Looking to buy- Bestbuy, Futureshop.. desktop eg. Gateway, Hp. Need input.

[gll99]

You are absolutely correct. Dell and Gateway, and now it appears Acer, have been frustratingly uncustomizable, even for run-of-the-mill desktop PCs. I've had more luck with HP in that respect, at least in the past. Carefully check out their current specs to make sure they haven't recently gone over to the dark side.

If not, it may still be a good deal for what you said you were originally looking for.

If so, roll your own.

When usually_quiet found and posted the mb specs for the Hp Pavilion 500-96 from their own site my respect went way up for that company. I haven't yet looked to see if they do that with all their systems but that's the kind of openness we should expect. From the look of the pic on the mb it looks like a standard 24 pin connector. As long as they haven't done anything peculiar to the wiring of the psu and mb it looks pretty good. The particular unit that was on sale may not exactly meet my needs so I may have to wait for another sale but at least I now know there may be another option besides a build which I am trying to avoid.

So unless someone posts a contrary view (as it appears current HP systems use standard parts) it looks like I'm down to HP or build. It will come down to cost and willingness (or lack of) to put in the effort to chase down local parts (I don't order online).

[budz]

Here's a setup from Newegg Canada:

CM Elite 430 case
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227

WD Blue 1tb Hard drive
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339

Gigabyte socket 1155 Motherboard
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128584

Intel Core i5-3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2ghz, socket 1155 77watt Quad Core CPU with Intel Graphics 2500
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115234

GSkill DDR3 1600 8gb Ram (2x4GB)
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

Corsair 430 watt modular PSU
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139049

Cooler Master Hyper EVO 212 cpu cooler
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

Microsoft Windows 8 OEM 64bit full version
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

This total cost is $642.92 without shipping cost.

This maybe your better buy than a HP. I've recommended HP over any other brands. I'm not sure how much is your budget. Keep us posted on what you will decide on.

[usually_quiet]

When usually_quiet found and posted the mb specs for the Hp Pavilion 500-96 from their own site my respect went way up for that company. I haven't yet looked to see if they do that with all their systems but that's the kind of openness we should expect. From the look of the pic on the mb it looks like a standard 24 pin connector. As long as they haven't done anything peculiar to the wiring of the psu and mb it looks pretty good. The particular unit that was on sale may not exactly meet my needs so I may have to wait for another sale but at least I now know there may be another option besides a build which I am trying to avoid.

So unless someone posts a contrary view (as it appears current HP systems use standard parts) it looks like I'm down to HP or build. It will come down to cost and willingness (or lack of) to put in the effort to chase down local parts (I don't order online).

I agree, the HP motherboard looked pretty standard, although I wish I could get a good look at the front panel connections on the board to make sure they are standard too. I have an old Dell from 2001 that used a proprietary connector for all the stuff on the front panel, so now that is something I would look at in the event I might want to replace the motherboard and CPU one day and keep using the case.

[ranchhand]

gll99 said:

The logic board power plug receptacle only has 12 pins! But ATX power supplies *ALL* *REQUIRE* 20 or 24 pin plugins!
NO ONE MAKES A POWER SUPPLY THAT CAN FUNCTION WITH THIS MACHINE BECAUSE OF THE PROPRIETARY POWER RECEPTACLE ON THE LOGIC BOARD!!

Man, that really makes me see red. I am very disappointed in Acer for pulling a snake-oil salesman stunt like that on the consumer public. They go from top to under the last rung of the ditch ladder in my estimation. I am going to post this on the forum I mod on immediately and all others I belong to.
Thanks for the headsup, gl99!

[gll99]

gll99 said:

The logic board power plug receptacle only has 12 pins! But ATX power supplies *ALL* *REQUIRE* 20 or 24 pin plugins!
NO ONE MAKES A POWER SUPPLY THAT CAN FUNCTION WITH THIS MACHINE BECAUSE OF THE PROPRIETARY POWER RECEPTACLE ON THE LOGIC BOARD!!

Man, that really makes me see red. I am very disappointed in Acer for pulling a snake-oil salesman stunt like that on the consumer public. They go from top to under the last rung of the ditch ladder in my estimation. I am going to post this on the forum I mod on immediately and all others I belong to.
Thanks for the headsup, gl99!

I hope you don't misunderstand this..... If you do re-post anything then please quote the original thread I linked to. I didn't say it personally since I've never opened an Acer desktop to see the inside I'm just reporting what was posted. Remember that I can't confirm this 1st hand. I'm usually cautious when only 1 poster says something but it did come from 2 different purchasers of that model so it does lend more credibility to their comments. At the very least their observations have stopped me from even considering buying an Acer desktop at this time. Everyone has to do their own research and make up their own mind. I'd certainly like to hear more than 2 people before I recommend closing the door on any company. From my personal research I prefer what I see on the HP site as to how they show the details of their desktops. That won't necessarily make me a purchaser but I'm impressed by how easy it is to research the models on their site.

[ranchhand]

If you do re-post anything then please quote the original thread I linked to

I always do, you are in the clear.
It's pretty hard for me not to believe the irate posters on Amazon when two out of three report the same thing. I guess I take this personally because I have recommended Acer for years to dozens of the people I help with their units and have only had one come in with problems. I bought a high-end Acer 17" laptop for my son 3 years ago, and the only thing that went bad was the input AC power cord jack. Getting at the jack was a piece of cake, and I just re-soldered the connecter back on and he was back in business. 20 minutes. An HP or Dell would have been much more complicated if not impossible.
Now this.

[Thasis]

Well I bought the ACER AT3-100-EF20 $439 and almost $500 after tax basically on specs alone.
Have not taken time to clean out all the preloaded crap so it seems pretty slow however I do have the case open if you would like me to snap a pic of something specific just let me know.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/acer-acer-at3-series-desktop-computer-amd-a10-5...rchPageIndex=2

I have 90 days to make up my mind? Oops glad i double checked apparently only 14 days from Future Shop

[sanlyn]

My 3 video processing PC's are home-built. Now working on #5 (one of the older ones was rebuilt from AMD to Intel). I can't say I saved any money on any of them, but I did get machines that are highly customizable -- and where would I get a PC at BestBuy that has 4 hard drives and two burners, one BD and one DVD ?? And floppy drivea on two of these PC's really esoteric drive maintenance work like the old DriveImage backups.

I picked up everything on sale from newegg. tigedirect, and a local MicroCenter. I find it difficult to buy a $30 USB extension cable from BestBuy when I can get them from newegg for less than 4 bucks, and occasional antivirus sales there for $20.

[gll99]

Well I bought the ACER AT3-100-EF20 $439 and almost $500 after tax basically on specs alone.
Have not taken time to clean out all the preloaded crap so it seems pretty slow however I do have the case open if you would like me to snap a pic of something specific just let me know.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/acer-acer-at3-series-desktop-computer-amd-a10-5...rchPageIndex=2

I have 90 days to make up my mind? Oops glad i double checked apparently only 14 days from Future Shop

That's pretty decent for the price. To me it looks better than the Gatway DX4380 even though it seems from what was posted earlier they are both owned by Acer. It probably would have been my choice too but my concern with Acer is not knowing if they use standard parts such as the MB and PSU. As I posted earlier a couple of people seemed rather upset finding the PSU had a weird power connector. Although I find it a bit odd they would actually use a 12 pin vs a 20 or 24 pin atx style connector. It would be helpful if you could clear that up.

I hesitated so missed all of this weeks lower end specials. I haven't seen any of the new flyers yet. It looks like the kid who delivers to our house quit because we usually get them on Wednesday. I almost relented and bought a HP H8-1559 at BB on sale for $600 (sale ended now 5-9-2013) but the cpu an FX-8350 (although pretty competitive in multi-core / thread mode) is considered a bit of an energy hog compared to the newer Intel and AMD A10 types. I also didn't like that Acer has no detailed specs on their site for their computers.

As things stand for me it's probably build my own which I was trying to avoid or buy an HP if the right model becomes available for the right price.

In case I decide to commit to a build, I've started sourcing parts by checking a few local supplier's online sites and already it's a case of 1 store has the MB but not at the best price and another has the best price on the case. One has the Asus MB I want in stock but the ram is in short supply. I have to see if I can buy OEM Win8 without buying a system. One place says "only with a system or qualified hardware while another doesn't specify anything so I have to call. One store is 12-15 kms away another is 25-30 kms and another about 40-50 kms. That's the pain I really didn't want to face in order to get the best price on my parts but I won't pay full retail if I don't have to since it would defeat the incentive of building my own. Even then I'll have to use my own HDD and DVD / BD drives to keep the price reasonable while also adding a decent cpu. If I was going with a I5-3330 or less then I might as well just buy the canned system because I can't build it much cheaper than $400.

[Thasis]

If it helps any here are pic's of MB and PSU on the ACER

[johns0]

Stock fan and cheap power supply,no big deal.

[gll99]

If it helps any here are pic's of MB and PSU on the ACER

It helps a lot.

The 300w psu is to be expected in systems with on-board / on-chip graphics and it looks like a standard one to me. 300 watts is similar with most other manufacturer I've checked unless they have a separate video card. The motherboard power connector looks like a normal 24 pin type which is great news so you could change the psu with a generic one if and when you ever want to upgrade to a faster video card or if it fails which was more my concern. The open ram slot means you have an easy way to add another 4gb at anytime. Not a barn burner but really quite good for the price.

PSU: http://www.fspgroupusa.com/fsp30060tha/p/565.html

There is a specs page here:
http://www.findlaptopdriver.com/specs-aahd3-vc-acer/

You probably already know this from your mb manual and it's good news to my eyes that the 6 sata ports are version III meaning 6Gb/s.

I might look for something a bit different in an Intel model but it looks like I'll have to put Acer back in play if I don't build.

Thanks for the pics.

[Thasis]

Glad it helped.

My guy that is setting up the new computer seems to prefer the HP 500-096

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c03826060&lang=...4XXIB7RX3CbDvQ

Taking the xtra HD space you need out of the mix which of the two (HP vs Acer) would you go for now

[gll99]

Glad it helped.

My guy that is setting up the new computer seems to prefer the HP 500-096

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c03826060&lang=...4XXIB7RX3CbDvQ

Taking the xtra HD space you need out of the mix which of the two (HP vs Acer) would you go for now

Given only 1 choice I prefer the HP Intel. I could always find a hole somewhere in the case to fit an hdd, and if I could only have 1 burner then I'd swap the DVD for a BD. Truthfully though I'd probably spend a bit more to overcome the limitations but that's me. Like I said HP seems pretty open about what is under the hood so they got my attention.


That said, after rereading the comments again and listening to my wife who commented that I didn't seem all that enthused with the pre-builts, I decided today to go the build route. I'll be cutting corners in some spots but adding in others. I'm only buying on sale and no special orders, everything cash so it will take a bit of time to complete.

Today I bought an Asus Matx B85M-G motherboard.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/B85MG/#specifications

I cut a corner here but it's got everything I need at $83.99. I could have saved a few bucks or spent a few bucks more but I'm satisfied with this one. Before someone says it, I know it's not an overclocking board but I don't need that. I'm not a gamer.

I also picked up a DVD of Win8 pro 64 bits OEM. I have to read up on the licensing online at MS before I open it but off the top it seems to be saying that as a personal builder I agree to use it only in a PC I build or in a Virtual machine, or as an additional OS in a separate partition on an existing system but not to upgrade another previous Windows installation. Which is fine by me. The seller said this version lets me go back to Win7 if I don't like 8. All I have to do is contact MS for a #. I'm not very likely to do that though. This is where I decided to spend a few dollars more than the standard Win8 version.

I had a case and psu selected but the store had only 1 case showing in stock but couldn't find it.

It may take a while to source all my parts and to get down to building since I really hadn't planned on this right now. I will probably start a new thread soon to discuss the build or for any related questions and issues.

[ranchhand]

At least Asus is giving you 4 USB3 ports; for the life of me I can't figure out why these mobo manufacturers still are installing USB2 ports on their boards. Asus is giving you 8 USB2 and 4 USB3.

[nic2k4]

In case I decide to commit to a build, I've started sourcing parts by checking a few local supplier's online sites and already it's a case of 1 store has the MB but not at the best price and another has the best price on the case.

Canada Computers will price match.

[usually_quiet]

At least Asus is giving you 4 USB3 ports; for the life of me I can't figure out why these mobo manufacturers still are installing USB2 ports on their boards. Asus is giving you 8 USB2 and 4 USB3.

The chipsets used for less expensive motherboards are very limited as to the number of USB 3.0 ports they can provide. To have enough USB connections some must be USB 2.0. Also, although the spec says USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0, according to some reviews I have read, this does not turn out to be true in practice for every USB 2.0 device.

[Thasis]

Would have to agree that with experience, time, and funds a custom build is certainly the way to go.

For me, I flip-flopped and dumped the Acer and bought the HP 500-096 set-up. Have to say this Win 8 OS is certainly a challenge coming from XP but the 8.1 version should be out in October/November and will hopefully make it a little easier to navigate?
Would like to thank-you for your input as it helped me narrow things down in my final decision.

Cheers

[usually_quiet]

Have to say this Win 8 OS is certainly a challenge coming from XP but the 8.1 version should be out in October/November and will hopefully make it a little easier to navigate?

The differences between Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are minor with respect to navigation. Windows 8.1 includes a setting that allows booting into the desktop instead of the Start Screen, and places a Windows icon on the task bar that returns users to the Start Screen when clicked. Those are helpful changes, but you will still need to install Classic Shell, Start8, or StartIsBack to have a Start Menu and Start Button available on the desktop. Classic Shell includes a XP-style menu. I don't remember what the others have.

[gll99]

In case I decide to commit to a build, I've started sourcing parts by checking a few local supplier's online sites and already it's a case of 1 store has the MB but not at the best price and another has the best price on the case.

Canada Computers will price match.

It only works if they have the exact same models and you still have to check the competitors and call to make sure they have it in local stock or they won't match. If the competitor is out of town or has to bring it in CC adds the shipping costs to the price match. Even then I discovered that they are often low in their own store stock or don't have the item even when their online site says they do at a particular location so you have to call and still sometimes have to chase store to store to get the parts. I've bought more computer related items from them over the last few years than from anyone else but I've also walked away empty handed a few times because I didn't call first.

[fritzi93]

Do they still load crapware on pre-built desktops? (I haven't bought one since 2003 and hope never to have to again). Purging that stuff is a chore. And there's bound to be something about any pre-built that you don't like or is not up to snuff.

Of course actually building your own is easy, it's deciding on/pricing/buying your components that takes most of your time. (As you said in your opening post). Still, your end product should be better, though one can hardly blame you for not wanting to do it.

[usually_quiet]

Do they still load crapware on pre-built desktops? (I haven't bought one since 2003 and hope never to have to again). Purging that stuff is a chore. And there's bound to be something about any pre-built that you don't like or is not up to snuff.

Of course actually building your own is easy, it's deciding on/pricing/buying your components that takes most of your time. (As you said in your opening post). Still, your end product should be better, though one can hardly blame you for not wanting to do it.

I can confirm that pre-built PCs from HP (and probably other big names) still come with some crapware installed, but it didn't seem like a huge amount was on the laptop I set up for my mother.

However, I have also read a few motherboard reviews stating that crapware was included on the reviewer's installation disc, and a custom install was needed to avoid it.