Lossless conversion with Handbrake?

[WBFAir]

Your original video is encoded interlaced but that doesn't mean the frames actually contain interlaced video. You need to check the video by using a bob deinterlacer and stepping through the video field by field (frame by frame after the bob). Find a section with moderate continuous motion. If every field is different you have interlaced video. If pairs of fields are the same you have progressive video encoded interlaced. If you see fields repeating in a 3:2 pattern you have telecined film. If the source of that video was 8mm film you'll probably see longer repeat patterns.

Your x264 encoded video is encoded progressive. If the MPEG 2 source was really interlaced you should see comb artifacts when you watch the x264 video. Because the player won't know to show the video one field at a time.

Thanks for the info on that, sounds something I can take a look at when I get a chance.

Btw I got done with the re-encode of this file at the 9 setting on Handbrake, took about 45 min to do.

Total size came out to a little over 3g, so about 1.2 two over the org vob. Again, two audio track and one with Dolby could be part too.

Checked the OBR an was up to 11.6 for the final of it at 9 though, so am testing a run at 12 to see what I get with that now.

Btw I didn't mention it before, but I did run that 120 sec test run of at 9 for the slider on the all the systems before I did the full encode and it seemed to play fine & without any of the combing your taking of, but don't know how much of a test that is.

This second test at 12 should be done in about 20 more min and so think thats enough on this today for the fun of encoding side, so will take both and try a full watch after and see if I see any issues from the higher KB, and look for that combing thing too.

Thanks all

[jagabo]

Oh, by the way, even though your current machines appear to be handling variable frame rate encodes, I recommend you stick with constant frame rate. VFR only gets you a tiny bit more compression (typically less than 1 percent smaller files) but there are many devices that have problems with it. I don't think it's worth the tradoff.

Attached is an interlaced x264 encoded MKV which you can test with. You should get very smooth motion of the vertical bars and there should be no comb artifacts, ghosting, etc. It should look like this:

[WBFAir]

Yeah, actually that is another good point about using Handbrake with stuff I know works.

Yes I really haven't messed with a lot of trial an error on this as to do so would take many already long recodes mean even more.

But in many recommendations it talks about using either, and true that most say that CF can be better. But then mention if you have issues with CF to use variable. And for some of my earlier encoded's I tried constant and I did have issues, so switched to variable and using same as source and since then I've never had any issues.

All in all from my layman's knowledge, variable should in most cases be better over constant from the point of encoding as it knida gives the encoder the ability to encode by need, more then by restriction. Which means less opportunity for issues. Sort of an auto as it needs it thing. An with some of the Blu-Ray encoded already taking 8 hours for some, the last thing I wanted to do is pick the wrong frame rate or have for who knows what ever reason even if I pick the right one, have some kind of issue along the way and find out after all that time, the whole thing is shot, and then hope the next one I pick is going to be OK too.

Anyway, that's just some of my reasons behind that and so far seems to work with the about 30-40 movies I've done which among these have had a surprising range of starting frame rates...some are variables, some are constant, some are one number, some are another. Some have even been from the UK and Ireland and originally in PAL, so then there is that to convert over in the encode too.

All in all, just seems like leaving it variable and especially as it works, "and works how ever it does correctly on Handbrake" which I know it does from testing, seems to be just one less thing I could have go wrong on things and have to redo and figure out how to redo right.


Btw, if you want to know more about the things for encodings of Rokus, here are two links to some pages that give some often used and recommend parameters:
http://roku.yt1300.com/index.html
http://roksbox.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70&Itemid=68


Also as there is also Plex to consider, and Windows in my case, so here is a link to their support section where encoding is often discussed:
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/forum/73-windows/

As well their Roku section can be good too:
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/forum/84-roku-streaming-players/


An lastly but actually a great place to review setting discussions is the Roku sites form too:
http://forums.roku.com/viewforum.php?f=28


All of these are places I have been on for the past two months learning about different parts of whats needed and best for encoding on these devices and set up. An at least for all I've seen, its always Handbrake that is talked about and recommended to use, so it in part this is how I've gotten to know how it works and so know most about how to use it.

[jagabo]

All in all from my layman's knowledge, variable should in most cases be better over constant from the point of encoding as it knida gives the encoder the ability to encode by need, more then by restriction. Which means less opportunity for issues.

VFR leads to more playback problems because many players don't support it. They won't seek properly and they will lose audio/video sync. Also, if you ever have need to edit the video many editors don't work properly with VFR. Using VFR is just asking for problems in the future.

Some material requires VFR -- like some animation that's a mix of 24 and 30 fps. But most material is just fine with CFR because it was shot on film at 24 fps. Even when a film based DVD is a mix of 24 fps progressive with pulldown flags and 30i with hard pulldown it can easily be restored to all 24 fps progressive.

[WBFAir]

All in all from my layman's knowledge, variable should in most cases be better over constant from the point of encoding as it knida gives the encoder the ability to encode by need, more then by restriction. Which means less opportunity for issues.

VFR leads to more playback problems because many players don't support it. They won't seek properly and they will lose audio/video sync. Also, if you ever have need to edit the video many editors don't work properly with VFR. Using VFR is just asking for problems in the future.

Thanks for the heads up on that an I'll keep that in mind and I could see how that makes sense. I think I mentioned recently was trying to edit some captured mp4's and found that some of the free softwares were kinda picky about where you could edit frames. So could see if that was varying around, could be problematic.

For me though and again, is things that pertain to my situation, I doubt I will ever be editing any of the encodes I do.

Basically my whole goal was to take a whole bunch of media I have of all kinds, an put them in one place so I could watch them on the TVs.

The Rokus have been great for this over say, all kinds of media players like having a Blu-Ray, or vhs or some SD cards or stuff on the PC or something that all means disks all over the place and being in one single player or another. The Rokus are pretty cheap and work really well and not only for my media, but for what they actually are mainly for which is give me huge access to so much streaming things its nuts. An its getting more an more every day as the streaming style grows

Honestly for it I held off for quite some time as I normally do with new things till I was sure it was going to stick around so I've only had them for about two months now but its changed my viewing life so much that I never watch cable anymore and even cut the cord two weeks ago and am going to be saving $100.00 a month.

So they do all that an then like I have been taking about here, I've been able too and for very little money say as apposed to a media PC or NAS, put all the forms of my videos and pictures and music from all these different things and places, all in one place and with unbelievable easy access and across all my systems.

Anyway, don't mean to ramble on, but guess I'm just saying that I doubt any of what I'm doing will be a lot of editing with my stuff, or even playing it on other stuff, but just watching it an just wanting to be sure it will work on all the players.

I have thought about trying some more in CFR though, I have no issues against it...its just I still am in the process of all the getting of stuff on the system so I just want to stick with what I know works for now and is simplest and quickest for me to figure out. An then after maybe I can then play with other ideas when I have more time.

Btw, I watched that larger vid that was done with the 9 setting in the slider and it all played just perfect. Didn't see any of the combing issues you warned about so that was good.

Again, the quality was a bit lacking as the original footage was taken with a digital camera & 10 years ago, so is kinda why with this one in particular I was looking to do all I could to keep all I could.

Kinda checked it against the 12 slider setting one, and maybe was just mental, but the 9 did seem just a little more crisper on some of the edges and stuff like that. I think overall its been pretty amazing for lots of older stuff in SD I see these days in now that I see what HD and 1080p and stuff like that is, I look back at that older stuff and am really surprised I didn't see how low quality it was. All seemed great then, but now...all of it seems kinda bad.

Anyway, have a few more clips from the DVD to do today so will get to those next.

[jagabo]

Basically my whole goal was to take a whole bunch of media I have of all kinds, an put them in one place so I could watch them on the TVs.

The Rokus have been great for this

Rokus are among the worst media players. I use a Western Digital WDTV Live. It supports a much wider variety of containers and codecs. Even my LG BD670 Blu-ray player (playing files via network shares) is better. I don't uses discs anymore either. I have thousands of videos on my NAS. I rarely have to convert any video I get.

Regarding CFR vs VFR: I've never seen a player that works with VFR but not CFR. I often see players that support CFR but not VFR.

[WBFAir]

Seems to be OK for what I've used it for.

Honestly I looked around and the decision of which unit to pick was not a easy one, I don't mean to sound like a commercial or tell anyone what to buy by saying what I said about the Roku's...more or less meant all that about streaming in general.

Honestly, all in all I didn't even know about Plex and the media capabilities I am using right now when I shopped for one of these devices.

I mean I saw some mention of the idea, but figured I really only be able to understand it more once I got it.

So did look around and again, it wasn't easy as it seemed like this one had one advantage that the other didn't, then this other one had that thing the first one didn't, and so on like that.

I guess what sold me on the Roku's was it seemed like at the time they had the most channels I could have wanted, with Amazon Prime being a big one. Over all it seemed like Netflix and Amazon where the two big players in providers and I actually had one thing I wanted to be sure I could stream that only Amazon had.

I think if I recall some of the WD players at the time played Amazon, but the Rokus had it over all of them. Then I guess second was all the different models Rokus had and if you read all my systems descriptions, I have a range of connection needs and situations. I think for the WD's they really don't have as wide a range for that.

Guess third was it seemed like there was a big community of people making channels for it...don't know how many channels you can get on the WD's, but I think Rokus at the moment have like over 600 (?), and with more made everyday. Sure a lot of them are kinda junky, but with 600+ there are some pretty good ones about just the stuff I like. An then there are the private channels an other things. For instance, one big reason I was able to cut the cable was a channel called Aereo which for only $8.00 a month I get most regular OTA TV. It's not HD but is there for emergencies mostly. But it does even have though a 20hr DVR cloud. Then there is Playon too which gave me even more and with a NFL rewind channel so I could watch all the games on all my TV's.

Trust me as a whole for anything WD I'm a big fan. Have only used their drives for that 15 some odd years of building PC's and have never had a single issues till just recently and even for that, WD took care of me big time. So not just only great for equipment either. But when it came to the streamers, I just looked at the stuff I mentioned above and WD just didn't have as much to offer for what I was looking for as the Roku's.

As well I looked at the NAS stuff and it just seemed to pricey overall (pricey for me now) all for what you got, seemed most good systems started around $500.00 range and that was only for say 1 or 2 TB. I liked the idea of swappable drives though and could go on with many other pluses an minuses I saw, but just seemed like overall in the end was just that I could get more for spending less going some other route.

I guess in the end its all about looking at what your needs are and what works best for you, and making that choice. As can tell by some of the stuff I have described on this thread, its not always so easy to see what that is for someone else in just some quick post. But hopefully for yourself you know what is needed and works best for you and thus are happy with your choices just as much as the same for the other.

[jagabo]

Seems to be OK for what I've used it for.

Except you have to convert so many videos to make them playable.

I think Rokus at the moment have like over 600 (streaming channels)

The only one that's really important to me currently is Netflix. I may use Amazon Prime some day. I can get Hulu (not plus) via Playon (got a lifetime license early on). My old WDTV Live doesn't support Netflix but the TV it's attached to does (along with Amazon Prime and a bunch of other channels I never view). The main TV in the living room runs off an HTPC with Windows Media Center (to use a SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime for digital cable TV access -- no more cable PVR rental/service fees) so it has Netflix -- and anything else that can stream to Windows.

The one missing feature on the bedroom TV (with built in Netflix and the WDTV Live) is the ability to act as a Windows Media Center Extender. Then it could display live and recorded encrypted digital cable channels. I have to use its analog cable and clear QAM tuners so it has a limited number of channels.

As well I looked at the NAS stuff and it just seemed to pricey overall

I got a 2-bay Zyxel NAS for about $80.

http://www.amazon.com/ZyXEL-NSA320-Network-Attached-Storage/dp/B004UBU3SY/

Added two 3 TB drives for $130 each (before that I used to use an old PC). Yeah, it has a plastic case an an anemic CPU but it's sufficient for my purposes. It only consumes 10 to 20 watts so I don't mind having it on 24/7. All my portable apps are stored there too - so all the computers in the house can access them.

[WBFAir]

Seems to be OK for what I've used it for.

Except you have to convert so many videos to make them playable.

Actually I was thinking about this though, if you aren't converting things, then I assume you are putting them on just pure copy...but doesn't that take up some big space?

I know for me being that I had bought stuff that I could now use it on, that I was also going to be going bigger now with the changing over with as much as I could to Blu-Ray. An in with getting some of those, I see how big those files are now. Some of those disks can be like 30-50g's

An so just a guess on my part, but seeing as one of the big parts of conversion is to reduce the size an in a way that you aren't really loosing much in this reduction at least on any noticeable level...doesn't that kinda then mean the space you are taking up with raw files is kinda not a best use of your storage dollar?

I mean at the cost per storage its pretty cheap I admit, and even I was shocked when I started filling things up how little it too. But even now with the conversions I have about 500g used, but I could only imagine what the would be if it was all raw.

All in all the conversions haven't been to big of deal, took a little time to learned what worked, but now that I do, its all just set things up an walk away.

Again, over all it sounds like for what you wanted and are doing, the choices you made are the best ones, for me too as I was kinda looking to get more uses across what I was looking to do, and while it might have been bigger for one or two things for me in something similar to your setup, for the cost per stuff to get, just seemed like I could do more with the things I did.

Again, it's all about what you want.

[

I think Rokus at the moment have like over 600 (streaming channels)

The only one that's really important to me currently is Netflix. I may use Amazon Prime some day. I can get Hulu (not plus) via Playon (got a lifetime license early on). My old WDTV Live doesn't support Netflix but the TV it's attached to does (along with Amazon Prime and a bunch of other channels I never view). The main TV in the living room runs off an HTPC with Windows Media Center (to use a SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime for digital cable TV access -- no more cable PVR rental/service fees) so it has Netflix -- and anything else that can stream to Windows.

The one missing feature on the bedroom TV (with built in Netflix and the WDTV Live) is the ability to act as a Windows Media Center Extender. Then it could display live and recorded encrypted digital cable channels. I have to use its analog cable and clear QAM tuners so it has a limited number of channels.

Sounds like you have just the things you need too. An not at all to be argumentative, but as mentioned, I just saw all the channels the Rokus had...and seemed to be getting more of all the time, and just thought about that. I really don't know all the science behind it, but they seem to I guess have some kind of open SDK like thing and its about as easy a cake to make a channel for one of these. Just about every day I go to the channel store and there is a new one there.

As well I looked at the NAS stuff and it just seemed to pricey overall

I got a 2-bay Zyxel NAS for about $80. Added two 3 TB drives for $130 each (before that I used to use an old PC). Yeah, it has a plastic case an an anemic CPU but it's sufficient for my purposes. It only consumes 10 to 20 watts so I don't mind having it on 24/7. All my portable apps are stored there too - so all the computers in the house can access them.

Wow that is cheap, but think in there you mentioned some of the things I looked at that even aside from the costs I was not too keen on which was aside from the storage part, the fixed hardware and software.

Most often I try at least to buy things that are not going to be outdated if I can. Is one of my pet peeves, but this whole thing of technology changing, or stuff not being powerful enough in just a few years means you have to replace every single thing you have.

Seems almost timed that just about when I get my CC paid off, I have to replace everything again. So if its hardware I try to find as best as or upper middle ground to start with so it will last, (either that or so cheap is a complete throw away to be replaced with the same) that is as well as something I can use with as many things and ways as I can so as to get a good value. An guess software too. An so it just seemed more applicable across various things hardware wise to go with a LT and USB drive. As well as mentioned, is all selfcontained, so no need to run the main PC to see it as it has its own screen, or to use it as has keyboard and pad. As well has Wifi and tons of other hardware possibilities including some upgrade.

Then just asking, but don't all NAS devices essentially and for lack of a better word, run on their own specific OS's, and so if something has to work with that, is has to be made to? An for what ever that is too, it's going to pretty simple in what it can do as its not like those OS's are like a PC OS's, but just made for the specific purpose the NAS has?

I know for Plex for instance, they seem to have several version for several NAS's... and I don't think that NAS is one of them, so if that is true, then you can't use it?

Anyway, again, is all about what works best for you and for sure each person is going to have their own specific needs, wants and uses for things...and even more so per those, what of that will work best.

[jagabo]

Most NAS run a customized version of Linux. All I use mine for is its SMB shares -- ie Windows shares. When I buy a media player I make sure it can play video files from Windows shares. Before I started using the NAS seriously I verified that I can take the drives out and access the files via a Linux or Windows computer (with a Linux file system driver).

If I needed to run Plex or some other DLNA server I could run it on one of the Windows computers. The DLNA server could access files on the NAS via SMB if necessary.