Weird "dancing lines" on edges of my video

[cfelicio]

Hello All,

I just bought a Panasonic AG-1970 of Fleabay, and although the seller said everything is working well, I noticed something strange on videos played using it. I'm adding a sample, notice on the edged of the towel, there are "dancing lines" appearing.

At first I believed those to be because of the interlacing, but I deinterlaced the video and they didn't go away. I also noticed them even on static scenes, with absolutely nothing moving, except the lines.

Is the Panasonic defective? The TBC is on btw (I tried with it off, no difference, with TBC the image gets a bit darker).

If I remember correctly, my superold JVC S3500U didn't have this behavior!

Thanks for your help!

[cfelicio]

I ended up returning this VCR due to this issue. I'm glad I did. While I wait to buy another one (trying to grab a SR-V10u), I found a sony vhs on the trash, with the power cord cut, and decided to pick it up and try to "revive" it.

Surprisingly it works, and doesn't exhibit the "dancing lines", just regular interlacing, that can be removed. I'm hoping the quality will be a bit better with the SR-V10u

[jagabo]

The "dancing lines" is horizontal time base jitter. All VHS decks will exhibit this to some extent unless they have a line time base corrector (even then there will be a little residual jitter). I seem to recall the AG-1970's TBC doesn't work well. Some decks with line TBC:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/230650-Confused-Why-a-VCR-with-TBC-if-separate-TBC-needed-anyway

[cfelicio]

Interesting, thanks for the clarification! I hope the next one I get handles this better

[jagabo]

I seem to have remembered incorrectly. Many people like the AG-1970:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-%28S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional...light=1970+tbc

[cfelicio]

I think I just got a defective one, as turning on the TBC did nothing

[Sainsbo_McManus]

Which Sony model did you find ? You could consider using it and feeding the output through an old DVD recorder with built in line TBC (e.g. Panasonic ES10).

Although people tend to recommend JVC/Panasonic, Sony VCRs are my first preference for capturing VHS.

While mine (Sony SE800) lacks a TBC, it is otherwise built like a tank and gives far more stable playback (far less vertical jumping/rolling) on old tapes than either of my JVCs (6700 and 8700). Perhaps the transport in the Sony is better made/designed.

The SE800 also manages to scrape more detail off the tapes than either JVC - I think I remember reading that some VCRs use narrower gap video heads for increased sensitivity, which may explain the grainier image output. Neat Video deals with that.

It also cleanly plays certain flaky tapes that exhibit wild chroma flickering on both JVCs.

The only real caveat is that Sony VCRs have an adaptive sharpening circuit akin to an unsharp mask filter, seemingly designed to apply sharpening at a frequency best suited to making old/worn VHS look a bit more vivid, less flat and dead.

The Sony sharpening really helps on old tapes (IMHO) but the sharpening cannot be turned off (although it is apparently only applied by the deck to old tapes where the image has softened with age) and some would find it excessive. There is a further, separate digital sharpening feature ("Reality Regenerator") which is rubbish and can be switched off. Sharpening on my Panasonic 660 is useless - it seems to just sharpen the noise.

So don't dump that Sony just yet !

[cfelicio]

It's a Sony slv-n77, I think a very basic model.

As for the DVD Recorder, I got a Panasonic DMR-E55, does that have the same frame sync as the ES10?

I already ordered the sr-v10u, so once it is here, I will definitely compare the workflows and see what gives better results.

I also have an old jvc s3500u back at home, and can be used as another one to compare to!

Cheers!

[jagabo]

Here's a post I made using a Panasonic ES15 passthrough for its TBC:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-wh...=1#post1983288

There are posts by others with other DVD recorders there too.

[Sainsbo_McManus]

It's a Sony slv-n77, I think a very basic model.

As for the DVD Recorder, I got a Panasonic DMR-E55, does that have the same frame sync as the ES10?

I already ordered the sr-v10u, so once it is here, I will definitely compare the workflows and see what gives better results.

I have an ES10 and an E50. The E50 is an older model, I seem to recall very similar to your E55. They both are able to improve the stability of the image (less vertical rolling/flicker). They may share some hardware because the line TBC performance seems the same to my eye, although I have not done any test-card style tests. The ES10 added subtle input noise reduction, which can be switched off.

Your Sony may be a completely different creature to mine, of course. I also forgot to mention that my SE800 always boosts the contrast, crushing highlights. It's the only real shortcoming of the deck in my view. Not sure if shadows are crushed. Would be interesting to see comparative frame grabs from your captures when you receive your JVC.