Can't shrink/re-encode video to original specs

[XyBeRz]

Ok, I'm not sure if the title is even correct in technical terms but I'm hoping you guys understand.

I'm using a program called ArcSoft TotalMedia Extreme 2 to convert videos I captured from a Hauppauge HD PVR. The original files I captured is about 1.6GB - 2GB+ for a TV show I wanna be able to watch later on.

I used the MediaInfo application to get the specifics on the coding of the video which I shrink down to about 360MB or so. This is the info that was pulled from my older file which I converted some time back:

ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 21mn 29s
Bit rate : 1 845 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 404 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.212
Stream size : 284 MiB (88%)
Writing library : x264 core 112 r1834 a51816a
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=2 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=1845 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.41 / aq=1:1.00


This below is the new file and has a different resolution and the application won't let me make 720x404. Only 720x480

ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L1.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=31
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 21mn 7s
Bit rate : 2 048 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Minimum frame rate : 29.944 fps
Maximum frame rate : 30.003 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.198
Stream size : 309 MiB (89%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-07-07 18:47:59
Tagged date : UTC 2013-07-07 18:47:59

I see a bunch of different info and I want to make my newly converted videos like the one above. I'm assuming it's the codec that's installed which seems to be the default ArcSoft version. Not sure which version and where to get the original codec I used to get the file to be the same as before.

[DB83]

Post the mediainfo report of the original capture NOT the converted video.

[T_Jet]

Width : 720 pixels
Height : 404 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9

This below is the new file and has a different resolution and the application won't let me make 720x404. Only 720x480

Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2

What are the aspect ratios of the originals? Does the source of the second file have black bars on the side and is the program automatically cropping?

[XyBeRz]

Here's the MediaInfo from the original 1.6GB file that I'm coverting it down from.

ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=32
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 23mn 11s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 10.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 20.0 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Original width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Original height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Minimum frame rate : 29.944 fps
Maximum frame rate : 29.973 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.978
Stream size : 1.64 GiB (98%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-04-30 07:04:19
Tagged date : UTC 2011-04-30 07:04:19
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

[XyBeRz]

Width : 720 pixels
Height : 404 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9

This below is the new file and has a different resolution and the application won't let me make 720x404. Only 720x480

Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2

What are the aspect ratios of the originals? Does the source of the second file have black bars on the side and is the program automatically cropping?

There's black bars on the sides of both files after it's been shrunk down in size, but the older file with the 720x404 resolution file will cover the whole screen when maximized. The 720x480 file will still have black bars on the sides when maximized and that's what I'm trying to get rid of. I prefer it to look like the 720x404 version.

Also inside the program, I have it to encode it to 16:9 and don't know why it would make it 3:2. There's only 4:3 and 16:9 options that can be chosen from.

[T_Jet]

If I understand correctly the original has black bars on the side and is 16:9.

Not familiar with the program you're using but I'd say that it has automatic cropping turned on. You need to turn it off and make sure any cropping settings are 0.

[XyBeRz]

If I understand correctly the original has black bars on the side and is 16:9.

Not familiar with the program you're using but I'd say that it has automatic cropping turned on. You need to turn it off and make sure any cropping settings are 0.

There are very few settings you can select from and there's no advanced menu either. I wish I could do what you say but there's no option. I'm assuming it's the difference codec? Also the original won't display properly on the computer since it's full 1080i resolution. VLC and other media players will only play about a quarter of the full picture but the program can fully display the whole video since I have to edit out the commercials.

[DB83]

I guess that this program just takes the AR details of the original and plants them in to the new video.

It seems that your capture was 720*480 so that is what you got. Maybe the capture settings were wrong. There is no flag either 4:3 or 16:9 which is what you seem to suggest is what you expected.

You could probably rescue the recording but will have to use other software. It would be useful if you could upload a short example of that new recording.

[XyBeRz]

I guess that this program just takes the AR details of the original and plants them in to the new video.

It seems that your capture was 720*480 so that is what you got. Maybe the capture settings were wrong. There is no flag either 4:3 or 16:9 which is what you seem to suggest is what you expected.

You could probably rescue the recording but will have to use other software. It would be useful if you could upload a short example of that new recording.

Capture is at 1920 x 1080 and that's probably the reason why I can't view it on my monitor properly unless I run it thru the ArcSoft software for editing. Then I'm able to see the whole video and edit the commercials out.

See the odd thing is that I used this EXACT same software to convert my first video into 720x404 from the large files. They're typically all the same with the exact same settings when encoded thru the Hauppauge HD PVR. I just run the software that was included and it captures at 1080i. I then proceeded to encode and shrink these files into the same format but different resolution to get the files down way smaller. What I can't understand is why I can't get it the same way as before. I'm only assuming it's because of the codec which was used and I can see was isom according to GSpot.

isom: MP4 Base Media v1 [IS0 14496-12:2003]
- iso2: MP4 Base Media v2 [ISO 14496-12:2005]
- avc1: MP4 Base w/ AVC ext [ISO 14496-12:2005]
- mp41: MP4 v1 [ISO 14496-1:ch13]
Recommended Display Size: 720 x 404
Created: 1970 Jan 01 14:00:00
Modified: 1970 Jan 01 14:00:00


Then the newly shrunken video now shows
mp41: MP4 v1 [ISO 14496-1:ch13]
- ismo: <unknown>
Recommended Display Size: 720 x 480
Created: 2013 Jul 08 08:47:59
Modified: 2013 Jul 08 08:47:59

And this is the original 1.6GB file. Just a note, the top two shrunken files are NOT the same original video source. The bottom file which is 720x480 is from the big 1.6GB file above. The first original 720x404 file is from another episode which I recorded and encoded with the exact same program but just the other year back.

[DB83]

Well in the mediainfo report as posted you have two width/height sets. The width of the frame says 720 whereas the 'original width' says 1920.

If you can not upload a short example of this video then no one can really tell what is going on here.

My guess is you were receiving a 1920*1080 stream but inadvertingly recorded it as 720*480 SD letter-boxed. If that is so you can edit it and crop out the 38 lines top and 38 lines bottom to give you a 720 * 404 frame.

[XyBeRz]

Is there any free app that I can use to trim it? I used AVIDemux and it changed the resolution down to:

ID : 0
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=32
Codec ID : H264
Duration : 11s 512ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 9 396 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 20.0 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Original width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Original height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.907
Stream size : 12.9 MiB (96%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

I want something, hopefully free and easy to use to make a 10 second clip for you to see.

[XyBeRz]

Ok, here's what I see when I play the "large" 1.7GB file which is the original size when captured.

Then the second picture is the size after it was shrunk to about 323MB.

Please keep in mind this is not the same episode. It's just used for size reference because I no longer have to original large file for the one that has been shrunk down already.

Oh and at the bottom with the last screen shot, is a screen shot of the newest conversion.

See the size difference? When I maximize the player on the 2nd pic in the middle, it will fill the screen with NO black bars. When I maximize the player on the 3rd pic, it will have black bars on the sides.

I don't like those black bars at all. It doesn't seem to lose any sides of the video when maximized on the 2nd pic.

[DB83]

Ok. Not what I was expecting.

This looks almost ok. It is a 4:3 transmission in a HD frame. The active image is not intended to 'fill' the screen. If it did then the picture would look squashed. The circles do not look quite right(slightly tall) but the fault is probably with the transmission.

The middle one is closer to 16:9 but it is not a good sample to see if this is correct.

You may not like the black bars but that is the correct way to show this.

[XyBeRz]

Ok. Not what I was expecting.

This looks almost ok. It is a 4:3 transmission in a HD frame. The active image is not intended to 'fill' the screen. If it did then the picture would look squashed. The circles do not look quite right(slightly tall) but the fault is probably with the transmission.

The middle one is closer to 16:9 but it is not a good sample to see if this is correct.

You may not like the black bars but that is the correct way to show this.

I understand but I want to get the same resolution as the middle pic which is 720x404. I tried encoding using AVIMudex, and it didn't work at all. It gave a funky resolution and the picture is like the original large file size. I forced the 720x404 resolution in the options thinking it would work. Sadly it was a no go.

Strange how hard it is to get back to what I was doing before. There's gotta be a way since it was possible before. I don't see why I can't do it now. It was only about 1-2 years ago when I made the smaller file size with the 720x404 resolution.

[DB83]

As I see it, the bottom line is that you can not achieve that with this sample without a lot of resizing etc.

Ask yourself a quick question. Has anything changed with the broadcaster since that last program ? For example, have they changed from SD to HD.

The middle sample looks more like a 16:9 SD transmission which will naturally resize to 720*404. Now you have a 1920*1080 frame. You can still resize that to 720*704 but you could end up with black bars on all sides and not just left and right. The AR of the active image will still not be the equivilent of 720*404. If you want that you must attempt to resize to 854*480 and then to 720 * 404 but I do not think that will work with this unless you first trim out all the black bars between the 1920 width.

[XyBeRz]

As I see it, the bottom line is that you can not achieve that with this sample without a lot of resizing etc.

Ask yourself a quick question. Has anything changed with the broadcaster since that last program ? For example, have they changed from SD to HD.

The middle sample looks more like a 16:9 SD transmission which will naturally resize to 720*404. Now you have a 1920*1080 frame. You can still resize that to 720*704 but you could end up with black bars on all sides and not just left and right. The AR of the active image will still not be the equivilent of 720*404. If you want that you must attempt to resize to 854*480 and then to 720 * 404 but I do not think that will work with this unless you first trim out all the black bars between the 1920 width.

Do you mean the TV station? These videos have all been encoded at around the same time about 1-1/2 years ago. These videos are not recent or anything. I just had them sitting on an external HDD waiting to be shrunk down since then. The original transmission was in HD since it was off the HD Sci-Fi channel on Time Warner. So it's what ever transmission they use. I don't believe it is SD cause it looks too good of quality.

Maybe it's possible I used another program to resize it in the past? Too bad the media info software can't tell me what software was used as some do after it's been re-encoded or what not.

I'd hate to have to shrink it down to one size and then to my final one. I swore that I used only one software in the past and I thought it was the TotalMedia Extreme 2. I could be wrong on that though. Damn memory...

P.S. I contacted ArcSoft. They said the program never had the ability to convert to 720x404 so it must've been something else. But what other software could encode this properly to that size?

[DB83]

Bear in mind that 720 * 404 was NEVER the original spec.

It is a classic 16:9 conversion whether the original was SD or HD. What program could do that ? Almost anything since it is only a question of cropping the black bars that would appear if you had a 16:9 source on a 4:3 display. Put a 16:9 vid into a program such as avidemux and resize retaining the AR width @ 720 MOD 4,8 or 16 and you get a height of 704. The issue here is that you can not do that since your source is NOT 16:9

[theewizard]

never ever delete your source files
have you searched the syfy channel website to see if the show is available to stream
you could do a new capture
i would think that you could do this with virtual dub or avisynth using a script to create exactly what you want
if your creating an AVI or MP4 file

[theewizard]

every time i open your 'cut.avi' sample in vlc, it opens over size to1920*1080 not 720*480
vlc identifies it as 1920*1080, while media info ID's as 720*480
if i click fit window it then fits inside the window
i also found that the 'radar screen' in the hoover craft dash displays as an Oval unless i select aspect ratio 16:10 then it looks round

why would vlc and avidemux display as 1920*1080, is there a display aspect flag containing this info
is this where media info gets the original size information

avidemux only displays less than 1/4 of the video, from the upper right quadrant, and processes that as the full video

YET i ran a test on one of my videos 720*480, cuttin a test piece and resizing it
it displayed correctly and i was able to resize to 720*404 in avidemux, by unchecking "keep aspect"

i'm not sure what it is, but something is not right with your re-sized captures
and how can a capture resized to 720*480 have 9xxx bit rate a 383mb size for 11 seconds
maybe the way too large bitrate is part of the problem

[DB83]

Could I also ask which part of the sample should we be checking. From your stills it is the latter part and not the footage at the start.

I just wonder if your capture device/software got confused by the switch or, indeed, your capture settings were wrong.

As my friend states, mediainfo does recognise 720*480 and the flag also appears to be there ie 16:9. If that is so, the vid should display like your earlier still. However, when it is captured, the HD spec takes over and appears to cancel it.