Using HdBrStreamExtractor v0.8 what AUDiO option keeps it untouched?

[botdvd]

Thank You for taking the time to read my post. I know MAKE MKV is a one button softwear, and works with BD. I use it for all my original DVD`s, but for BD i will use HdBrStreamExtractor v0.8

I tried the latest version of Clown BD but it won`t work on my W8 Desktop. I wanna keep everything untouched, DEMUX the BD to one video file, one audio file and one subtitle file. Then merge it to one MKV file keeping everything original, i know the size will be high, but waiting several hours to shrink the mkv a few GB is not worth it. I have a enough space on my HDD.

Then to my question.

A guide say if the audio is DTS HD MA 5.1 / 7.1 choose the option DTS HD. Is that the same? Will the audio file be untouched?

I tried to other options. RAW and the file was several GB, but when i opened it in mkvmerge i couldn`t see the audio file. Then i tried WAVE and that file was also several GB and mkvmerge saw it and i muxed it with success. The reason i picked WAVE is that i used Clown BD on another PC and it worked, and when i got the audio untouched it was a WAVE file. Used the same BD with HdBrStreamExtractor v0.8 and picked WAVE in audio option and the demuxed files was the same size in both cases.

So is WAVE the correct option if i want the audio untouched and original no matter what type of audio the BD is using?

For my oldest BD movies the audio is english 5.1 uncompressed (48 kHz/16 bit) or LPCM what option is used for them.

A lot of lines but it all comes down to wich option is the untouched and original sound file. Thank You.

[botdvd]

FLAC is that the option maybe?

[hello_hello]

I'm fairly sure if you select DTS as the output type and the audio is DTS HD, it'll extract just the core from the DST HD stream. If it's DTS HD MA and you select DTSHD it'll extract the audio untouched.

What's the log file say about it? It should list the eac3to command line which was used.

[hello_hello]

So is WAVE the correct option if i want the audio untouched and original no matter what type of audio the BD is using?

No. If you want the original audio, extract it to it's original format.
Wave stores audio in an uncompressed, lossless format. Unlike lossy formats such as MP3 or AC3, it doesn't throw information away, so audio encoded as a wave file will be exactly the same when it's decoded. As wave files contain uncompressed audio they're likely to be quite large, and usually larger than the original.
Even though wave files themselves are lossless, the conversion process from a compressed format to a wave file will technically alter it, although not in a way you can hear. Slightly technically explanation:
Uncompressed audio (such as wave) has a fixed bit depth (8 bit, 16 bit, 24 bit etc). The greater the bitdepth the more accurately the audio can be reproduced (it's kind of like video resolution). 8 bit is probably voice quality, 16 bit is CD quality and 24 bit is audio DVD quality. Compressed formats such as DTS/AC3 don't have a fixed bitdepth, so when the audio is converted from DTS/AC3 to wave, the conversion to a fixed bitdepth will theoretically alter it slightly. It's nothing you'd hear unless you have super-bionic-hearing or use less than 16 bits, but I thought it might be worth explaining. By default I'm pretty sure when converting compressed audio to a wave file 24 bit is used. If you want to convert to a smaller wave file you can use 16 bit instead. Type "-down16" (without the quotes) in the options box next to where you choose the output audio type and the audio will be converted to a 16 bit wave file instead of a 24 bit one.

As I said though, if you want the original audio, choose the original format and you won't need to worry about any of the above.

For my oldest BD movies the audio is english 5.1 uncompressed (48 kHz/16 bit) or LPCM what option is used for them.

LPCM is uncompressed audio. Wave files (mostly) contain LPCM audio. In the context of your question you can consider LPCM and Wave to be the same thing, therefore for LPCM you'd choose WAV. If the output file size is over 4GB (some programs don't like wave files larger than 2GB), try WAV64 instead.
As Wave files contain LPCM audio, it'll be extracted to a wave file without being altered in any way. I think most Bluray LPCM audio is 16 bit (don't quote me on that though) but extracting 16 bit LPCM should give you a 16 bit wave file and 24 bit LPCM should give you a 24 bit wave file.

An alternative to WAV would be to use FLAC. Like wave files, FLAC is lossless so no information is thrown away (although the same bitdepth conversion applies as it does to wave files), but FLAC compresses the audio to reduce the file size. Hardware player support for FLAC audio isn't fantastic though, so the format you use might depend on the player you use. You can convert audio from Wave/LPCM to FLAC and back again without altering it in any way.

[botdvd]

Thank You very much for that informasjon, so correct me if i`m wrong but here is what i got from that.

Source audio DTS-HD MA 5.1 or 7.1 Output DTSHD and the finished file is untouched and original.

Source audio LPCM Output WAVE and the finished file is untouched and original.


tried the softwear on the rock with LPCM audio and the finished WAVE file was over 4GB but muxed perfectly to an mkv with mkvmerge. So as long as mkvmerge handles audio files over 2GB i will just keep it as wave, and stay away from FLAC and WAVE64. Those are both compressed but untouched correct?

I don`t wanna alter anything and like you said quote "As I said though, if you want the original audio, choose the original format and you won't need to worry about any of the above."

Have i choosen the original format with my two options above??

[botdvd]

CORE is that untouched? If the source is DTS-MA 5.1 and output is DTSHD is that then core?

Not sure what CORE means, sorry.

[hello_hello]

The way I understand it standard DTS is a lossy format (like AAC or AC3 etc). DTS HD is lossless, but it works like this for backward compatibility.....

DTS HD contains the same lossy audio as standard DTS. That's referred to as the "core". It also has an additional stream which contains the "difference" between the lossy core and the original lossless audio. Even if a player only understands standard DTS, it can still decode the lossy 5.1ch "core". If it can decode the full DTS HD audio, you get the lossless version. And the extra 2 channels if it's 7.1ch. Something like that......
So yeah I'd assume if you extract the "core" from DTS HD it's untouched, but you only get the lossy part.

So if the audio is standard DTS and you choose DTS HD you'll probably only get an error.
If it's DTS HD and you choose DTS you get just the lossy DTS core.
If it's DTS HD and you choose DTS HD you get the works.

So as long as mkvmerge handles audio files over 2GB i will just keep it as wave, and stay away from FLAC and WAVE64. Those are both compressed but untouched correct?

WAV64 is basically the same as WAVE but it's designed for large file sizes. I think as long as MKVMergeGUI opens the audio, whether it be wave or wav64, it doesn't matter which you use. I think MKVMergeGUI muxes it into the MKV as LPCM audio anyway, so it's not a wave file any more. Don't quote me on that, but as long as it works.
FLAC is lossless like wave, but it's also compressed to reduce the file size.

Have i choosen the original format with my two options above??

Yes.

[botdvd]

Thank You again.

As i only demux and remux BD all audio will be either DTS-HD MA or LPCM, there for i will choose DTSHD or WAVE.

But since you are talking about regular DTS, is that found on BD? If the source is DTS and you choose DTSHD you get an error you say.

I asked a question and you said yes, my two options are correct. So i thank you. Just unsure if there will be BD movies with different audio options then the two i`m asking about. If there where like just DTS then output is DTS. But DD 5.1 is that an option on BD? And if yes then what option is that?

Just crossing all of my list before i start a lenghty process to backup my collection. But as of this moment i have only seen DTS-HD MA and LPCM so i have my answear for them. Thanks again.

[hello_hello]

The way I understand it, it's compulsory for Bluray players to be able to decode standard DTS, but DTS HD is optional. If they don't support DTS HD they'll just use the "core". Therefore DTS HD is also optional. I think if you select DTS HD and the audio is DTS it just won't extract any audio and there'll probably be an error in the log file. I can't even remember if the HdBrStreamExtractor distinguishes between DTS and DTS HD so you know which it is before you extract it. I'd assume it does, but I can't remember.

To be honest I don't know if DTS is more common for Bluray than DTS HD, although I strongly suspect it is. I've not thought about it much myself or paid much attention when extracting the audio as I generally use the AC3 audio or convert DTS to AAC.

DD 5.1 = AC3.
There's also TrueHD which is the Dolby Digital answer to DTS HD. Support for it is optional for Bluray players and I don't think it's all that common, but I'm pretty sure eac3to will extract TrueHD so HdBrStreamExtractor should. It mightn't show up as an option unless there's a TrueHD track found.

HdBrStreamExtractor can also be found under MeGUI's Tools menu. They behave slightly differently even though they're the same program. For example the standalone version will let you select DTS as the output for all audio types. If you do and the audio isn't DTS it'll extract it as as individual wave files (one per channel) then attempt to convert them to DTS with the Surecode DTS encoder. When it can't find the encoder it'll stop with an error. The version under MeGUI's Tools menu doesn't let you select DTS as the output format unless the audio is DTS. It appears it'll only let you select the appropriate format for extracting the audio untouched or the formats it can convert to while it extracts.

[botdvd]

Thanks again.

JVCD BD Audio DOLBY TRUE HD/AC3 when i opened it in HdBrStreamExtractor And had two Choices. Either THD or THD/AC3
Witch of these two options would be the untouched one if you know?

[hello_hello]

To be honest I don't think I've ever ripped a disc with THD audio so I'm not sure.

I think THD is an audio stream on it's own (I'm not sure if it has a "core" like DTS HD) but because it's an optional format for Bluray, any disc with THD audio must also have an AC3 version for players which don't understand THD.

So my best guess would be THD gives you untouched THD audio, while THD/AC3 gives you both. The latter might be extracted as a single audio file.... I'm not sure.... just taking my best guess on that one. Maybe you could try both and report back??

[botdvd]

First DTS-HD MA and DTS-HD are the same correct? Or are they different?

A guide that i will use with HdBrStreamExtractor clearly say that if the source is DTS-HD MA and you want the output as DTS-HD MA you choose the DTSHD option, so i feel we have cleared that one up. (But i must mention that when i did a BD with clown bd and audio as unconverted, to create the same file size and name with HdBrStreamExtractor the option was DTS not DTSHD. But that could be something in clown bd i did wrong.)

I did JVCD with clown bd and HdBrStreamExtractor, first with clown bd unconverted. the file was named THD/AC3 so i did with HdBrStreamExtractor and the output as THD/AC3 and the name + size was the same. So with all that said and done i will belive that the following options will give me the audio untouched and original.

DTS-HD MA - DTSHD
LPCM - WAVE
Dolby True HD/AC3 - THD/AC3

Does that about sound correct for you?

[botdvd]

Should a BD be standard DTS then the output would be DTS. If it`s DTS-HD MA then the output would be DTSHD.

If it`s DTSHD and output as DTS you get the core, maybe that is what happened in clown bd as the files where the same when i chose DTS as output with HdBrStreamExtractor.

Again.

BD DTS - output DTS
BD DTS-HD MA - output DTSHD
BD LPCM - output WAVE
BD Dolby True HD/AC3 - output THD/AC3

Then i have covered them all when it comes to audio i belive.

Thanks.

[hello_hello]

First DTS-HD MA and DTS-HD are the same correct? Or are they different?

I think for the purpose of extraction they're the same, but technically they're different. The way I read this Wikipedia article, DTS-HD High Resolution is the first version, while DTS-HD Master Audio is the second. The MA version can produce lossless audio, although maybe it's not always necessarily lossless. They both seem to work the same way though. The "core" gives you standard DTS while the full version gives you the extra stuff.

A guide that i will use with HdBrStreamExtractor clearly say that if the source is DTS-HD MA and you want the output as DTS-HD MA you choose the DTSHD option, so i feel we have cleared that one up. (But i must mention that when i did a BD with clown bd and audio as unconverted, to create the same file size and name with HdBrStreamExtractor the option was DTS not DTSHD. But that could be something in clown bd i did wrong.)

Both programs use eac3to for the work, so both should be able to do the same thing, but it'd also depend on them both being updated and using the same version of eac3to, I guess. Selecting an option with one program may use a different eac3to command line than the other and therefore eac3to will do something different. The only way to know for sure would be to look at the log file for each program to see what eac3to command line was used. If the core is being extracted, then -core probably should be in the command line somewhere. I don't use ClownBD so I'm guessing, but it appears HdBrStreamExtractor worked differently at some stage. I couldn't find a changelog for the standalone version of HdBrStreamExtractor, so I went through the MeGUI changelog and found this:

- [HDBDStreamExtractor] DTS output type option for DTS-MA or DTS-HR extracts only the core DTS track. Feature Request #2695340

How it worked before then I'm not sure, and now I'm starting to wonder if the standalone HdBrStreamExtractor and the version built into MeGUI always work the same way. As far as I know HdBrStreamExtractor was originally intended to part of MeGUI but was also released as a standalone application, but I don't know if modifications to the way one works are automatically applied to the other. When it comes to extracting either DTS HD or just the core they appear to, but I don't have anything with DTS HD to use for testing.

I found this regarding ClownBD:

Audio

• Extract True-HD

• Extract LPCM

• Extract AC3 core (from True-HD) or DTS Core (From DTS-MA)

• Convert audio to AC3/DTS (Optionally Choose bitrate)

• Change language of audio/subtitle stream

• Change order of audio/subtitle stream automatically based on preferences, and manual override

Maybe it's out of date, but the ability to extract DTS HD isn't specifically mentioned, only the ability to extract the core. If that's correct, I don't know why, but from your description it sounds like ClownBD only extracted the core in your test. Unfortunately I don't have a disc with DTS HD handy so I can't test any of this myself, and as I said I never keep the DTS audio. If anything I convert it to AAC while it's being extracted, so when it comes to extracting DTS untouched I've not paid much attention.
If in doubt, check the HdBrStreamExtractor log file (I assume it creates one as the version built into MeGUI does) and if eac3to is doing the work it'll probably create a log file of it's own. If you're not sure what's going on, posting the log file(s) should hopefully allow someone to tell you.

So with all that said and done i will belive that the following options will give me the audio untouched and original.

DTS-HD MA - DTSHD
LPCM - WAVE
Dolby True HD/AC3 - THD/AC3

Does that about sound correct for you?

Yes. To the best of my knowledge, if you select the same option as the source audio you'll always get the original audio, untouched.