s-vhs vs composite

[Tafflad]

Is there a significant difference in quality between playing VHS video over s-video and over composite video ... in order to capture ?
Bearing in mind that this is a VHS tape (NTSC) being output to a Happauge capture card (PAL 60)


(corrected typo)

[hech54]

Is there a significant difference in quality between playing video out over s-vhs and over composite video ... in order to capture ?

Do you mean S-Video vs. Red, Blue, and Green RCA/Cinch connection?

Bearing in mind that this is a VHS tape (NTSC) being output to a Happauge capture card (PAL 60)

Which Hauppauge "card" does PAL60?

[mike20021969]

Do you mean S-Video vs. Red, Blue, and Green RCA/Cinch connection?

He said composite

Why do you think he means component?

[Tafflad]

Do you mean S-Video vs. Red, Blue, and Green RCA/Cinch connection?

He said composite

Why do you think he means component?

I don't, the vcr outputs are SCART, s-video or composite.

Just wondered how much poorer composite would be over s-video, when capturing NTSC video (via PAL60)

[sanlyn]

In most cases, s-video is considerably cleaner and could also be sharper due to less noise through s-video. It depends on the components in use; the quality of s-video circuitry can differ from unit to unit. Usually, s-video is better. It shouldn't be difficult to try and compare.

[Tafflad]

In most cases, s-video is considerably cleaner and could also be sharper due to less noise through s-video. It depends on the components in use; the quality of s-video circuitry can differ from unit to unit. Usually, s-video is better. It shouldn't be difficult to try and compare.

unfortunately not an option.
On separate thread, been asking about DV capture of an NTSC video ... have an option by a user here to. do this, but it will be using composite video into a Happauge pc card .. although card takes s-video, his vcr does not output this.

[sanlyn]

If the source player doesn't have s-video output, then obviously s-video is not an option.

[jagabo]

S-video definitely is superior but a lot will depend on the (S)VHS deck, the recording itself, and the capture card.

[Tafflad]

I do have an svhs vcr that does s-video.
what I'm trying to figure out how much diff it will make, and if it's big, then I need to find a way to use it.

[hech54]

Do you mean S-Video vs. Red, Blue, and Green RCA/Cinch connection?

He said composite

Why do you think he means component?

1) He already confused up s-vhs with s-video
2) He previously insisted he could magically capture an NTSC tape via a PAL VCR easily....in color:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/358465-Panasonic-NV-HS800B?p=2263592&viewfull=1#post2263592
3) Now it turns out he does not even have s-video available to him.
I like to confirm what I am dealing with BEFORE I open my mouth or give lengthy explanations to a person
who, in the past, has refused to accept what EVERYONE else has explained to him.
Try it sometime. It makes you look less foolish.

[sanlyn]

I think you're confused about "SVHS" and "s-video". SVHS is a tape format. s-video is a type of cable and signal transmission. The two have nothing to do with each other. If you have a DVD player, you can play that DVD with whatever output the DVD player allows: composite (worst), s-video (better), component (best) or HDMI (similar to component in overall quality). If your SVHS player allows s-video output, then use s-video. If s-video doesn't look better to you than composite, then use composite. Check your player's user manual for setting up the output.

[jagabo]

The biggest difference you're likely to notice between composite and s-video is the lack of dot crawl artifacts when using s-video. Look closely at the boundaries between different color in these caps:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/221249-Test-Caps-various-composite-and-s-video-cabl...ight=composite

You'll see dot crawl artifacts on all the composite caps, none on the s-video caps. Those sample weren't captured from VHS tape so they're much cleaner than you can expect from VHS. Dot crawl artifacts are much more obvious in video than in still shots -- because they move.

VHS has low horizontal resolution so you won't see much resolution difference between the two cable types. But different decks may apply different amounts of sharpening which usually leads to oversharpening halos.

If the S-VHS deck has a line TBC you'll get much less horizontal jitter and much cleaner compression with inter-frame codecs. That's not dependent on what cable you use but I don't think there are any standard VHS decks with a line TBC built in.

[Brad]

From what I've seen it depends on the combination of your VCR's sharpness level and the comb filter in your capture device. If you're not seeing visible artifacts there may not be much to improve upon.

All of these images use composite output, from two regular VCRs:


The amount of rainbowing on that one image really surprised me.

I think you're confused about "SVHS" and "s-video". SVHS is a tape format. s-video is a type of cable and signal transmission. The two have nothing to do with each other.

That's overstating things; the connector was introduced along with the S-VHS VCR. If the company that invented the format has no problems throwing around "S-VHS plug"/"S-VHS cable", who are we to argue...

[Tafflad]

[QUOTE=hech54;2265845]

Do you mean S-Video vs. Red, Blue, and Green RCA/Cinch connection

1) He already confused up s-vhs with s-video
2) He previously insisted he could magically capture an NTSC tape via a PAL VCR easily....in color:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/358465-Panasonic-NV-HS800B?p=2263592&viewfull=1#post2263592
3) Now it turns out he does not even have s-video available to him.
I like to confirm what I am dealing with BEFORE I open my mouth or give lengthy explanations to a person
who, in the past, has refused to accept what EVERYONE else has explained to him.
Try it sometime. It makes you look less foolish.

1 ... yes it was a typo which I corrected
2 ... That is a fact, although as pointed out I used 2 x Panasonic VCR (one multi format S-VHS, the other plain VHS) and a Panasonic Plasma TV ... between those 3, I managed to make copies of the tape. Sorry if you choose not to believe me, but it still remains a fact.
3 ... I do have S-video .. in the original thread you reference - I clearly explained that I have a Panasonic S-VHS VCR that has S-video output (as well as SCART & composite) ... from the help given by others in that thread I have accepted that with that sole VCR although I can watch the video I cannot capture it.
So I have accepted what I was told ... so I do not feel in any way foolish

Separately one of the forum members from that thread (who is being extremely helpful) has now got the tape and is capturing it by composite video output into a capture card.
The point of the OP of this thread was .. to ascertain if there is likely to be a huge amount of difference in using composite compared to S-video ...... he has no option to use S-video, if there is likely to be a huge difference then I would need to find an alternative way forward.


Now if you choose to state he cannot capture an NTSC video from a PAL VCR into a Hauppage PC card ... then once again it is a fact he has just uploaded a sample capture for me to view.

[hech54]

Now if you choose to state he cannot capture an NTSC video from a PAL VCR into a Hauppage PC card ... then once again it is a fact he has just uploaded a sample capture for me to view.

These facts still remain.
YOU did not capture PAL(with an NTSC tape)from your PAL VCR.
The Good Samaritan did NOT capture PAL(with an NTSC tape) from a PAL VCR.
Neither of your standard PAL VCRs(yours or The Good Samaritan's) magically converted NTSC to PAL.
Composite or S-Video makes no difference, one or the other does NOT enable a VCR to magically convert between PAL><NTSC.
You have just quoted and replied to a conversation that was NOT directed at you.

[Tafflad]

what help are your comments, look , at the start of the thread, your comments do not help in any way, or was that the point.
I'll try again in simpler terms .... help from another user has captured the NTSC tape into mpeg2 format, using PAL vcr into a pc capture card .... the file is in color with audio.
My Q (which others have thankfully answered) was only question was whether using composite was hugely different to S-video.

[hech54]

what help are your comments, look , at the start of the thread, your comments do not help in any way, or was that the point.
I'll try again in simpler terms .... help from another user has captured the NTSC tape into mpeg2 format, using PAL vcr into a pc capture card .... the file is in color with audio.
My Q (which others have thankfully answered) was only question was whether using composite was hugely different to S-video.

And my question was....and still is:
Which Hauppauge "card" does PAL60?
I want to buy one. Many others here would like to have someone who was able to confirm this so they too can capture NTSC tapes, in color, in PAL60, with a PAL VCR. So far I have confirmed that the Hauppauge USB Live2 can do it with WinTV v7.0.30312(CD2.6c). We'd sure like to have another confirmation of another hardware/software combination that can do this.
Thank you in advance for your upcoming information.
Or maybe your "friend" can chime in here and help us out?

[Tafflad]

I don't know, I'll ask him ..... it is user DB83

[DB83]

Since I have been 'exposed', the capture device is a WinTv-Express PCI card (2007 vintage). Whether you could buy one these days I know not.

This particular model has the BT878 chip so with the right software will expose its PAL60 capabilities. I currently use Dscaler for that.

There is also a BTWinCap driver available to use with other capture sofware. In the past I did manage to use that with Ulead and mpeg1/mpeg-2 capture.

[hech54]

Since I have been 'exposed', the capture device is a WinTv-Express PCI card (2007 vintage). Whether you could buy one these days I know not.

This particular model has the BT878 chip so with the right software will expose its PAL60 capabilities. I currently use Dscaler for that.

Thank You.
Next time you have that out of your machine PLEASE post a pic of it.....especially if the BT878 chip is easily identifiable.

[DB83]

There is a pic on Amazon. The chip is the large square one just above the PCI connector.

I am still on XP so do not know how this would function on later OS.

The chip used to be present on older ATI Wonders and Matrox Marvels (I had one of these but when the AGP Mainboard died the card went with it (: )

[hech54]

I'm beginning to realize that my chances of finding one of these are "slim" and "none". Even if you do come across one, and it has a picture of the item, you can't read which chip it has.

[DB83]

AFAIK The WinTV Express only had the BT878. The problem with Hauppuage is that they produced all sorts of PCI cards and all had the title WinTv.

If you were fortunate to see the product box(which I no longer have) then that did have a indication on it that it had the BT878 chip and soft pvr.

[DB83]

Get it here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hauppauge-WinTV-analoge-PCI-TV-Karte-WinTV-Express-PAL-B-G-4...ht_2307wt_1178

Just scroll down and it confirms the chip as 878

[Brad]

That's the Conexant Fusion 878A, not the original 878 from when they were called Brooktree. Don't know if it makes any difference in regards to PAL60 support.

[DB83]

According to the list here

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Hauppauge_Computer_Works?o=2802&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

The WinTv Express uses the BT878A. Since there is no disclaimer on the BTWinCap page about the 'A' then I expect these to compliment each other.

Do not know about the Fusion variant but to have two chips with the same number would be darn confusing. What I do know is that the CX23... do NOT support PAL60. I bought an ATI wonder and found to my horror that they had changed the BT878 chip to this.