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  1. Member
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    Hi all,

    I'm new to ripping and editing, but I'd like to rip some of my blu-rays, edit them (editting out material I find offensive or slows the pacing of the movie) and burn onto a BD. I'd like to do this lossless in all respects (video, audio) if possible.


    I have a blu-ray burner on my desktop and have a 1TB external harddrive. I may have some burning software, I'll check it out when I get home.


    I'd appreciate any and all help navigating this process so I can learn to do this on my own.


    Thanks.
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  2. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    What you are contemplating is much harder than you probably imagined. Besides being huge files, (30 GB - 40 GB) the H.264 format they use is very difficult to edit, especially if you want frame accurate editing. Lossless means no re-encoding and that's not going to happen if you want to just edit the H.264 video anywhere you want. It was not designed for that.

    But first you need a BD decrypter, I like AnyDVD HD. Then you can find the main movie with a program like BDInfo. Next use the correct .mpls file to extract the main movie as a .M2ts or .ts file with a program like tsMuxeR GUI.

    Then you can try using an editor. I'll let others suggest ones that could work with H.264 files. They can be expensive. Alternately, you can convert the H.264 to a lossless or near lossless format and edit that freely with little restriction. The audio formats on BD videos can also be very difficult to edit. Especially True HD or DTS. You may have to convert those. Then after you have done all your editing, you can convert the file back to a BD compatible format and burn it to a BD. I would only recommend ImgBurn for burning.

    Some of these processes take a lot of CPU power. I use a overclocked six core CPU and it take hours to convert H.264 video.

    I don't want to discourage you, but BDs are very difficult to edit. All I've listed may not be entirely correct or the easiest, as I haven't went through that whole process, though I do use most all the tools listed. Others may be able to give you better suggestions. But if you like a challenge, go ahead. But it can be a fairly steep learning curve.

    And welcome to our forums.
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    Good luck if some of your movies are encoded with VC-1. I'm not sure there are good choices for editing video using that codec. About 19% of all blu ray released so far use VC-1.
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    "Lossless" means lossless, usually meaning decoded AVI losslessly compressed with something like Lagarith or Huffyuv. There are smart-rendering h264 editors that will work with h264 decrypted video. The better ones are not free, but not that expensive. No commercial or free h264 editors will work with encypted BluRay VC-1.
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    Thank you for the detailed responses and warm welcome.

    This is definitely going to be more complicated than I previously hoped, but movies are my hobby and I'm willing to patiently wade through this.


    I may have used the term "losseless" incorrectly; I simply meant that I'd like to rip, edit and burn my movies without losing video or audio quality.


    Redwudz mentioned converting h264 to a lossless or near lossless format. Is that the best way to go, or should I try to simply edit the h264 files?


    I've read that some people simply use makemkv then use makemergui to edit. Is this an option?


    Thanks again for your help. I'm willing to go through this slowly to get it right.
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    MakeMkv will decrypt and rip your blu ray movie to the hard drive and put it into one single mkv file. But it won't change the codecs used in the original movie, nor lose any picture quality while doing this.

    That is one first step you could take. The alternative would be to rip the entire thing to the hard drive with AnyDVD HD, but you will run into some blu ray movies where the main movie is split into many different m2ts files (seamless branching). For those you'd need to choose the right playlist and merge the files. This can be done with ClownBD.

    Converting to a lossless format like Lagarith or HuffyUV and putting it into an avi file can be done with something like Virtualdub. AviDemux can also do this type of conversion over to HuffyUV. The file sizes will be enormous. And you may run into issues converting the audio to .wav.

    There are a few editors that might work on the movies without this conversion, but the DTS audio will be a roadblock, as will VC-1 video. If you don't mind working with AC3 instead of the original high def audio, you could use VideoRedo H264 for anything using mpeg2 or H264 in the movie. VideoRedo isn't free, but there is a fully functional trial available.
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    Ok, I'm a little confused, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like:

    1. I can rip the blu-ray rhough Makemkv and not lose quality in video or audio; then
    2. I can conver the the MKV file through Lagarith or HuffyUV into AVI format (this is the part I'm most confused about); then
    3. Edit the AVI and reverse engineer the file back to H.264 (AVI--->HuffyUV----->MKV----->H.264) and then burn using IMGburn to a Blu-ray disc without losing video or audio quality?




    I keep bringing up the audio and video quality because I plan on editing a substantial portion of my blu-ray library and want it to look good when and if I build a home theater (a project of mine which currently wherein I'm contemplating a 130 inch screen).


    Thank you again for your help.
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  8. Your own terms of keeping it "lossless in all respects" is the sticking point.
    If you can accept the loss of hd audio, say downgrade to ac3, which still has excellent quality and all you want to do is simple editing, for instance cut out sections and rejoin what's left then you can bypass using the uncompressed route.
    Basic editors, AFAIK, can't deal with hd audio especially in regards to frame accurate editing.

    So you could downgraded audio to ac3 then use a basic editor, for instance VideoRedo to cut out sections out of the video/audio.ther basic editors, look for the ones that can deal with high def video here:
    https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/video-editors-basic
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    Taking encoded video into lossless format implies that one would want to do more than simple "cut and join" -- such as denoising, color correction, repairing image defects, etc. But a simple edit such as you described wouldn't require industrial strength measures. There are cut and join editors around, but most of them have limitations. You wouldn't want to use something that re-encodes your entire video: re-encoding is a lossy process somewhat similar to recompressing lossy graphics like JPEG. Each re-encode loses more data.

    There are smarter editors that allow you to cut a section of video and build a new copy without re-encoding. Some of these editors are smarter than others. Most of them will cut only on GOP (Group of Pictures) segments, meaning that the location you decide to cut might be a second or two off from what you specified. There are smarter editors that use smart-rendering and are frame specific; they cut exactly where you tell them to, then rebuild (re-encode) only the affected picture group. They will output a new movie that you must re-author (chapters, menus, etc.) into a format designed for burning to disc as standard DVD/BD. Most of these aren't free, notably because they pay license fees to comply with official video and audio codecs/formats. An example of a budget but competent smart rendering editor that accepts several formats is TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4. There are others.

    Video encoding such as DVD, BluRay, AVCHD, etc., isn't the same thing as sending a file through WinZIP or RAR. It's a completely different process. Video isn't encoded as a continuous stream of full-scale images. Rather, the video is divided into many segments or Groups of Pictures (GOP). Each group has one or more Index or key frames that are full-scale images; the other pictures in the group contain only the data that has changed since the last key frame. Unlike a lossless decoded AVI compressed with Lagarith or Huffyuv (which would be a fully decoded, continuous full-image version of the video, which is why such AVI's are so large), encoded video can't just be "cut" and "joined" anywhere. Editors that don't smart-render will cut only on GOP segments; smart renderers cut anywhere, then build a new GOP to span the cut or join.
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    Yes, I basically want to start out with just "cut and join" editing. The reason I was so emphatic on not losing video/audio quality was because I want watch my edits on a large home theater screen and audio system without losing quality from the original blu-ray.

    AC3 doesn't sound like it'd be a huge downgrade.


    I found a guide that serves as a walkthrough for ripping and editing blu-rays. It alleges that it's a "lossless" process; but I have no idea.


    Does this look like a good option for my purposes? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163649


    I'd appreciate your input. Thank you again.
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    The process you linked to will decode the input video to AVI and re-encode the whole thing.
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    Ok, definitely felt like Homer Simpson there.

    If I tried editing through TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 would by editing the movie in MKV format or H264 format? I'm assuming audio would have to AC3?

    By the way, how much video quality would I be losing by attempting the method I posted above?
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    Originally Posted by Morgolking View Post
    Ok, definitely felt like Homer Simpson there.

    If I tried editing through TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 would by editing the movie in MKV format or H264 format? I'm assuming audio would have to AC3?

    By the way, how much video quality would I be losing by attempting the method I posted above?
    From noticeable to plenty, depending on how much you know about what you're doing. The procedure you linked to decodes your BluRay into a lossless AVI (which will be a mighty big file, maybe 1 to 2 GB depending on movie length, or smaller if losslessly compressed with Lagarith). Of course, if you're going to get into complex editing, corrections, adding lots of audio tracks, superimposing titles, etc., etc., this procedure from encoded to lossless really would be the recommended way of doing it. You could then use it in NLE editors to dress it up however you wanted without harming anything. But the results would have to be re-encoded to BluRay entirely; an inferiror encoding method, or especially some of lesser encoders included in software from Adobe or Pinnacle, etc., would carry a quality hit (at least TMPGenc's latest offerings and some freebies have better encoders).

    TMPGenc isn't the only smart rendering editor for DVD/BD/AVCHD. It does have an improved standard encoder (x264) instead of its former MainConcept internally, and has a few features such as dissolves or other transitions, some simple audio features -- nothing to cause a major re-encode.

    If you have to get into the fancy work, working with lossless would be best. True, a lot of people will advise that re-encoding is OK if you observe certain parameters. True, many would say they see very little difference. It's also true that many people are blind as bats, or will watch whatever happens to be in front of their face, and/or don't know what the hell they're talking about. If you really don't know that much about what you're doing, don't have a lot of time or money to spare, or just want to get your feet wet without getting too complicated, and you still want decent results, I'd go for something like TMPGEnc or another decent smart-renderer with quality x264 internals. Stay away from the BestBuy and Walmart all-in-one/silver-bullet packages. They're crap.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 30th Aug 2013 at 20:49.
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  14. Originally Posted by Morgolking View Post
    Ok, definitely felt like Homer Simpson there.

    If I tried editing through TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 would by editing the movie in MKV format or H264 format? I'm assuming audio would have to AC3?

    By the way, how much video quality would I be losing by attempting the method I posted above?
    You should be able to only cut and join with tmpgenc smart renderer and not lose any video quality.
    Though I haven't really tried it myself but have used VideoRedo for OTA high def. mpeg2.

    What you want is a playable wrapper for ...I assume you want to playback from hard drive?
    Many would chose mkv.
    You will be able to wrap the blu-ray output to mky, not changing the video in any way if that is what you desire.
    One easy to use software, BDtoAVCHD, can take a bd rip from the hard drive and output mkv or m2ts (bd file)and also output ac3.
    There are other progs that can work as well, like bdrebuilder or clown bd.
    You will need to set them not to re-encode video.
    Find one you like or try all of them...
    Since I haven't found it necessary to cut and join a bd (movie) file, I am unsure what smart renderer will accept as a wrapper.
    I do know videoredo will work on mpeg2 high def. from ota dvr... not sure if it will work on bd movie files.

    Anyway, try m2ts first and see if smart renderer or videoredo will import and work on it, see if they will output mkv without re-encode.
    They both may accept mkv high def. h264 but I haven't fooled with them to see.
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    Sorry, I haven't been able to digest the last responses yet, but wanted to answer two things real quick before coming back to "study" some more tomorrow.

    Yes, right now I'm only looking to do simple cut and paste edits, and my plan is to later burn these edits onto blu-rays and watch them on 120-130 inch home theater screen.
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    In that case, use smart rendering editors to get started with video processing. You'll also find that separate apps for authoring and burning will give the best results. Most of the free authoring programs have fewer features but work well, while paid apps at budget prices such as TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5 have more features, handle more formats, and can even smart-render if you find you have to make some last-minute edits in your final video. We recommend ImgBurn for burning and Verbatim's "AZO" line of discs for crisis-free burning.
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    Ok, so let me run my proposed list of software by you.

    1. For ripping: makemkv
    2. For editing: TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 (I only need to cut and paste, or sometimes make the scene go completely black effectively giving me audio with no corresponding video)
    3. For burning: ImgBurn (onto Verbatim AZO disc. Am I searching for the right disc? I could only find imported Japanese discs for the AZO line: http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Blu-ray-Recordable-Bluray-Spindle/dp/B0056DUXXA)
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  18. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I would stay away from LTH (Low to High) disks. A lot of us have problems with them. I've burned a couple of hundred Verbatim BD-Rs without a single failure. I only use ImgBurn for burning. I use this media:
    https://www.rima.com/prod/97457.html

    You can also find it at these dealers:
    http://www.supermediastore.com/
    http://www.meritline.com/
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    Some people like the LTH Verbatim discs, but they are not universally accepted in all blu ray players or burners. I recommend the regular discs which use a metallic recording layer (actually two layers, CU and SI that get fused by the laser). http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-97457-Blu-ray-Recordable-25-Disc/dp/B00471HK0Q/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_6

    or FTI Falcon, in this case sold under the SmartBlu brand:
    http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-silver-lacquer-print-25pk-cakeb...5-p-27685.html

    Panasonic make some of the best blank blu ray, but seem to be hard to get in the US.

    AZO is a type of dye, and is used in the Verbatim dvds as well as their LTH blu ray discs. The dvds are a well established, reliable media. The LTH blu ray are more controversial.
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    Ok, great. Any other suggestions on my list? Do I need anything beyond what I've listed? Sanlyn, are there any free editors that you would recommend me trying to see if I'm happy with cutting by way of GOP? I'm assuming TMPGEnc is what I'll use if I decide I need my cuts to be more precise. Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the help.


    Originally Posted by Morgolking View Post
    Ok, so let me run my proposed list of software by you.

    1. For ripping: makemkv
    2. For editing: TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 (I only need to cut and paste, or sometimes make the scene go completely black effectively giving me audio with no corresponding video)
    3. For burning: ImgBurn (onto Verbatim AZO disc. Am I searching for the right disc? I could only find imported Japanese discs for the AZO line: http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Blu-ray-Recordable-Bluray-Spindle/dp/B0056DUXXA)
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    Your list should get decent results. Remember that those results will have to be re-authored for standard disc burning and playback. TMPGenc also has excellent authoring software, but there are some free ones around (can't be specific, because I've never used the freebies). Free authoring programs are OK but tend to be short on features.

    Blank discs: unfortunately there aren't many quality brands around, especially at shoestring prices. The Verbatim AZO line is the only one usually recommended around here because we know they're OK.
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  22. I am new to this thread. I want to do a similar thing (rip BD, cut and join editing). The difference for me is that I then want to encode to an MP4 file (or whatever gives highest resolution) as opposed to burn it to a blu ray disc. I currently do this with DVDs using AnyDVD to rip and DVDrRemake to edit and export to new DVD files. I then encode with Handbrake (High profile tweaked to Slow and 19.5).

    Would I just replace AnyDVD with MakeMKV for ripping and DVDRemake with TMPGEnc Smart Renderer v4 and then still use Handbrake to encode? I don't want any menus; only the movie.


    I use a Media Center PC to present out to a front projector unit and want to plan now for using a 4K projector in a few years when they become affordable. They are supposed to do a very good job of upscaling from existing content and I want to make current movies I edit the best they can be within a computer-based file.
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