Sick and tired of using Hauppauge HD PVR (Need reccommendations!)

[GEOLINK]

Hi folks,

Been using a Hauppauge HD PVR (this one) for almost 3 years now for capturing T.V. programs over my HD set-top cable box. But recently, actually, since I first got the thing. I noticed that the picture quality always seems fuzzy and blurry at the bottom at every video.

I record at 13.5mb the highest bitrate settings and use constant bitrate on every video.

I'm getting annoyed at the video quality I'm getting because my captures compare to lets say someone else on YouTube that uses a capture device to upload a clip from a T.V. show looks more cleaner and crisp than mine does.

I was wondering if anyone can recommend me a good device that I can record T.V. shows, PS3, etc. on.

I was thinking maybe a PC capture device might be better than something like a HD PVR.

My PC specs are: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=16706029

[jagabo]

Are you sure the problem is the HD PVR not your cable provider? Some cable companies use too much compression so they can pack in more channels onto their limited systems.

[GEOLINK]

Are you sure the problem is the HD PVR not your cable provider? Some cable companies use too much compression so they can pack in more channels onto their limited systems.

Hey,

My cable provider is currently Time Warner. And the picture quality I say looks pretty good on most channels. Certain channels like Universal HD looks compressed to hell, especially during sport shows where everything is moving fast.

Also, my capture videos come out with this fuzzy almost blurring movements at the bottom of the video when there's fast movements going on which bug me to no end. I'm almost certain it's the capture device that's doing this.

[yoda313]

Also, my capture videos come out with this fuzzy almost blurring movements at the bottom of the video when there's fast movements going on which bug me to no end. I'm almost certain it's the capture device that's doing this.

Are you capturing interlaced? Have you tried setting the cable box to 720p and capturing progressive? That might improve the image quality.

Edit - the first gen hdpvr can't capture 1080p. So don't try.


I don't know if the hdpvr2 can do 1080p over component or not. Probably can but you'd have to read the specs to know for sure.

Edit 2 - I guess thats irrelevant for tv capture - aren't cable/sat/fios channels only 1080i on the max side? I know that is true for ota hd - what about cable systems? They top at 1080i right?

[Des]

I would start with checking some of the basics of your set up, primarily the integrity of the cables and connections going into your HD PVR. I use a Hauppauge 1950 for captures in a home made DVR set up and the results are excellent from my FIOS box, but I am not capturing HD.
Perhaps someone else can answer regarding the bitrate you are using to capture, I don't know if 13.5mbs is adequate for HD capture.

Jagabo is correct regarding compression issues and may be worth looking into. Here is a link to a discussion on AVS Forum regarding Time Warner quality: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1376604/just-got-time-warner-cable-why-is-my-hd-quality-so-poor
A Google search may yield better discussions than this one.

--dES

[GEOLINK]

@yoda Yes, all of my captures are in 1920x1080i. I have recorded some in 720p but I've noticed that the colors seem off because the native resolution for my set top box is 1080i. But the picture quality is much more crisper and gets rid of the fuzz at the bottom of the video problem I have.

My problem isn't trying to record in 1080p. My problem is the fact that the video recordings are coming out blurry, and the fuzz at the bottom of the video which most likely comes from the encoding from the capture.

@Des The cable I use that goes from set-top composite to HD PVR is this one. Hopefully that helps you out to know if that's what's screwing me up on the quality.

Also, I'm not too knowledgeable about these sorts of things so I figured I ask here for best advice. Google was making go all over the place and I wasn't finding the exact problem I was having.

[vhelp]

i think its the case of capturing vs recording.

i would suggest finding out first, what your friend is using to obtain the videos. see if he is analog capturing (if thats still possible with hd) or recording the streams (ota/qam) since this is basically a transfer of the actual content with no conversion or quality loss. what is the capture/recording hardware used.

next, find out how (if) he is processing the obtained videos (what is he using: ivtc, filters, noise reduction, software, etc) and final container format used to upload to youtube. what resolution is your browser giving you in youtube, you may need to change it manually.

otherwise, it could just be a combination of the above, plus the cable providers poor quality of that station or program.

[GEOLINK]

i think its the case of capturing vs recording.

i would suggest finding out first, what your friend is using to obtain the videos. see if he is analog capturing (if thats still possible with hd) or recording the streams (ota/qam) since this is basically a transfer of the actual content with no conversion or quality loss. what is the capture/recording hardware used.

next, find out how (if) he is processing the obtained videos (what is he using: ivtc, filters, noise reduction, software, etc) and final container format used to upload to youtube. what resolution is your browser giving you in youtube, you may need to change it manually.

otherwise, it could just be a combination of the above, plus the cable providers poor quality of that station or program.

Oh no, you misunderstood me.

I wasn't talking about a friend. I was just saying if I go on a YouTube channel where someone is uploading clips from a T.V. show, the video looks much more cripser and cleaner than mine.

[GEOLINK]

I knew I couldn't leave you guys without any reference pictures of how my quality of captures are.

Here's capture frames of what a 1080i capture looks like and a 720p capture looks like from my source:

1080i

http://www.imagebam.com/image/a569f8273686489
http://www.imagebam.com/image/8920a9273686498
http://www.imagebam.com/image/422a5b273686510

720p

http://www.imagebam.com/image/a1f671273686474
http://www.imagebam.com/image/0ae0a2273686479
http://www.imagebam.com/image/23ee10273686482

Also, I notice that in my recordings especially in dark shots or times where there's no picture I can see little signal lines going up/down the screen. It also comes out in the recording.

Sorry guys if I'm moving to another subject but I want to give you guys examples of what I'm seeing.

[usually_quiet]

i think its the case of capturing vs recording.

i would suggest finding out first, what your friend is using to obtain the videos. see if he is analog capturing (if thats still possible with hd) or recording the streams (ota/qam) since this is basically a transfer of the actual content with no conversion or quality loss. what is the capture/recording hardware used.

next, find out how (if) he is processing the obtained videos (what is he using: ivtc, filters, noise reduction, software, etc) and final container format used to upload to youtube. what resolution is your browser giving you in youtube, you may need to change it manually.

otherwise, it could just be a combination of the above, plus the cable providers poor quality of that station or program.

Oh no, you misunderstood me.

I wasn't talking about a friend. I was just saying if I go on a YouTube channel where someone is uploading clips from a T.V. show, the video looks much more cripser and cleaner than mine.

There are other HD capture devices that are supposed to make crisper captures than Hauppauge's products, but none of them capture 5.1 audio, and some of them don't allow using an IR Blaster or PVR software. Are you willing to do manual captures?

Are you even sure the video posted on YouTube was obtained with a capture device that encodes its input? While not everyone in the US can use them successfully, a CableCARD Tuner or Firewire out from an HD cablebox are sometimes used to record the MPEG-2 video stream and AC3 audio streams directly.

[GEOLINK]

@usually_quiet I say most of my captures have been done manually and not using the IR Blaster for remote capturing.

[GEOLINK]

Also, is the long component cable a problem?

This is the cable I use that goes from set top to HD PVR

[jagabo]

Long component cables can be problematic but that's not the problem you're having.

Your 1080i captures are looking very bad. They show severe blocking (from too little bitrate) and poor deinterlacing. The blocking could be in the cable source, from the HD PVR, or some of each. The poor deinterlacing might just be the way you produced the sample image. One field has been thrown away and the other duplicated to fill in the missing lines.

The 720p caps look much cleaner but they also show similar deinterlacing problems for some reason. Either your software or the cable company was deinterlacing needlessly. It might be better if you posted short clips straight from the HD PVR.

[usually_quiet]

@usually_quiet I say most of my captures have been done manually and not using the IR Blaster for remote capturing.

Although it does not capture 5.1 audio, only stereo audio, the Elgato Game Capture HD can use a higher bitrate for HD capture than Hauppauge's HD capture devices: http://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Capture-PlayStation-Recorder-10025010/dp/B00840353W The one problem I have read about with the Elgato Game Capture HD is that you need a fairly powerful CPU for HD capture because its drivers call on the CPU to decode using the included software: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357657-Elgato-Game-Capture-HD-Video-Corruption?p=22...=1#post2256113 Although with your computer specs it shouldn't be a problem.

I guess I'm missing something because your screenshots don't look all that terrible to me. There were some interlacing artifacts in the screen captures but those are almost inevitable when making a screenshot from a 1080i source. However, some problems aren't easy to spot with only a screenshot. Most of the real video experts here prefer short video clips instead of screenshots for that reason.

[jagabo]

I guess I'm missing something because your screenshots don't look all that terrible to me.

You think this image isnt' so bad? (Be sure to view it at full size.)



I'd be horrified if my capture device gave that from a clean 1080i source. I'd rather watch it on VCD.

Compare that to a "best" cap of a clean source with an HD PVR 2:

[usually_quiet]

I guess I'm missing something because your screenshots don't look all that terrible to me.

You think this image isnt' so bad? (Be sure to view it at full size.)


[Attachment 19876 - Click to enlarge]

I'd be horrified if my capture device gave that from a clean 1080i source. I'd rather watch it on VCD.

Compare that to a "best" cap of a clean source with an HD PVR 2:


[Attachment 19877 - Click to enlarge]

I overlooked the link for that one somehow. LOL Actually I know how. It's my wireless mouse. It goes crazy at random intervals and causes the cursor to move erratically. Time to get my old wired mouse out of the drawer until I buy a new wireless mouse.

[GEOLINK]

@usually_quiet Thanks! I'll be sure to look it up. Is it really better than Hauppauge's HD PVR?

I'd be sure to post short clips soon.

I forgot to mention that I use a spare laptop to record as my desktop is about a couple of feet away from my T.V. and set top cable box.

The laptop I use barely gets me by with using Hauppauge's software. It's not nearly as powerful as my desktop.

Also, 13.5mb is the highest bitrate Hauppauge's software can take it to. So I doubt it's a fault on my end.

[GEOLINK]

Edit - nvm

[usually_quiet]

@usually_quiet Thanks! I'll be sure to look it up. Is it really better than Hauppauge's HD PVR?

I'd be sure to post short clips soon.

I forgot to mention that I use a spare laptop to record as my desktop is about a couple of feet away from my T.V. and set top cable box.

The laptop I use barely gets me by with using Hauppauge's software. It's not nearly as powerful as my desktop.

Also, 13.5mb is the highest bitrate Hauppauge's software can take it to. So I doubt it's a fault on my end.

The Elgato Game Capture HD's software supports a bitrate of up to 30 Mbit/sec for 1080i using "best" quality setting http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=4411 However I think it must use variable bitrate, not constant.

[GEOLINK]

@usually_quiet Thanks! I'll be sure to look it up. Is it really better than Hauppauge's HD PVR?

I'd be sure to post short clips soon.

I forgot to mention that I use a spare laptop to record as my desktop is about a couple of feet away from my T.V. and set top cable box.

The laptop I use barely gets me by with using Hauppauge's software. It's not nearly as powerful as my desktop.

Also, 13.5mb is the highest bitrate Hauppauge's software can take it to. So I doubt it's a fault on my end.

The Elgato Game Capture HD's software supports a bitrate of up to 30 Mbit/sec for 1080i using "best" quality setting http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=4411 However I think it must use variable bitrate, not constant.

Wow that's quite the bitrate. Might have to look into it as well.

[GEOLINK]

Uploaded two sets of files that has 2 different clips. Both :20, one is 1080i and the other is 720p; untouched.

http://www.mediafire.com/?992bewqxa22e7ex

http://www.mediafire.com/?nqxu6nba631sf6d

[jagabo]

The Elgato Game Capture HD's software supports a bitrate of up to 30 Mbit/sec for 1080i using "best" quality setting http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=4411 However I think it must use variable bitrate, not constant.

You can't directly specify the bitrate or CBR/VBR. There's just a slider that ranges from good to best. At best, with 1080i or 1080p sources you get 30 Mb/s CBR, or very nearly so. Here's a Bitrate Viewer report of a mostly static clip at recorded "best":



At lower quality settings you get more of a VBR.


Regarding the OP's problems: I think there's either something wrong with his HD PVR (which doesn't seem likely since his 720p caps don't look too bad) or his cable company is just over-compressing the channel and he's got some poor deinterlacing going on.

[classfour]

I noticed that the picture quality always seems fuzzy and blurry at the bottom at every video.

Were the captures from a VCR or TV source?

It wasn't the usual "encoding" that's in the bottom of broadcast video?

If it is - won't show up in mpg files when converted to DVD.

[GEOLINK]

I noticed that the picture quality always seems fuzzy and blurry at the bottom at every video.

Were the captures from a VCR or TV source?

It wasn't the usual "encoding" that's in the bottom of broadcast video?

If it is - won't show up in mpg files when converted to DVD.

VCR?

I capture directly from my HD Set top cable box to the Happauge HD PVR.

I don't think it is.

I think you can see it in this picture I uploaded earlier: http://www.imagebam.com/image/a569f8273686489

Take a look at the bottom. Notice the little static-y things there. That looks much worse when the video is in motion.

[jagabo]

Were those 1080i caps an HD channel or upscaled SD? The blocking in the image is 16x16 blocks not the usual 8x8 blocks. You really should post actual clips from the device, not processed images.

[GEOLINK]

Were those 1080i caps an HD channel or upscaled SD? The blocking in the image is 16x16 blocks not the usual 8x8 blocks. You really should post actual clips from the device, not processed images.

HD channel

And I did post links to clips. If you look up ahead I posted 2 links for 2 different clips of my source.

One in 1080i and the other in 720p.

[jagabo]

Sorry, I missed the post with the clilps. I think your cable company is over compressing. And you have some kind of decoding/deinterlacing problem on your computer. My cable company typically sends good 1080i channels at around 9 Mb/s with occasional peaks up to 25 Mb/s.



That's a clear QAM capture so it's the MPEG 2 data from the cable company.

[GEOLINK]

The thing is is that it looks fine on T.V. while recording, but it looks like s__t on the recording.