Why does internet explorer still come with Windows?

[yoda313]

It just hit me that Windows 8 comes with Internet Explorer already.

What the hell was the point of that giant lawsuit against Microsoft in the late 90's or early 2000's over packing internet explorer with windows?

[jagabo]

Only in Europe where they forced to offer a version of Windows without IE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case#Judgement

In the US they were merely given a stern finger wag. Thanks to Bush Jr.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#Settlement

[yoda313]

Thanks jagabo. I didn't know the wmp was part of that whole fiasco too.

Did they ever actually show windows couldn't run without ie? Wasn't that their main defense?

Was that win 95/98?

[budwzr]

Companies and their employees that use Enterprise Server need to use IE for their intranet.

There's nothing wrong with IE per se. It was the aggressive manner they used to stifle other browsers.

Microsoft at least sells SDK's and developer tools, so others can make a decent living doing custom designs and support. They're no worse than Adobe, Sony, or Apple.

Quite a few online services like Realtor MLS boards are built on IE, and you have to use it. Because they run ActiveX controls.

[Noahtuck]

There's nothing wrong with IE per se

I don't know if I would go quite that far but.....

[deadrats]

It just hit me that Windows 8 comes with Internet Explorer already.

What the hell was the point of that giant lawsuit against Microsoft in the late 90's or early 2000's over packing internet explorer with windows?

i for one always found the whole "M$ is evil for bundling a browser with their OS" thing stupid beyond belief. think about all the times you have had to install an OS from scratch, after you install the OS and install the motherboard drivers what's the very next thing you do? you go online to see if there are drivers for the rest of your hardware that weren't included on the motherboard cd and you hit windows update.

can you imagine if MS sold windows without a browser and after you finished installing the OS and motherboard drivers you had no way of connecting to the internet to continue setting up your system. i supposed the more advanced users could open up a command prompt and try to wget or ftp a browser but that assumes that the person installing windows knows off the top of his/her head the ip address of a server hosting a browser and it would still require MS to bundle a utility like wget or ftp with which to connect to a remote server.

it's retarded really, people were jealous that MS was/is so successful and they used any means they could to try and get a piece of the pie.

besides, it's MS' OS, one would thin they should have the right to bundle whatever software they want with it; no one seems to have a problem that they include some games, including chess with some versions or simple image editing and text editing software but something as essential as a browser is like "NO!!!, you can't do that, it's anti-competitve, people might use your free browser rather than the free browser that we are giving away like the browser sluts we are".

[usually_quiet]

To add to what jagabo said, at one point Microsoft actually was set to comply with the judgement against them by releasing a version of Windows 7 in the EU with no browser, and therefore no built-in means for users to access the Internet. Eventually this idea was superseded by the current browser ballot, which requires users to choose which browser to install.

[yoda313]

Eventually this idea was superseded by the current browser ballot, which requires users to choose which browser to install.

So do they ship with chrome and firefox or do they offer direct downloads?

[usually_quiet]

Eventually this idea was superseded by the current browser ballot, which requires users to choose which browser to install.

So do they ship with chrome and firefox or do they offer direct downloads?

They provide the ability to download the browser the user picks.

[yoda313]

Thanks usually_quiet.

[budwzr]

I was raised on DOS versions 1-6, and thought Windows was for dummies. And it was, for a while there.

But if MS hadn't done it, we'd all be using Apple. And that's a worser fate. Everything's simple and locked up. No tinkerin', no upgrading, no Virtual Dub, no Sony Vegas. Just a buncha 3rd grade crap.

Apple is catering to the users that are least likely to know whether they're getting hosed or not. So you just have to take whatever Apple dishes out.

And if Apple smells money in another direction, you have to follow along or end up on a deserted island, like those FCP people after Apple's foray into Hollywood editing. Apple paid off Walter Murch for an endorsement and then opted to chase the consumer instead. More money.

Now Apple has the nerve to say Android is a knock-off of the iPhone/Pad/Touch. They're so greedy.

[Mephesto]

It just hit me that Windows 8 comes with Internet Explorer already.

What the hell was the point of that giant lawsuit against Microsoft in the late 90's or early 2000's over packing internet explorer with windows?

Microsoft was purposely abusing their monopoly to corner every possible market they could and the browser market was their next target at around 1996 when they were jealous of Netscape that had a large user base and kept growing. He admitted all of it in an email.

Gotta say that case was hilarious to watch, Bill Gates acting like an autistic knob-gobbler not knowing the meaning of basic words and having selective amnesia. The attorney even asked him if he needed a dictionary, hah.

Boies: Okay. Now, let me go on to another paragraph and see whether you remember writing that or not. And that is the second paragraph, which reads, "Apparently a lot of OEMs are bundling non-Microsoft browsers and coming up with offerings together with Internet Service providers that get displayed on their machines in a FAR" and you've capitalized each of the letters in far "more prominent way than MSN or our Internet browser." Do you see that?
Gates: Uh-huh.
Boies: Did you write that sentence, Mr. Gates?
Gates: I don't remember, but I have no reason to doubt that I did.
Boies: Do you remember what you were thinking when you wrote that sentence or what you meant when you wrote that sentence?
Gates: No.
Boies: Do you remember that in January, 1996, a lot of OEMs were bundling non-Microsoft browsers?
Gates: I'm not sure.
Boies: What were the non-Microsoft browsers that you were concerned about in January of 1996?
Gates: What's the question? You're trying to get me to recall what other browsers I was thinking about when I wrote that sentence?
Boies: No, because you've told me that you don't know what you were thinking about when you wrote that sentence.
Gates: Right.
Boies: What I'm trying to do is get you to tell me what non-Microsoft browsers you were concerned about in January of 1996. If it had been only one, I probably would have used the name of it. Instead I seem to be using the term non-Microsoft browsers. My question is what non-Microsoft browsers were you concerned about in January of 1996?
Gates: I'm sure -- what's the question? Is it -- are you asking me about when I wrote this e-mail or what are you asking me about?
Boies: I'm asking you about January of 1996.
Gates: That month?
Boies: Yes, sir.
Gates: And what about it?
Boies: What non-Microsoft browsers were you concerned about in January of 1996?
Gates: I don't know what you mean "concerned."
Boies: What is it about the word "concerned" that you don't understand?
Gates: I'm not sure what you mean by it.
Boies: Is-
Gates: Is there a document where I use that term?
Boies: Is the term "concerned" a term that you're familiar with in the English language?
Gates: Yes.
Boies: Does it have a meaning that you're familiar with?
Gates: Yes.
Boies: Using the word "concerned" -- consistent with the normal meaning that it has in the English language, what Microsoft -- or what non-Microsoft browsers were you concerned about in January of 1996?
Gates: Well, I think I would have been concerned about Internet Explorer, what was going on with it.

[Hoser Rob]

There's nothing wrong with IE per se

I don't know if I would go quite that far but.....

I don't either.

The problem with IE ... which I believe persists in win 8 ... is that Internet Explorer is part of Windows Explorer, which has automatic administrator privileges. And, since the permission levels in windows stink in general, if you can hack into IE (which isn't that hard) you can get access to the rest of the system ridiculously easily. Other browsers don't have this problem because they're just regular client apps with no special privileges.

The very first thing I do online on a windows system ... before installing linux ... is install firefox and remove IE from the task bar.

As to the original question, I do remember that lawsuit in the EU. I thought it was a little overdone at the time. I'm not rabidly anti government but the EU bureaucrats are sillier than average. Microsoft didn't force you to use IE.

My only problem with that is that I know people who bought windows boxes and didn't know that were alternatives to that piece of crap.

[jagabo]

Gotta say that case was hilarious to watch, Bill Gates acting like an autistic knob-gobbler not knowing the meaning of basic words and having selective amnesia. The attorney even asked him if he needed a dictionary, hah.

He was very well coached by his attorneys. Talk a lot without saying anything. Just like Ronald Reagan during the Iran Contra hearings. Although, as we now know, Reagan probably truly didn't remember anything! And Bill Clinton needing the definition of the word "is".

[budwzr]

"Autistic Knob Gobbler"? Next thing you're gonna say is Hillary Clinton is a non-knobgobbling ugly haggard man-hating power-hungry butch lesbian. And her voice sounds like the wicked witch from Oz.

She can kill a boner faster than getting it caught in your zipper.

[TreeTops]

Atta boy Bud.

[budwzr]

What Gates is saying is that other browser makers are using automatic scripts too aggressively in an attempt to circumvent IE. Unsuspecting users might not know that these browsers are "3rd Party" and may alter the "Windows Experience".

Windows is an integrated set of tools, and there are benefits in that, politics aside. Gates has a duty to protect it from bastardization.

Sony Vegas gets its speed from utilizing the MS Query Server built in to Windows. The MS database engine is highly evolved. It adheres to E.F. Codd's 10 forms of normalization better than most other DB engines.

Sony Vegas IS Windows in it's highest art form. Vegas leverages Windows perfectly, like a fine orchestra plays a concerto.

Sure, the Apache Server is the most popular on the web, because it's free, and it works well as a web server. But when you need to run a company you need MS or Oracle under the hood. Those are the badass go-to boys for power users.

IBM couldn't deal with the consumer, that's why they sold DOS to Gates. The guy revolutionized the industry, and deserves credit.

[Mephesto]

"Autistic Knob Gobbler"? Next thing you're gonna say is Hillary Clinton is a non-knobgobbling ugly haggard man-hating power-hungry butch lesbian. And her voice sounds like the wicked witch from Oz.

She can kill a boner faster than getting it caught in your zipper.

Nah, Hilary isn't a knob-gobbler, she's a knob-shiner. Don't even get me started on her.

jagabo, Clinton needed that definition? I'll be happy to provide it:

Is (Verb)
1. Is you a dumb ****?

Mephesto always happy to educate.