 ISO, by the way. What a deal, huh?

    Here's one option that some of my clients will choose: they've had Win8 problems that accumulated over time (odd Win Explorer Failure To Copy's, and some Desktop Programs that stalled or had 90-120-second 'lock-up pauses'). So, we're doing Data Backups for them and we'll wipe out their Win8 Install and re-install Win8 on a clean drive. Then do the Win8.1 upgrade, and then install all the Desktop Programs they use for productivity and money-making.

    And hope and pray those work because the OS should have ZERO consequence for every productive computer user. It's the programs that matter, not the bleepin' OS. Or rather, it should NOT have anything to do with shutting down productivity.

    But we've already seen that anyone still using MS OFFICE 2003 might have difficulties with the Windows Update "for other Microsoft products" as MS OFFICE 2003's presence can stall or stop those. The answer seems to be to turn off "other Microsoft products" when doing WinUpdates, and doing all of those 'other products' manually. Oh well... 'tis the fate of all old software.

    And it could be worse...
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    This may work for those with a Windows 8 retail license. The product key for a Windows 8 OEM license installed on pre-built computer will be rejected.
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  18. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I went ahead and upgraded my W8/64 laptop to W8.1/64 as it was qualified.
    I had ungraded the laptop from W7/64 last year with a OEM disc.


    I left Start8 in place and so far, everything works OK.

    But I don't do much with this laptop except surf the net and send email and run Word.


    The download was easy enough and took about an hour or so. It's all automatic, so you just let it run.


    The PC in my computer details and my other PCs are running W7 and likely will be for some time.
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  19. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Is the large 3.5gb+ update file still on your computer or does it get deleted after install
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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  20. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Probably deleted. The installer takes over the OS, so you can't really tell what it's doing. I did end up with two new folders in root of the 'C'' drive:

    There is a large folder, 'Windows.old' with todays date and time of about 7PM, the time of the upgrade. It's about 4GB, but just seems to be stuff from the old OS.

    A second folder, '$Windows~BT' is also there, about 137 MB. This is possibly the remains of the installer.
    It has an empty folder, 'New OS' that may have been the update OS file.
    Last edited by redwudz; 20th Oct 2013 at 02:42.
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  21. Member Krispy Kritter's Avatar
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    While you can't perform a fresh install of 8.1 with your 8 key, you should still be able to install v8 with the v8 key. So you simply need the v8 iso and the 8.1 upgrade file.
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    Originally Posted by Krispy Kritter View Post
    While you can't perform a fresh install of 8.1 with your 8 key, you should still be able to install v8 with the v8 key. So you simply need the v8 iso and the 8.1 upgrade file.
    Sure, you can probably install Windows 8 again and afterwards upgrade to Windows 8.1, but the way Microsoft set things up, one must download the upgrade from the Windows 8 App Store each time to install Windows 8.1. The installer doesn't allow you the option to create an ISO to save the upgrade at any point in the process. As redwudz said, the installer takes over. The only pause in the process is when the installer asks the user to agree/disagree with the terms of the license. After the installer finishes, there is no upgrade file on your system anymore.

    The consumer upgrade from the Windows 8 App Store is good because will retain the installed programs and data for most people upgrading from Windows 8, but having to download it each time sucks. Besides, will Joe Consumer still be able to download the upgrade for free three years from now if his hard drive dies and he has to start over from scratch? I suspect not. I expect at some point Microsoft will either stop offering this upgrade or put a price tag on it.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    stop offering this upgrade or put a price tag on it.
    If that includes a physical install disc for the .1 part that wouldn't be too horrible. So long as it was like 10.00 or something...... Fat chance I know but you could dream.
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  24. Member Krispy Kritter's Avatar
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    I would expect it to always be available. Take XP as an example. There are CD versions of each release (XP, SP1, SP2, SP3), but you can still use the original standard release and update. Windows 8 will most likely be no different. And Microsoft didn't give out SPx discs free. They did provide iso access, but that was after the update became mandatory and not an option.
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  25. Member ranchhand's Avatar
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    Microsoft has pulled the upgrade download (temporarily) due to system crash complaints. It happened to me; not only did it crash my 8.0 Pro version, but then corrupted my Windows 7 Ult which was on a separate hard drive and not even booted! Thank goodness for Macrium Reflect, I was back up in an hour, but 8 had a corrupted partition and I had to totally reinstall (I hadn't imaged it yet).

    http://tech2.in.com/news/software/microsoft-pulls-windows-rt-81-update-to-fix-problems/918022
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  26. Here's the answer to your question.
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    Originally Posted by nic2k4 View Post
    Here's the answer to your question.
    Thanks but I already I know about it and posted a link to a page about the trick in this thread yesterday. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/359601-The-free-upgrade-from-Windows-8-to-Windows-8...=1#post2275238
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 21st Oct 2013 at 14:04.
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    Originally Posted by ranchhand View Post
    Microsoft has pulled the upgrade download (temporarily) due to system crash complaints. It happened to me; not only did it crash my 8.0 Pro version, but then corrupted my Windows 7 Ult which was on a separate hard drive and not even booted! Thank goodness for Macrium Reflect, I was back up in an hour, but 8 had a corrupted partition and I had to totally reinstall (I hadn't imaged it yet).

    http://tech2.in.com/news/software/microsoft-pulls-windows-rt-81-update-to-fix-problems/918022
    The linked article says that Microsoft pulled the upgrade download for Windows 8.1 RT, which is for tablets/mobile devices only. It says nothing about them pulling the download for PC versions of Windows 8.1, although many are reporting problems with it.
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    This is why I switched to linux ...
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    Originally Posted by Hoser Rob View Post
    This is why I switched to linux ...
    Somehow I knew the Linux fanboys around would join in. Now where are the Apple fanboys?

    Those using Linux can never seem to remember that it is not exactly without some really annoying gotchas too. I will never take Linux seriously until more hardware manufacturers provide Linux drivers for download at their own website instead of depending on third parties. I will still take Windows and its problems over spending even more of my free time tinkering with the OS and checking compatibility for any new piece of hardware I want to add to my system.
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